Vista and Sound Cards

[ebeattie]

Im almost done with the third phase of my upgrade. Im looking to upgrade my sound card and Speakers.

I will be getting the Logitech Z-5500 system for my speakers. But while researching a sound card, I became increasingly concerned that any purchase I make now wont be worth a sh!t when I eventually upgrade to vista.

Im looking at a basic 7.1 Sound Blaster Audigy 4 SE. I have heard that Microsoft is abandoning the Direct audio in Vista and EAX and the like will be obsolete.

If this is the case, are there any sound cards that are future proofed for Vista?

 

[PorscheMaD911]

X-fi

 

[stretchy pants]

http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy

they released an EXE yesterday.

 

[ryansebiz]

What's a sund card?

 

[ebeattie]

The most advanced sound card EVAR. So advanced, they didnt need the "o" anymore.

lol fixed.

Ok so I newegged some sound cards.

Both are SB's and both are X-fi.

The first is the Xtreme Audio

And the other is the Xtreme Gamer

Telling by the names the Gamer is more geared for playing games and high end multimedia, but as long as I get clear sound, Im ok! I realize that 15 more bucks isnt really that big of a deal in the long run, but is do I really need dolby and DTS support for good sound?

 

[Markbnj]

Vista doesn't support DirectSound any more, and doesn't support EAX hardware accel, which was a proprietary Creative interface. It does support OpenAL, which is an open hardware interface. Creative has an OpenAL driver, and has released Alchemy to support older games using DirectSound.

 

[stretchy pants]

this statement really sucks. stupid microsoft.

As most DS3D games only enable 3D Audio (and EAX) if a hardware accelerator is present, most of these games will be reduced to a stereo output.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: stretchy pants
this statement really sucks. stupid microsoft.

As most DS3D games only enable 3D Audio (and EAX) if a hardware accelerator is present, most of these games will be reduced to a stereo output.

To be fair, the old sound stack in Windows was fairly ancient and needed to be overhauled. Microsoft could have done a better job about it though, but I'm glad to see DS3D->OpenAL wrappers are possible. I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

PS ebeattie The Xtreme Audio is not a real X-Fi, it's effectively a software-based soundcard. Get one of the other X-Fi's

 

[stretchy pants]

I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

well, whats the motivation for anyone else to do one? i mean, i dont see realtek or intel or anyone else stepping up with OpenAL support. anyone without OpenAL support is gonna be kinda screwed in vista.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: stretchy pants

I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

well, whats the motivation for anyone else to do one? i mean, i dont see realtek or intel or anyone else stepping up with OpenAL support. anyone without OpenAL support is gonna be kinda screwed in vista.

I doubt we will see anyone else do it. Creative was really forced to do it since they have a stranglehold on gaming sound with EAX. Now that EAX is gone, they needed something to justify the expensive price of their sound cards.

With OpenAL being the new standard, I imagine there will be a much better marketplace for gaming cards.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: stretchy pants

I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

well, whats the motivation for anyone else to do one? i mean, i dont see realtek or intel or anyone else stepping up with OpenAL support. anyone without OpenAL support is gonna be kinda screwed in vista.

I doubt we will see anyone else do it. Creative was really forced to do it since they have a stranglehold on gaming sound with EAX. Now that EAX is gone, they needed something to justify the expensive price of their sound cards.

With OpenAL being the new standard, I imagine there will be a much better marketplace for gaming cards.

I don't see why there would be. OpenAL is a replacement for DS3D, not EAX. Creative is still the only game in town as far as that goes.

 

[stretchy pants]

not that they HAVE to be. it's an open standard. just seems like none of the other manufacturers really give a crap. *shrug*

 

[ebeattie]

PS ebeattie The Xtreme Audio is not a real X-Fi, it's effectively a software-based soundcard. Get one of the other X-Fi's[/quote]

X-Fi Gamer should do the trick then right?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ebeattie


X-Fi Gamer should do the trick then right?

