Virtual currencies recovering!

[Chiropteran]

It says they don't accept cash, not that they don't accept US dollars.

What a maroon.

And if you're using something like credit cards to immediately convert your USD because dollars are too unsafe to be relied upon, then that proves my entire point.

If you are going to ignore bitcoin payment services such as bitpay, then you can't use USD payment services in your counter argument. Nice try though.

 

[jman19]

All over the world, really? You need to search a little harder.

Also, some American companies based in America won't even accept USD:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30964217/

Don't even need to go to a tiny African village.

Where does it say in that link that some American companies won't take USD? It just says it won't take cash.

 

[Chiropteran]

Where does it say in that link that some American companies won't take USD? It just says it won't take cash.

Credit cards are not currency, cash is. Yet this currency is being rejected as a form of payment.

The point is, a currency is not defined by universal acceptance. Even the most widespread currency, USD, is refused by some American companies.

Further, while credit cards can facilitate transfer of USD, bitpay does the exact same for bitcoin- yet Charles seems to think that that doesn't count as bitcoin being used as a currency. If that is his stance, he needs to be consistent- credit cards are to USD what bitpay is to bitcoin.

 

[jman19]

Credit cards are not currency, cash is. Yet this currency is being rejected as a form of payment.

The point is, a currency is not defined by universal acceptance. Even the most widespread currency, USD, is refused by some American companies.

Further, while credit cards can facilitate transfer of USD, bitpay does the exact same for bitcoin- yet Charles seems to think that that doesn't count as bitcoin being used as a currency. If that is his stance, he needs to be consistent- credit cards are to USD what bitpay is to bitcoin.

I'm not sure what your point is - according to you they don't take *any* physical currency. Kind of silly to restrict the definition of currency to paper and coins but then again a lot of your points in this thread are silly

 

[Chiropteran]

I'm not sure what your point is - according to you they don't take *any* currency.

Correct. That is the point.

Bitcoin is accepted as currency at many websites and locations.

USD is also accepted as currency at many locations.

Bitcoin is not accepted at some locations, but this does not make bitcoin a non-currency because...

USD is also not accepted at some locations.



I am disputing the previous argument put forth that USD are accepted everywhere and that is the only reason USD is a currency. The truth is a currency is not defined by universal acceptance. As long as a currency as accepted somewhere, that is good enough. It doesn't need to be accepted everywhere and no currency is accepted everywhere.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

And if you're using something like credit cards to immediately convert your USD because dollars are too unsafe to be relied upon, then that proves my entire point.

If you are going to ignore bitcoin payment services such as bitpay, then you can't use USD payment services in your counter argument. Nice try though.

Credit card companies don't convert US dollars. They just let you borrow US dollars in a more convenient form, which you then pay back in US dollars. There is no currency risk.

Bitpay either lets you get paid in bitcoins, which you keep in bitcoins (in which case you maintain the currency risk and there was no point in Crusty bringing it up) or it lets you convert them to actual currencies, in which case you aren't using bitcoins for anything more than a payment gateway and they are the equivalent of Paypal accepting foreign currency transactions and converting them for you.

You really do appear to be mind-bogglingly stupid. I can't come up with any other explanation for your posts.

Here is a starter list:
...
(List cut short due to post size limit)

Nice spam job. You get extra misrepresentation points for trying to imply that the list was SO long that you couldn't possibly include them all when you actually already had 90% of the list.

The fact that you can post all the places that accept your fraudulent "currency" is pretty much proof in itself that it's a joke.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Bitcoin is accepted as currency at many websites and locations.

USD is also accepted as currency at many locations.

Estimated number of companies in the US: 30,000,000.
Estimated number of companies in the US that accept US dollars: 30,000,000.
Estimated number of companies, worldwide, that accept bitcoin: 575.

Yeah, they are just so comparable.

Bitcoin is not accepted at some locations, but this does not make bitcoin a non-currency because...

"Some" meaning 99.999% of them.

USD is also not accepted at some locations.

Not accepting cash is not the same as not accepting the currency.

 

[Chiropteran]

or it lets you convert them to actual currencies, in which case you aren't using bitcoins for anything more than a payment gateway and they are the equivalent of Paypal accepting foreign currency transactions and converting them for you.

Yes, that is exactly what it does. Bitcoin is indeed a foreign currency compared to USD. Yet you seem to have a problem admitting to that fact. Is this finally a grudging admittance you have been wrong all this time?

I applaud your honesty, everyone makes errors and I'm glad you are willing to admit when you made one.

 

[Chiropteran]

Estimated number of companies in the US that accept US dollars: 30,000,000.
Estimated number of companies, worldwide, that accept bitcoin: 575.

Estimated number of people in this thread who care: 1 (you).

I don't think anyone has claimed that bitcoin is as big as USD. Do you think that someone has made that claim? Lets look back at the thread a bit...

Nope, nobody ever said that bitcoin's economy was as big as the USD economy.

So then, why are you ACTING like such a comparison has been made? Oh I get it, it's another easy STRAW MAN for you to burn down. Proving a point that nobody has ever disputed. Good job, you keep burning those straw men.

