Vince Carter teams up with Dwight Howard

[Storm]

Originally posted by: sactoking
The trade was stupid. The Magic got rid of Alston and Lee, two solid contributors, for Carter. Vince Carter is done, stick a fork in him. When he was in his prime, he was the best slasher in the game. But he could never shoot, never played defense, and wasn't a solid rebounder or passer. Now? He still can't shoot, doesn't play defense, and he can't get to the hole nearly as well. Oh, and he has to jack up 25 shots a game to be effective.

You're going to add that to a team that has Howard whining about not enough touches, Lewis jacking up a 3 every other time down the court, and Jameer Nelson- who doesn't exactly light it up from a passing standpoint? You're going to practically guarantee that you lose Turkoglu, a good 6-10 point-forward that can play defense and rebound, was the only player who wanted to take shots at crunch time in the playoffs, and was the only guy that could create a shot for someone else.

There's a reason that guys like Vince Carter and Allen Iverson make pretty much every team they go to worse...

Get some facts straight... 4 times in the 80 games in the 2008/2009 season has he shot 25 times or more, 5 times in the previous season. For the 08/09 season he average 16.8 shot attempts per game. Go look it up on espn.com

You have to be able to shoot somewhat if you have average 23.5 points a game and not average more than 7.6 free throw attempts per game that year being 2005/2006.

Who the hell knows if Orlando is going to lose Hedo? Could they yea but guess what...

Both Hedo and Vince:

Take ill-advised shots both 2s and 3s.. Which could be off-balance, early in the shot clock, could be heat checks and don't get the rest of the guys involved. Anyone who watches either player consistently will see that. Did Hedo make more 4th quarter baskets it certainly looks like it to me. Who knows if he will be as clutch? He may be or he may not be.

But you know what Orlando gets a happy motivated Vince Carter... can he put the 27.5 ppg on 46% fg 42.5% on 3s with 5.9 reb and 4.7 assists in 57 games like in the 2004/2005 season? No way with the amount of scorers on Orlando but he may be able to shoot like he did though....

Clearly Orlando is going for it now, they overpaid to get Lewis who made 17.2 million in 08/09. He had to overpaid to get someone

He will make

18.876 million in 09/10
20.5 million in 10/11
22.1 million in 11/12
23.79 million in 12/13

Clearly the Nets are trying to relieve salary cap space and hope they get someone in the summer of 2010. Who knows if that will happen, they could end up with no one.

Courtney Lee is a young good player lets see how he turns out without all the help around him.

Alston, he is a little whiner just go play or maybe he should go back to playing for AND1


Edit

The only way imho for Orlando to be better than the Cavs would be to retain Hedo.

 

[hurricanedh34]

Originally posted by: sactoking
The trade was stupid. The Magic got rid of Alston and Lee, two solid contributors, for Carter. Vince Carter is done, stick a fork in him. When he was in his prime, he was the best slasher in the game. But he could never shoot, never played defense, and wasn't a solid rebounder or passer. Now? He still can't shoot, doesn't play defense, and he can't get to the hole nearly as well. Oh, and he has to jack up 25 shots a game to be effective.

You're going to add that to a team that has Howard whining about not enough touches, Lewis jacking up a 3 every other time down the court, and Jameer Nelson- who doesn't exactly light it up from a passing standpoint? You're going to practically guarantee that you lose Turkoglu, a good 6-10 point-forward that can play defense and rebound, (Turk) was the only player who wanted to take shots at crunch time in the playoffs, and was the only guy that could create a shot for someone else.

There's a reason that guys like Vince Carter and Allen Iverson make pretty much every team they go to worse...

Do you know anything about the Magic and basketball in general? Alston was on his way out anyways since he wants to be a starter. Courtney Lee was solid but he is too small on the defensive side for the Magic to play him with Jameer. Turk was the only guy who could create a shot for someone else? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Howard gets double teamed regularly for someone to take an open shot. They need a guy who can get his on and take players off the dribble. That's what they are lacking. They don't need another passer. Fully agree with Storm's response to you as well except his edit part.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: jinduy
turkoglu wants 10 mil

he's not worth 10 mil to the magic

they wouldn't have gotten past the celtics without hedo. how is he not worth 10mil when rashard is worth what, 16mil?

