Virtualized Lab Environment - Server purchase?

[wizzkidd2k]

Hi guys,

At my old place of work I have been working here and there with imaging and deployment, and occasionally used Virtual Box, Hyper-V and VMware.

I now have a new job solely dedicated to "Build Development" which, in short involves creating custom images for customers. This has led me to jump in with both feet at the deep end. Using a mixture of WDS with MDT2010, MDT2012, SCCM2007 and SCCM2012, I am building Windows 2008, R2, and 2012 Server OS's. I am working with the likes of the latest SQL Server versions, and a wide range of other enterprise programs. I am working entirely with VMware (workstation for local projects, and connecting to ESX Servers for global projects).

My direct interaction with all these OS's and enterprise programs keeps me interested an occupied. The general ideal when building an image is to learn each platform and the applications and roles etc - and create silent, lite-touch creations for a customer to deploy in their organisation.

So, enough of the intro... With so many different software technologies to play with, I would like to further my skillset at home in a virtual lab environment - i.e to have a server where I can run numerous VM's simultaneously in order to test installs and processes etc. I would only run 3/4 VM's at any one time, but some of the OS's are greedy when it comes down to their minimum requirements.

Now having seen the sticky post, I have completed it and ask for any help or assistant in purchasing a server/pc capable of meeting my requirements...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Creating test VMware VM's for installing new OS's and software.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
£300 (UK Pounds)

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
UK, England

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.
To be honest, I'm not sure who are the most recommended retailers here in the UK for hardware, but the ones I know of are:
- http://www.ebuyer.com/
- http://www.scan.co.uk/
- http://www.aria.co.uk/
- http://www.microdirect.co.uk/
- http://www.overclockers.co.uk/

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
No brand preferences

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
No reuse of parts. EDIT: Actually, I can reuse my 2x monitors and my dual output ATI Grafx card (and keyboard, mouse etc).

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Default speeds (unless the option is available)

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
No specific resolution. Anything above 1024x768 will suffice these days

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.
In the next 2-3 months

10. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
No software or OS required (pre-installed OS's are just a bonus).

Other points:
- A machine that has a motherboard that can segment the core for explicit VM would be advantageous (i'm not sure what the correct term for this is).
- A system with 16GB RAM would be preferred with the option to expand if possible.
- Ample Hard disk storage will be required, in the region of 1TB+
- I am willing to explore the option of a ESXi server if it works out as better value.

If there are any other answers required that I have not mentioned above, please do not hesitate to ask me.

I appreciate the input and feedback and look forward to your response.

Thanks,

WizzKidd

 

[Sleepingforest]

Welcome to the forums, WizzKid! I'm glad that you're interested in computers, but there are a few problems with your request, only some of which are mitigatable.

First of all, if the computer is for work, you may actually want to go with Dell or a similar OEM because they offer same-day or next-day warranty guarantee--this is critical in a work setting, because time is money. The alternative is to buy a second copy of each part and keep the hard drive backed up religiously with an external drive--something that would cost as much as getting a business machine.

That brings me to my second point: cost. There is simply no way to get a 1TB hard drive, 16GB of RAM, and a many-cored CPU for 300£. It is very difficult to get a working computer for that much, let alone a powerful one.

Finally, your timeframe is difficult. First of all, a new CPU generation is launching in the summer, at the beginning of June. Secondly, prices fluctuate wildly and rapidly in the world of components, so any recommendations now would have to be very general.

My advice? Save up extra for the next few months. What you want is only really possible with a 600-800£ budget--anything significantly cheaper will also be significantly compromised.

 

[wizzkidd2k]

Thanks for your prompt reply Sleeping forest, just to clarify on a few things, (see green comment replies)...

Welcome to the forums, WizzKid! I'm glad that you're interested in computers, but there are a few problems with your request, only some of which are mitigatable.

First of all, if the computer is for work, you may actually want to go with Dell or a similar OEM because they offer same-day or next-day warranty guarantee--this is critical in a work setting, because time is money. The alternative is to buy a second copy of each part and keep the hard drive backed up religiously with an external drive--something that would cost as much as getting a business machine.
The computer is not "for work" per se, it is a computer for me to use at home, so that I can self-study some of the things I do at work, but in my own time, and at my own leisure. So with that said, I doubt I'd need to think about resilience, backup hardware parts and business models etc.

