[Videocardz] New 1080 Ti rumors

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SlickR12345

Senior member
Jan 9, 2010
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What's AMD's counterpart for the GTX 1060?
AMD's RX 470 and RX 480 are better than their more expensive counterparts. In fact AMD has won in the latest 5 games that have come out and as proven by history they are going to keep on winning more and more.

I can find $170 RX 470 right now, custom versions and if I really patiently search I can find for $160 through rebates and codes.

I can also find $200 and $210 RX 480 4GB that are significantly better than the 1060 3GB in most games. While 1060 6GB is typically a little faster in older games, but slower in newer games and DX12 and Vulkan games! The average prices for the card are also around $270, while the RX 480 8GB is around $260
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
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AMD's RX 470 and RX 480 are better than their more expensive counterparts.
You made a sweeping claim: RX 470 and 480 are 40% to 50% faster than their counterparts.

I asked you what is the counterpart of GTX 1060. Show me the AMD counterpart to GTX 1060 that is 40% to 50% faster than this card.
 
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nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,762
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You made a sweeping claim: RX 470 and 480 are 40% to 50% faster than their counterparts.

I asked you what is the counterpart of GTX 1060. Show me the AMD counterpart to GTX 1060 that is 40% to 50% faster than this card.

A: He referring to the prior gen AMD 370/380 and you know it. Stop trying to further this junk. B: This is about GP102 and not 480 vs 1060. Both of you go find a room.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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A: He referring to the prior gen AMD 370/380 and you know it. Stop trying to further this junk. B: This is about GP102 and not 480 vs 1060. Both of you go find a room.
Actually I didn't know that, since his claim was in response to a Polaris/Pascal comparison made by twiceman. Now that you pointed it out, my apologies for the pointless derail.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
I think the statement is quite obvious. The efficiency of pascal means that a chip pushed to the limit will do better than the competition pushed to the limit unless the competition uses more power. The only way for a 1080ti to be dethroned is by a less power efficient part.

I don't think anything is dethroning the 1080ti. At best, we'll get more options down the line.

This is a time value of gaming question.
 

kraatus77

Senior member
Aug 26, 2015
266
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101
^If you have doubts of vega being a power hog, because p10 is. just look at Hawaii and Fiji. one had hbm just like vega will have.

i have no doubts they can touch 1070's p/w with HBM2. and by touch i mean within 10%. which isn't that bad considering they didn't spend billions on it.

on topic, i guess 1080ti will face same fate as 780. means full gp102v will launch later. maybe in form of refresh ?
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
257
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That probably very much depends on how long they've got until Volta is going to roll out.

If they've got to bridge all the way until Spring 2018 then they'll do fancy stuff with Pascal, if its coming earlier than that then there probably isn't time to make it worthwhile.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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^If you have doubts of vega being a power hog, because p10 is. just look at Hawaii and Fiji. one had hbm just like vega will have.

i have no doubts they can touch 1070's p/w with HBM2. and by touch i mean within 10%. which isn't that bad considering they didn't spend billions on it.

on topic, i guess 1080ti will face same fate as 780. means full gp102v will launch later. maybe in form of refresh ?

NV will have HBM2 as well.
 

kraatus77

Senior member
Aug 26, 2015
266
59
101
i was comparing vega/1070, 1070 doesn't even have G5x let alone HBM2, and by the time they do get HBM2 amd will be on new arch and or something new on memory side with navi.(pascal is not really BW starved to gain from having HBM2) so that won't be competing with vega anyway.

and tbh, i think only titan gpu will get HBM2, normal x80/ti won't. because it's something they can make huge money and their target audience will pay for it happily.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
Hmm,

I was thinking $850 FE and $750 MSRP. 1080/1070 MSRP only went up $50 over 980/970. $100 over 980 Ti seems in line with this, especially since the Titan X went up $200. Fits in between 1080 and TXP rather well.

Despite AMD floundering, if Nvidia want to get 980 Ti users who are disappointed with 1080 as a meaningful upgrade option to hop onto Pascal, $1,000 is not going to do it.

We shall see.
 