Originally posted by: sactoking
The trade was stupid. The Magic got rid of Alston and Lee, two solid contributors, for Carter. Vince Carter is done, stick a fork in him. When he was in his prime, he was the best slasher in the game. But he could never shoot, never played defense, and wasn't a solid rebounder or passer. Now? He still can't shoot, doesn't play defense, and he can't get to the hole nearly as well. Oh, and he has to jack up 25 shots a game to be effective.

You're going to add that to a team that has Howard whining about not enough touches, Lewis jacking up a 3 every other time down the court, and Jameer Nelson- who doesn't exactly light it up from a passing standpoint? You're going to practically guarantee that you lose Turkoglu, a good 6-10 point-forward that can play defense and rebound, was the only player who wanted to take shots at crunch time in the playoffs, and was the only guy that could create a shot for someone else.

There's a reason that guys like Vince Carter and Allen Iverson make pretty much every team they go to worse...

lolwut? oh and leave AI out of this. The sixers never surrounded AI with the right type of players since the finals team in 01.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Storm

Originally posted by: sactoking
The trade was stupid. The Magic got rid of Alston and Lee, two solid contributors, for Carter. Vince Carter is done, stick a fork in him. When he was in his prime, he was the best slasher in the game. But he could never shoot, never played defense, and wasn't a solid rebounder or passer. Now? He still can't shoot, doesn't play defense, and he can't get to the hole nearly as well. Oh, and he has to jack up 25 shots a game to be effective.

You're going to add that to a team that has Howard whining about not enough touches, Lewis jacking up a 3 every other time down the court, and Jameer Nelson- who doesn't exactly light it up from a passing standpoint? You're going to practically guarantee that you lose Turkoglu, a good 6-10 point-forward that can play defense and rebound, was the only player who wanted to take shots at crunch time in the playoffs, and was the only guy that could create a shot for someone else.

There's a reason that guys like Vince Carter and Allen Iverson make pretty much every team they go to worse...

Get some facts straight... 4 times in the 80 games in the 2008/2009 season has he shot 25 times or more, 5 times in the previous season. For the 08/09 season he average 16.8 shot attempts per game. Go look it up on espn.com

You have to be able to shoot somewhat if you have average 23.5 points a game and not average more than 7.6 free throw attempts per game that year being 2005/2006.

Who the hell knows if Orlando is going to lose Hedo? Could they yea but guess what...

Both Hedo and Vince:

Take ill-advised shots both 2s and 3s.. Which could be off-balance, early in the shot clock, could be heat checks and don't get the rest of the guys involved. Anyone who watches either player consistently will see that. Did Hedo make more 4th quarter baskets it certainly looks like it to me. Who knows if he will be as clutch? He may be or he may not be.

But you know what Orlando gets a happy motivated Vince Carter... can he put the 27.5 ppg on 46% fg 42.5% on 3s with 5.9 reb and 4.7 assists in 57 games like in the 2004/2005 season? No way with the amount of scorers on Orlando but he may be able to shoot like he did though....

Clearly Orlando is going for it now, they overpaid to get Lewis who made 17.2 million in 08/09. He had to overpaid to get someone

He will make

18.876 million in 09/10
20.5 million in 10/11
22.1 million in 11/12
23.79 million in 12/13

Clearly the Nets are trying to relieve salary cap space and hope they get someone in the summer of 2010. Who knows if that will happen, they could end up with no one.

Courtney Lee is a young good player lets see how he turns out without all the help around him.

Alston, he is a little whiner just go play or maybe he should go back to playing for AND1


Edit

The only way imho for Orlando to be better than the Cavs would be to retain Hedo.

Pretty much sums it up. Vince was putting up around 20/5/5 as an average on the Nets.
Nets will have their salary at low 20's next year for the Free agents that will be available.
Enough room to sign 2 max players

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: jinduy
turkoglu wants 10 mil

he's not worth 10 mil to the magic

if starbury, kirilenko, zach randolph, etc are making 15+, hedo sure as hell should get 10

hell, wally szcerzebak got 13...