Not accepting cash is not the same as not accepting the currency.

Accepting bitcoin through bitpay? Not accepting bitcoin.

Accepting cash through a credit card service? Accepting cash!

Anyone notice the difference here?

 

[Sloper]

What a boring tiresome thread. Same arguments over and over.

It's really simple. There are two possibilities:
1. Over time, people will start accepting bitcoins, increasing its adoption, demand, and overall value.
2. Over time, people will abandon bitcoins. Presumably from it being decreed illegal, security breaches, or a protocol failure.

The world has never seen this experiment before. It's arrogant to think you know what the future holds for bitcoins.
The long term trend is up. Short term trend is always volatile. Make your bets and shut up.

 

[Chiropteran]

Ah, now you're resorting to lying.

I post in the thread when I see it on the recent posts list and when I feel like I have something to say. It just so happens that every time I look at the price history of bitcoin, there are huge downswings in short periods of time that make an utter joke out of the notion that it in any way resembles a currency.

Where is your honesty now? You were quick to note the loss in value this morning, but at the time of your last post bitcoin has gone back up in value by 16% Why didn't you report the HUGE UPSWING the same way you report all the downswings?

Calling me a liar, and later you prove what I said to be true. You are biased. You only report the change in value when it supports your agenda.

 

[Doppel]

Chiro has been given schooling but refuses to learn. In the end he will have to learn the hard way. He is one of those people who can't use others' wisdom and eschew anything not personally experienced.

I would guess he is probably a loner in his professional life and doesn't work particularly well with others.

 

[rockyct]

What a boring tiresome thread. Same arguments over and over.

It's really simple. There are two possibilities:
1. Over time, people will start accepting bitcoins, increasing its adoption, demand, and overall value.
2. Over time, people will abandon bitcoins. Presumably from it being decreed illegal, security breaches, or a protocol failure.

The world has never seen this experiment before. It's arrogant to think you know what the future holds for bitcoins.
The long term trend is up. Short term trend is always volatile. Make your bets and shut up.

Yeah, I check in on the thread because I am curious with what happens with bitcoin but then I see that the stupid argument is still raging on.

 

[ultimatebob]

Besides, all of the cool people are making money selling altcoins that are likely doomed to fail. We know that they're gonna fail, but we're smart enough to unload them before that occurs!

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Where is your honesty now? You were quick to note the loss in value this morning, but at the time of your last post bitcoin has gone back up in value by 16% Why didn't you report the HUGE UPSWING the same way you report all the downswings?

Calling me a liar, and later you prove what I said to be true. You are biased. You only report the change in value when it supports your agenda.

Boy, you really are a whiny little thing, aren't you?

Terribly sorry for not hitting F5 on the Mt. Gox page every 4 milliseconds so I can keep track of the latest manipulations of your faux "currency". Occasionally I like to, you know, get some work done.

Since it's so important to you, I hereby declare my acknowledgement that your fraudulent "currency" has regained about 1/3 of what it lost in value in the preceding 12 hours. Happy?

 

[chimaxi83]

Why the hate over Bitcoins, and mining? Just curious.

 

[SSSnail]

Wow, what an impressive list of...nothing.

 

[SSSnail]

Why the hate over Bitcoins, and mining? Just curious.

Just like any ponzi scheme rejections, these are the hates of our life.

 

[natto fire]

Why the hate over Bitcoins, and mining? Just curious.

I think the whole thread has took a turn for the emotional and while I am not really vested in this argument, I have a clearly defined winner from using traditional logic arguments. I also have my personal bias to account for being extremely cynical of systems in place, especially when they are aimed at suppressing what I feel is right in my soul.

I've been watching this thread for a while but was hesitant to post my opinion because in my opinion both sides of the debate have appeared ridiculous in this thread at one point or another.

The main point I noticed, which is kind of being glossed over, is how there are numerous other cryptocurrencies obviously centered around greed and cashing in on bitcoins popularity.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Who could hate on bitcoins? They are magically delicious!

 

[randomrogue]

Bottom line is that the only real use for these is to launder money, evade taxes, evade sanctions, do drug deals, and generally break the law.

 

[ultimatebob]

Bottom line is that the only real use for these is to launder money, evade taxes, evade sanctions, do drug deals, and generally break the law.

Hey now... there is good money to be made selling mined currency to these lawbreakers!

There is probably even better money in selling the new ASIC mining equipment, or selling the illegal stuff. I'm not touching that shit, though... I don't want someone from the FBI, IRS, or DEA knocking on my door a few months from now.

 

[ultimatebob]

Wow, what an impressive list of...nothing.

The survival camping store on that list sells some cool stuff. I got a really nice flashlight from them!

 

[Juddog]

Bitcoin traders got the shaft from bitfloor:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...in-exchange-customers-still-wait-for-refunds/

 

[MrColin]

I had a lot of fun with bitcoin, got 2 new video cards and came out about $500 ahead. I also learned a good bit about finance/economics and currency speculation. I would not endorse it as a sound investment vehicle, but I think it is awesome, even in the face of people who say it is a scam (usually while demonstrating a lack of understanding of its nature or purpose).