Hi-Fi Man

Senior member
Oct 19, 2013
601
120
106
This is getting ridiculous. Four or five years ago we had a fully enabled top end GPU that sold for $500 (GeForce GTX 580). Now if we want a fully enabled top end GPU we can't get it in the form of a GeForce SKU and the next best thing is a partially disabled GPU that retails for $1,200!!! No wonder nVIDIA is making record profits.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Yeah I dont think the perf/w comparison will be 1 to 1 between Polaris to Vega. Wide + HBM clearly greatly improved Fiji's perf/w vs Hawaii on the same mature node. Vega has more mature node (and if it really is fabbed on TMSC, a better node altogether) versus the early GloFo 14nm Polaris is on, HBM and width working to its advantage. The question becomes how hard to they push clocks on it.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
This is getting ridiculous. Four or five years ago we had a fully enabled top end GPU that sold for $500 (GeForce GTX 580). Now if we want a fully enabled top end GPU we can't get it in the form of a GeForce SKU and the next best thing is a partially disabled GPU that retails for $1,200!!! No wonder nVIDIA is making record profits.

Lack of competition will do that.

I don't think 1080 Ti will launch at $1000 MSRP.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Hmm,

I was thinking $850 FE and $750 MSRP. 1080/1070 MSRP only went up $50 over 980/970. $100 over 980 Ti seems in line with this, especially since the Titan X went up $200. Fits in between 1080 and TXP rather well.

Despite AMD floundering, if Nvidia want to get 980 Ti users who are disappointed with 1080 as a meaningful upgrade option to hop onto Pascal, $1,000 is not going to do it.

We shall see.

$750 isn't going to do it either, not for a cut down of a cut down of a Maxwell refresh chip. Looks like big volta for me, because I won't want to pay the $850 for a mid range volta either. Prices keep climbing. I'm dying to know where it will stop. At what point will people stop buying GPU's? Well, I won't be paying the $700+ they are certain to ask for this 1080ti, so I answered my own question. I paid $650 for my 980ti's and I won't be paying more than that for a replacement. If they can't keep it at $650 or less, they can quite simply shove it.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
This is getting ridiculous. Four or five years ago we had a fully enabled top end GPU that sold for $500 (GeForce GTX 580). Now if we want a fully enabled top end GPU we can't get it in the form of a GeForce SKU and the next best thing is a partially disabled GPU that retails for $1,200!!! No wonder nVIDIA is making record profits.

Then again, nobody has to spend 1200 to get incredible performance from either party. 480 is a great Card for what it is and it's performance segment. 1060 is right there along side it. And 1070 is 380 to 420 depending on the o/c model you get and it performs nicely at the highest candy settings. Why do any of us need a TitanXP? Or any other 1000+ GPU? Answer. We don't.
 

kraatus77

Senior member
Aug 26, 2015
266
59
101
^ can't believe i'm reading that. you aren't the one who decides what someone needs. because not everyone can get it for free unlike others.

Infraction issued for derailing thread.

At least he openly discloses it.

-- stahlhart
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I expect that the 1080Ti will go for $999 for the FE card. And, I suspect that NV may cut other AIBs out of the fun - at least initially. Look at their recent balance sheet, price hike history and lack of competition. If NV can get $1k for that card, they will.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
$1000??

Jesus. I really hate myself for not getting to the $650 980ti. The best price / perf "flagship" gpu in God knows how long and for how long and I miss it.
We may never see high end prices go back to even some remote sense of normality at this rate. Feels like it's just going to spiral. 2000 series launch is worrying me now for prices on the high end.

That's one way to look at it but I disagree. 980Ti was a great videocard but with the new bifuracting a generation, you don't lose much if you just upgrade the following year to the next architecture - aka GTX1070 is a great price/performance stop-gap between now and Volta. 980Ti and Fury X launched in no-man's land time, exactly the fate the OG Titan suffered and which I warned about.

I am starting to see a trend that for 1080p/1440p gaming it takes about 1-1.5 years before the flagship GPU's power is really utilized and worthwhile. In practice it means by the time 980Ti's GPU power is actually needed, we have a GTX1070 that is better (lower power usage, Async, more VRAM) and costs a fraction of the price. I could have picked up a $650 Fury X or 980Ti but instead by the time AAA games demanded that level of power, I was able to pick up a couple Asus Strix 1070s for the price of a single 980Ti. That's a win-win for the consumer. Ever since the bifuracting a generation strategy kicked in, this has repeated twice now. First, with $700 Kepler 780Ti -> $330 970 and now with $650 980Ti -> $380 1070. Knowing that Volta is scheduled for 2018 and it should be a new architecture compared to Maxwell and Pascal, it stands to reason Volta x70 GV104 card priced at $400 should be better than GP102 1080Ti.