Agreed...Turk's definitely worth $10m somewhere.

 

[actuarial]

Some serious hate for Vince here.

He is probably top five in the league at creating his own shot (be it driving or step back jumper) and he's actually a very willing passer. The biggest beef of Vince when he was on the raps was that he wasn't designed to be the MAN. Dwight is the man in ORL so it won't be a problem.

He is also EASILY one of the most clutch players in the league. He shot an eFG% of 56% of clutch jump shots this year, and even better when inside. Compare that to Mr Clutch Tukoglu who shoots an anemic 35% on clutch jump shots. NJ will have a TRUE inside outside game with Dwight/Vince. Add in Shard and Petrius and you have a VERY balanced team. Vince will also only be guarding the second best perimeter player, which is not hard for him. He can play D when he gives the effort.

Check out www.82games.com for the best individual player stats.

 

[Storm]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Storm

Originally posted by: sactoking
The trade was stupid. The Magic got rid of Alston and Lee, two solid contributors, for Carter. Vince Carter is done, stick a fork in him. When he was in his prime, he was the best slasher in the game. But he could never shoot, never played defense, and wasn't a solid rebounder or passer. Now? He still can't shoot, doesn't play defense, and he can't get to the hole nearly as well. Oh, and he has to jack up 25 shots a game to be effective.

You're going to add that to a team that has Howard whining about not enough touches, Lewis jacking up a 3 every other time down the court, and Jameer Nelson- who doesn't exactly light it up from a passing standpoint? You're going to practically guarantee that you lose Turkoglu, a good 6-10 point-forward that can play defense and rebound, was the only player who wanted to take shots at crunch time in the playoffs, and was the only guy that could create a shot for someone else.

There's a reason that guys like Vince Carter and Allen Iverson make pretty much every team they go to worse...

Get some facts straight... 4 times in the 80 games in the 2008/2009 season has he shot 25 times or more, 5 times in the previous season. For the 08/09 season he average 16.8 shot attempts per game. Go look it up on espn.com

You have to be able to shoot somewhat if you have average 23.5 points a game and not average more than 7.6 free throw attempts per game that year being 2005/2006.

Who the hell knows if Orlando is going to lose Hedo? Could they yea but guess what...

Both Hedo and Vince:

Take ill-advised shots both 2s and 3s.. Which could be off-balance, early in the shot clock, could be heat checks and don't get the rest of the guys involved. Anyone who watches either player consistently will see that. Did Hedo make more 4th quarter baskets it certainly looks like it to me. Who knows if he will be as clutch? He may be or he may not be.

But you know what Orlando gets a happy motivated Vince Carter... can he put the 27.5 ppg on 46% fg 42.5% on 3s with 5.9 reb and 4.7 assists in 57 games like in the 2004/2005 season? No way with the amount of scorers on Orlando but he may be able to shoot like he did though....

Clearly Orlando is going for it now, they overpaid to get Lewis who made 17.2 million in 08/09. He had to overpaid to get someone

He will make

18.876 million in 09/10
20.5 million in 10/11
22.1 million in 11/12
23.79 million in 12/13

Clearly the Nets are trying to relieve salary cap space and hope they get someone in the summer of 2010. Who knows if that will happen, they could end up with no one.

Courtney Lee is a young good player lets see how he turns out without all the help around him.

Alston, he is a little whiner just go play or maybe he should go back to playing for AND1


Edit

The only way imho for Orlando to be better than the Cavs would be to retain Hedo.

Pretty much sums it up. Vince was putting up around 20/5/5 as an average on the Nets.
Nets will have their salary at low 20's next year for the Free agents that will be available.
Enough room to sign 2 max players

I wish they would be able to sign 2 max players but there might be more of a chance they end up with no one unfortunately.

But hell if they get 2 perenenial all-stars to go with Devin and Brook Lopez... it would be a start Hayes and Dooling have played well... Hayes will definitely be able to cash in.