That brings me to my second point: cost. There is simply no way to get a 1TB hard drive, 16GB of RAM, and a many-cored CPU for 300£. It is very difficult to get a working computer for that much, let alone a powerful one.
I wasn't sure what the going rates were, so perhaps 1TB was a big ask, however I am flexible to work within my budget, so for instance, if 500GB or even 360GB is getting the most I'd get then so be it. I understand RAM is quite cheap these days, hence why I'd like to push for 16GB and due to the VM nature of which I intend to use the machine.

Finally, your timeframe is difficult. First of all, a new CPU generation is launching in the summer, at the beginning of June. Secondly, prices fluctuate wildly and rapidly in the world of components, so any recommendations now would have to be very general.
I'm a patient guy, especially if it means I can save as a result. So if it means waiting until mid-June for new CPU's to launch, and supersede the previous CPU and in-turn reduce their prices, then I'm happy to do that. Although I don't know what kind of processor I should be focusing on. If a calculation of the kit goes over budget judging by todays prices, I would hope that in a few months it would drop within budget - possibly.

My advice? Save up extra for the next few months. What you want is only really possible with a 600-800£ budget--anything significantly cheaper will also be significantly compromised
I couldn't see myself saving up to £600-£800, my fiancé would go crazy, as I am actually saving up for our wedding, lol. At I push, I might get to £400 top end.
.

 

[Sleepingforest]

My reply to that is this: RAM runs about 50£ for 8GB, and 95£ for 16GB. A very basic 2 core processor is at least 50£, as is the motherboard. A hard drive runs about 50£ for a 500GB one. And the case and PSU are another 50£ each. That's around 250£ together.

That will work as a computer. But really, to run many VMs at the same time, you should have 4-8 cores, which costs at least 75£ for the CPU alone (and up to £330 for the higher end ones!), plus the motherboards are a bit more expensive. That is why I say it is best to save up. It will work; it just won't work that well.

 

[mfenn]

Here's my best shot for £400.

i5 3470 £155
MSI B75MA-E33 £44
Corsair DDR3 1600 16GB £95
Seagate 7200RPM 1TB £52
Silverstone 400W £33
Some Crappy Case £12
Total: £391

The MSI has an RTL8111E, which does work in ESXi.

 

[Sleepingforest]

That is suprisingly good for 400£! I guess I didn't realize how low a case/PSU can go (and still be somewhat reliable).

 

[Gunbuster]

Switch to Server 2012 as your VM host. You can use dedup to save around 90% in hard drive space used by your VHD's

 

[Enigma102083]

Are you going to be running ESXi on it? If so, you need to be looking at the HCLs for that and getting something appropriate.

 

[mfenn]

Are you going to be running ESXi on it? If so, you need to be looking at the HCLs for that and getting something appropriate.

ESXi 4.0 and newer is actually pretty good about hardware support. They include most all of the mainline Linux networking and storage drivers. Sure you might not be able to get production support for it, but that hardly matters for a lab box.

 

[wizzkidd2k]

So do I go for a workstation-type platform that has suffecient hardware such as @mfenn 's recommendation, or do I go for a server-type platform that can run ESXi? I'm not sure - any guidence would be appriciated.

 

[Enigma102083]

ESXi 4.0 and newer is actually pretty good about hardware support. They include most all of the mainline Linux networking and storage drivers. Sure you might not be able to get production support for it, but that hardly matters for a lab box.

That's good to know.

 

[Enigma102083]

So do I go for a workstation-type platform that has suffecient hardware such as @mfenn 's recommendation, or do I go for a server-type platform that can run ESXi? I'm not sure - any guidence would be appriciated.

By "workstation platform" do you mean build yourself a workstation that you run multiple server VMs on? If so, I advise against that, as trying to get your client machine to talk to a server machine that's on the same box doing virtual NAT can be a huge pain.

 

[mfenn]

So do I go for a workstation-type platform that has suffecient hardware such as @mfenn 's recommendation, or do I go for a server-type platform that can run ESXi? I'm not sure - any guidence would be appriciated.

The idea for my build is to use it for ESXi and use your existing machine to run the vSphere client.

 

[wizzkidd2k]

Just an update:

I bought a HP Proliant Microserver N40L with 16GB RAM installed for £200 from eBay.

 

[TheKub]

I would be concerned about a single spindle drive being able to handle the IO of 3-5+ VMs especially with things like SQL and SCCM. This is likely to be your first bottleneck.

 

[mfenn]

Just an update:

I bought a HP Proliant Microserver N40L with 16GB RAM installed for £200 from eBay.

Not a bad deal!