I think these $800-1200 flagships are worth buying for someone gaming at 1440p 100-165Hz or 4K gamer. Otherwise, they are almost always a waste of $. You regret not purchasing 980Ti during the summer of 2015 but what's wrong with just buying a GTX1070 now for $370, selling it for $200 in 1.5-2 years from now and getting a $400 Volta x70 card/AMD equivalent?

You know how $550 980 wasn't worth its price as 2 years from its launch we can readily purchase $180-200 RX 480 4GB/GTX1060 3GB, $225-240 RX 480 8GB/GTX1060 6GB. To this day I believe it's better to buy GPUs more often. It's not financially advantageous to purchase a $700-800 flagship and keep it for 2, especially not 3-5 years.

Once next gen consoles release in 2019-2020, everything released in 2017 will be completely outdated for that console generation. That means there is even less logical explanation to "future-proof" with 2017 $800 flagship. Now that we've seen how X1950XTX and 7900GTX failed during Xbox 360/PS3 generation and how GTX680/HD7970Ghz already require major compromise in gaming at 1080p just 3 years into this console generation, you can be assured that ANY GPU released in 2017 will be completely outdated for the duration PS5/XB2 console generation.

Think about it, November 2013 is when NV launched $700 780Ti 3GB. Today, GTX1060 3GB (or RX 470 4GB) is better in every way and can be readily found for $160 - $185.

The more expensive next generation GPUs get, the more they will depreciate in value (or look terrible in price/performance) when the next generation arrives. The best way to buy flagship cards now is to resell them ASAP before a next series is coming, which means dumping GTX1080 right before 1080Ti is released, or risk losing a large loss in resale value. I suppose it was always like this but we got spoiled temporarily by HD4870, HD5850/5870, HD4890/GTX275, GTX470/570 era where literally flagship die GPUs cost $250-350 max. Even R9 290 was a gift at $399. That's akin to selling Titan XP level chip for $399 today since we are talking about a cut-down flagship die of that generation.

If NVIDIA can sell a GTX 1080 Ti for $799 in place of a GTX 1080 for $599, then that'd be a big win for them.

Why wait?

GTX1080 is already $580, and comes with GoW4 that can be resold for at least $20. Finally we are getting closer to GTX980's MSRP, and a far cry from the FE $700 pricing that made no sense.

I think it'd be more effective from a business point of view if NV released 10-15% faster refresh GTX2070/2080/2080Ti series since that would allow them to keep prices at similar levels and introduce 2080Ti GP102 at $899 or even $999. Then if AMD brings competition with Vega, NV can always drop prices. Since consumers have shown a willingness to pay $600-700 for mid-range die GTX1080, a 10-15% faster GTX2080 can easily exist at $699 FE pricing. If NV launches 2070/2080/2080Ti in 1Q 2017, it may still beat AMD to market and get a lot of additional momentum from the already wildly popular GTX1060/1070/1080 cards.

Lack of competition will do that.

That's only a partial explanation. There has been FAR less competition in the CPU space than there is in the GPU space in the last 5 years. MicroCenter has i7-6700K for $259.99 and i7-6800K for $329.99, both prices which is lower after adjusted for inflation than the MSRP of January 2011 i7-2600K. If Intel priced i7-6700K at $634 (double the price of i7-2600K), I would simply refuse to buy it. Lack of competition alone doesn't explain the willingness of so many consumers to pay double for the same historical tiers. There is a lot more to it like prices of high-end audiophile headphones have increased 2-3X in the last 5 years despite the most fierce competition.

When HiFiMan sold HE-300 for $249, we now know they still make a profit at $99. We also know that Sennheiser's HD650s which debuted at $550 are profitable even at $199.

With NV, what they are doing is following the foot-path of the overpriced audiophile industry, and sprinkling it with Apple marketing, creating an emotional attachment and desirability of the product.

Had Titan XP sold for only $499 like the GTX580, it would have never been as desirable to PC gamers and as a result the $379-449 GTX1070 and $699 GTX1080 wouldn't have looked like such an amazing value relative to the Titan XP. NV still hasn't matched Apple though as Apple charges $200 for an upgrade form an i5 to an outdated architecture generation i7 in the iMac when the entire i7-6700K costs $260 at MC. Oh, let's not forget $200 for 8GB of DDR4 memory upgrade. NV still has room to raise prices even more during Volta as Pascal is wildly successful despite record GPU prices per each GPU tier. Just goes to show that PC gamers are willing to pay even more. If mid-range die 1080 FE sold like hot cakes for $700, a $900 1080Ti will be instantly sold out by the same people who are about to dump GTX1080s on the used market. That's the missing link in NV's strategy -- since next series makes the old series obsolete and thus lose a huge amount of resale value, it will make it too costly to buy $700 cards and NOT upgrade to the next series. This gives NV leverage to price 1080Ti/2080Ti above GTX1080.
 