 

[Storm]

Originally posted by: actuarial
Some serious hate for Vince here.

He is probably top five in the league at creating his own shot (be it driving or step back jumper) and he's actually a very willing passer. The biggest beef of Vince when he was on the raps was that he wasn't designed to be the MAN. Dwight is the man in ORL so it won't be a problem.

He is also EASILY one of the most clutch players in the league. He shot an eFG% of 56% of clutch jump shots this year, and even better when inside. Compare that to Mr Clutch Tukoglu who shoots an anemic 35% on clutch jump shots. NJ will have a TRUE inside outside game with Dwight/Vince. Add in Shard and Petrius and you have a VERY balanced team. Vince will also only be guarding the second best perimeter player, which is not hard for him. He can play D when he gives the effort.

Check out www.82games.com for the best individual player stats.

I loved it when Vince was on the Nets but his biggest problem is not knowing when to take it to the hoop and when to settle for the jump-shot. If the other team is over the foul limit with like 5-6 minutes to go in a quarter he should be taking to the cup all the time, but he doesn't .

He was too willing of a passer this past season, I attribute that to Lawrence Frank trying to get the other young guys in the mix.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Storm

Originally posted by: actuarial
Some serious hate for Vince here.

He is probably top five in the league at creating his own shot (be it driving or step back jumper) and he's actually a very willing passer. The biggest beef of Vince when he was on the raps was that he wasn't designed to be the MAN. Dwight is the man in ORL so it won't be a problem.

He is also EASILY one of the most clutch players in the league. He shot an eFG% of 56% of clutch jump shots this year, and even better when inside. Compare that to Mr Clutch Tukoglu who shoots an anemic 35% on clutch jump shots. NJ will have a TRUE inside outside game with Dwight/Vince. Add in Shard and Petrius and you have a VERY balanced team. Vince will also only be guarding the second best perimeter player, which is not hard for him. He can play D when he gives the effort.

Check out www.82games.com for the best individual player stats.

I loved it when Vince was on the Nets but his biggest problem is not knowing when to take it to the hoop and when to settle for the jump-shot. If the other team is over the foul limit with like 5-6 minutes to go in a quarter he should be taking to the cup all the time, but he doesn't .

He was too willing of a passer this past season, I attribute that to Lawrence Frank trying to get the other young guys in the mix.

Better said...he doesn't know when he can get away shooting a jump shot when he should instead be taking it to the hoop, so he of course defaults to the jumper. With his athleticism, there's no excuse for playing his career like such a pansy, except the fact that he is one.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Looks good on paper, but paper doesn't win championships. There's only one ball to go around, so it doesn't matter how many All Stars you collect if they can't play together. Orlando lives and dies by the 3. Do you really want to give VC a free pass to jack up as many 3's per game as he wants?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Originally posted by: dbk
East > West

Drunk much?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/st...drQhbW.6nwqhnoVxW8vLYF

The Suns who were a really good team did not make the playoffs. The would have been the number 5 seed in the east and maybe even better with the eastern schedule.

Take a look at playoff seeds 2-8 in the west. They all would have been #4 the east. Talk about domination. And don't forget the Lakers won it all.

San Antonio got alot better. Denver is hitting its peak real soon. Portland made addition by subtraction better as well as the potential to be healthy.

Cavs got shaq and Magic got Carter. Woop de doo! Hedo left the Magic and Shaq will kill the chemistry of the Cavs.

 

[miniMUNCH]

I think a healthy/able Vince is actually a much better guy to have on the Magic than Hedo... this was a risk but a calculated risk. I'd tkae V for 16 mil over Hedo for 10 mil most any day.

So much of basketball is about desire... playing on Orlando is going to light that desire for Vince big time. I think we will see Vince attack the rim a lot more this year, get to the line, get Howard a lot of easy dunks, and play solid defense. He has done it in the past and can do it for another couple years, if he wants to.

 

[fustercluck]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
I think a healthy/able Vince is actually a much better guy to have on the Magic than Hedo... this was a risk but a calculated risk. I'd tkae V for 16 mil over Hedo for 10 mil most any day.