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SlickR12345

Senior member
Jan 9, 2010
542
44
91
www.clubvalenciacf.com
For some reason people go caveman dumb when it comes to buying Nvidia overpriced cards. I mean when the Titan Z turd sold thousands of units at such retarded prices, then there is no hope!

People will literally sell their houses and livers to buy overpriced Nvidia turds!


Trolling is not allowed
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator
 
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Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,866
699
136
That's one way to look at it but I disagree. 980Ti was a great videocard but with the new bifuracting a generation, you don't lose much if you just upgrade the following year to the next architecture - aka GTX1070 is a great price/performance stop-gap between now and Volta. 980Ti and Fury X launched in no-man's land time, exactly the fate the OG Titan suffered and which I warned about.

I am starting to see a trend that for 1080p/1440p gaming it takes about 1-1.5 years before the flagship GPU's power is really utilized and worthwhile. In practice it means by the time 980Ti's GPU power is actually needed, we have a GTX1070 that is better (lower power usage, Async, more VRAM) and costs a fraction of the price. I could have picked up a $650 Fury X or 980Ti but instead by the time AAA games demanded that level of power, I was able to pick up a couple Asus Strix 1070s for the price of a single 980Ti. That's a win-win for the consumer. Ever since the bifuracting a generation strategy kicked in, this has repeated twice now. First, with $700 Kepler 780Ti -> $330 970 and now with $650 980Ti -> $380 1070. Knowing that Volta is scheduled for 2018 and it should be a new architecture compared to Maxwell and Pascal, it stands to reason Volta x70 GV104 card priced at $400 should be better than GP102 1080Ti.

I think these $800-1200 flagships are worth buying for someone gaming at 1440p 100-165Hz or 4K gamer. Otherwise, they are almost always a waste of $. You regret not purchasing 980Ti during the summer of 2015 but what's wrong with just buying a GTX1070 now for $370, selling it for $200 in 1.5-2 years from now and getting a $400 Volta x70 card/AMD equivalent?

You know how $550 980 wasn't worth its price as 2 years from its launch we can readily purchase $180-200 RX 480 4GB/GTX1060 3GB, $225-240 RX 480 8GB/GTX1060 6GB. To this day I believe it's better to buy GPUs more often. It's not financially advantageous to purchase a $700-800 flagship and keep it for 2, especially not 3-5 years.

Once next gen consoles release in 2019-2020, everything released in 2017 will be completely outdated for that console generation. That means there is even less logical explanation to "future-proof" with 2017 $800 flagship. Now that we've seen how X1950XTX and 7900GTX failed during Xbox 360/PS3 generation and how GTX680/HD7970Ghz already require major compromise in gaming at 1080p just 3 years into this console generation, you can be assured that ANY GPU released in 2017 will be completely outdated for the duration PS5/XB2 console generation.

Think about it, November 2013 is when NV launched $700 780Ti 3GB. Today, GTX1060 3GB (or RX 470 4GB) is better in every way and can be readily found for $160 - $185.

The more expensive next generation GPUs get, the more they will depreciate in value (or look terrible in price/performance) when the next generation arrives. The best way to buy flagship cards now is to resell them ASAP before a next series is coming, which means dumping GTX1080 right before 1080Ti is released, or risk losing a large loss in resale value. I suppose it was always like this but we got spoiled temporarily by HD4870, HD5850/5870, HD4890/GTX275, GTX470/570 era where literally flagship die GPUs cost $250-350 max. Even R9 290 was a gift at $399. That's akin to selling Titan XP level chip for $399 today since we are talking about a cut-down flagship die of that generation.



GTX1080 is already $580, and comes with GoW4 that can be resold for at least $20. Finally we are getting closer to GTX980's MSRP, and a far cry from the FE $700 pricing that made no sense.

I think it'd be more effective from a business point of view if NV released 10-15% faster refresh GTX2070/2080/2080Ti series since that would allow them to keep prices at similar levels and introduce 2080Ti GP102 at $899 or even $999. Then if AMD brings competition with Vega, NV can always drop prices. Since consumers have shown a willingness to pay $600-700 for mid-range die GTX1080, a 10-15% faster GTX2080 can easily exist at $699 FE pricing. If NV launches 2070/2080/2080Ti in 1Q 2017, it may still beat AMD to market and get a lot of additional momentum from the already wildly popular GTX1060/1070/1080 cards.



That's only a partial explanation. There has been FAR less competition in the CPU space than there is in the GPU space in the last 5 years. MicroCenter has i7-6700K for $259.99 and i7-6800K for $329.99, both prices which is lower after adjusted for inflation than the MSRP of January 2011 i7-2600K. If Intel priced i7-6700K at $634 (double the price of i7-2600K), I would simply refuse to buy it. Lack of competition alone doesn't explain the willingness of so many consumers to pay double for the same historical tiers. There is a lot more to it like prices of high-end audiophile headphones have increased 2-3X in the last 5 years despite the most fierce competition.

When HiFiMan sold HE-300 for $249, we now know they still make a profit at $99. We also know that Sennheiser's HD650s which debuted at $550 are profitable even at $199.

With NV, what they are doing is following the foot-path of the overpriced audiophile industry, and sprinkling it with Apple marketing, creating an emotional attachment and desirability of the product.

Had Titan XP sold for only $499 like the GTX580, it would have never been as desirable to PC gamers and as a result the $379-449 GTX1070 and $699 GTX1080 wouldn't have looked like such an amazing value relative to the Titan XP. NV still hasn't matched Apple though as Apple charges $200 for an upgrade form an i5 to an outdated architecture generation i7 in the iMac when the entire i7-6700K costs $260 at MC. Oh, let's not forget $200 for 8GB of DDR4 memory upgrade. NV still has room to raise prices even more during Volta as Pascal is wildly successful despite record GPU prices per each GPU tier. Just goes to show that PC gamers are willing to pay even more. If mid-range die 1080 FE sold like hot cakes for $700, a $900 1080Ti will be instantly sold out by the same people who are about to dump GTX1080s on the used market. That's the missing link in NV's strategy -- since next series makes the old series obsolete and thus lose a huge amount of resale value, it will make it too costly to buy $700 cards and NOT upgrade to the next series. This gives NV leverage to price 1080Ti/2080Ti above GTX1080.
i dont agree.Big SKU are always better because they have huge OC headroom.You bet that after you oc 1080TI to 2Ghz it will be faster than GTX1070 SLI and faster than volta x70 card.980Ti is almost 2 years old and After OC it is faster than 1070 and its still TOP performance after 2 years..Where is GTX970?That crap is almost dead and its only 9 months older than 980TI.Or where is now GTX670 vs 780TI?If you buy BIG SKU you gain 30-40% performance from OC for free.Small SKU have 10-12% oc headroom thats why BIG SKU is just way way way better.
780TI still have good performance.
980TI oc still faster than 1070 OC
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
For some reason people go caveman dumb when it comes to buying Nvidia overpriced cards. I mean when the Titan Z turd sold thousands of units at such retarded prices, then there is no hope!

People will literally sell their houses and livers to buy overpriced Nvidia turds!

Why are you insulting NVIDIA buyers? Just because YOU think something is overpriced doesn't meant that it is.

I paid a full $1200 for my Titan X and it really is the perfect 144hz/1440p card (especially since I've overclocked it to run at ~2ghz boost) no other single GPU can deliver that kind of experience. Not even close.

So tell me why it's overpriced if it delivers a unique level of performance/capability?
 
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Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Why are you insulting NVIDIA buyers? Just because YOU think something is overpriced doesn't meant that it is.

I paid a full $1200 for my Titan X and it really is the perfect 144hz/1440p card (especially since I've overclocked it to run at ~2ghz boost) no other single GPU can deliver that kind of experience. Not even close.

So tell me why it's overpriced if it delivers a unique level of performance/capability?

just another troll, report and ignore
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Depending on the release of this card, NV might miss me regardless of price. I can justify $1K for a stupid purchase once a year, if I space it out enough to not feel like I'm just throwing money away (yes I'm aware to some it is), but with G-Sync...even 35 FPS feels fine. Haha.

Am playing SWTOR at 6880x2880 at like 45 FPS and it feels amazing. Console ports? Forget about it!
 

Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
3,691
21
81
Depending on the release of this card, NV might miss me regardless of price. I can justify $1K for a stupid purchase once a year, if I space it out enough to not feel like I'm just throwing money away (yes I'm aware to some it is), but with G-Sync...even 35 FPS feels fine. Haha.

Am playing SWTOR at 6880x2880 at like 45 FPS and it feels amazing. Console ports? Forget about it!
Damn rail tell me which server you are on and your toon name, I am on JC and EH atm
 
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