I wouldn't - Didn't anyone watch the playoffs? Turkoglu was great throughout.

The Magic were a couple misses from being up 3-1 in the finals series, they shouldn't be breaking up the team now. Any trade that happens because of panic never works out. They should of done everything they could to keep that Orlando team together.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: LS21

Originally posted by: jinduy
turkoglu wants 10 mil

he's not worth 10 mil to the magic

if starbury, kirilenko, zach randolph, etc are making 15+, hedo sure as hell should get 10

hell, wally szcerzebak got 13...

and look at all the players you mentioned. teams have been trying to dump them for years.
not saying hedo's a bad player, but teams trying to outbid each other leads to over-inflated contracts and overrated losers.

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

Originally posted by: dbk
East > West

Drunk much?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/st...drQhbW.6nwqhnoVxW8vLYF

The Suns who were a really good team did not make the playoffs. The would have been the number 5 seed in the east and maybe even better with the eastern schedule.

Take a look at playoff seeds 2-8 in the west. They all would have been #4 the east. Talk about domination. And don't forget the Lakers won it all.

San Antonio got alot better. Denver is hitting its peak real soon. Portland made addition by subtraction better as well as the potential to be healthy.

Cavs got shaq and Magic got Carter. Woop de doo! Hedo left the Magic and Shaq will kill the chemistry of the Cavs.

So why are you limiting your analysis to 2-8? I would say 10-16 the west was WAY worse than the east.

 

[jinduy]

Originally posted by: DayLaPaul
Looks good on paper, but paper doesn't win championships. There's only one ball to go around, so it doesn't matter how many All Stars you collect if they can't play together. Orlando lives and dies by the 3. Do you really want to give VC a free pass to jack up as many 3's per game as he wants?

the main reason the magic did it was because hedo was the best finisher around the basket for the magic. that says a lot about how bad the guard/sf play was in orlando.

 

[Storm]

Originally posted by: fustercluck

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
I think a healthy/able Vince is actually a much better guy to have on the Magic than Hedo... this was a risk but a calculated risk. I'd tkae V for 16 mil over Hedo for 10 mil most any day.

I wouldn't - Didn't anyone watch the playoffs? Turkoglu was great throughout.

The Magic were a couple misses from being up 3-1 in the finals series, they shouldn't be breaking up the team now. Any trade that happens because of panic never works out. They should of done everything they could to keep that Orlando team together.

Don't know about break-up... they want to keep Hedo and they are going to offer contracts to Rasheed and Brandon Bass

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: Storm

Originally posted by: fustercluck

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
I think a healthy/able Vince is actually a much better guy to have on the Magic than Hedo... this was a risk but a calculated risk. I'd tkae V for 16 mil over Hedo for 10 mil most any day.

I wouldn't - Didn't anyone watch the playoffs? Turkoglu was great throughout.

The Magic were a couple misses from being up 3-1 in the finals series, they shouldn't be breaking up the team now. Any trade that happens because of panic never works out. They should of done everything they could to keep that Orlando team together.

Don't know about break-up... they want to keep Hedo and they are going to offer contracts to Rasheed and Brandon Bass

They're basically replacing Hedo with a guy who can do everything he does only better. He's a better shooter (may not look it, but the percentages don't lie), better driver, passer. He's also one of the best closers in the league (again, the stats don't lie), while Hedo is more simmer than steak in that department.

He can also gives the team a legitimate secondary ball handler, which the Magic sorely lacked in the playoffs. Also, anyone who's watched Vince when he's motivated (Playoffs with NJ vs Raps) knows just how devastating he can be. He will win ORL AT LEAST 1 playoff game a series on his own. You replace Vince onto ORL in the finals instead of Turkoglu (who played AWFUL until the magic were too far behind to get back), and I am very sure they would have probably won BOTH games 1 and 2.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Orlando doesn't make it out of the 2nd round next year.

 

[ch33kym0use]

I dunno what will happen. I will wait and find out.

 

[Engineer]

Superman.