Yeah, that one has all the good stuff

 

[Unkno]

Creative sound cards are overrated especially the X-Fi...if you care about music/movie quality, you should try something like an M-Audio Revolution.

The only thing the creative cards have are EAX.

 

[stretchy pants]

Originally posted by: Unkno
Creative sound cards are overrated especially the X-Fi...if you care about music/movie quality, you should try something like an M-Audio Revolution.

The only thing the creative cards have are EAX.

And OpenAL support. Therefore giving people 3D audio in Vista, as discussed above. M-Audio and every other Non-OpenAL supporting sound card will be hosed as well unless they suddenly support OpenAL.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: stretchy pants

I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

well, whats the motivation for anyone else to do one? i mean, i dont see realtek or intel or anyone else stepping up with OpenAL support. anyone without OpenAL support is gonna be kinda screwed in vista.

I doubt we will see anyone else do it. Creative was really forced to do it since they have a stranglehold on gaming sound with EAX. Now that EAX is gone, they needed something to justify the expensive price of their sound cards.

With OpenAL being the new standard, I imagine there will be a much better marketplace for gaming cards.

I don't see why there would be. OpenAL is a replacement for DS3D, not EAX. Creative is still the only game in town as far as that goes.

EAX is implemented at the hardware level though, which is now gone. Sure they have a work around but I am curious to see how well it works before I pass judgement on it.

Maybe it's just wishfull thinking that Creative's monopoly on gaming sound cards may finally come to an end.

 

[tickyour]

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Vista doesn't support DirectSound any more, and doesn't support EAX hardware accel, which was a proprietary Creative interface.

Hold on.. so my Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS is worhtless now with Vista? :Q

 

[stretchy pants]

tick: thats a question that has a few answers.

1. if the game supports OpenAL (doom 3, quake 4, BF2 and others (see openal.org. for a complete list) then you'll still get EAX and 3d audio
2. if the game supported DS3D (World of Warcraft, Diablo 2, Call of Duty 2 etc) then you're prolly gonna get stereo audio and no EAX. no matter WHAT card you have.
3. with an X-Fi, they have a solution: ALchemy. read more at preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy

 

[tickyour]

Hm..ok thanks for the reply.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: stretchy pants

I wonder if we'll see anyone besides Creative do one though.

well, whats the motivation for anyone else to do one? i mean, i dont see realtek or intel or anyone else stepping up with OpenAL support. anyone without OpenAL support is gonna be kinda screwed in vista.

I doubt we will see anyone else do it. Creative was really forced to do it since they have a stranglehold on gaming sound with EAX. Now that EAX is gone, they needed something to justify the expensive price of their sound cards.

With OpenAL being the new standard, I imagine there will be a much better marketplace for gaming cards.

I don't see why there would be. OpenAL is a replacement for DS3D, not EAX. Creative is still the only game in town as far as that goes.

EAX is implemented at the hardware level though, which is now gone. Sure they have a work around but I am curious to see how well it works before I pass judgement on it.

Maybe it's just wishfull thinking that Creative's monopoly on gaming sound cards may finally come to an end.

I really think it is just wishful thinking. To compete with Creative, you need to either be able to support all the EAX levels they do(up to EAX5) or have your own competing sound standard that has just as many features. You can't do the former because Creative won't license EAX like that, and you can't do the later because Creative owns the combined patents of themselves, Sensaura, and Aureal, which means if you try inventing a new standard you're sure to run afoul of one of those patents. I see no reason why Creative is going to lose their monopoly, unless the gaming sound card market collapses entirely.

PS Even though ALchemy is currently X-Fi-only, I wouldn't rule it out of working with other CL cards later. Creative is shady(which is why it's X-Fi only right now), but ALchemy is only a wrapper, and the Audigy series does support OpenAL

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: stretchy pants

Originally posted by: Unkno
Creative sound cards are overrated especially the X-Fi...if you care about music/movie quality, you should try something like an M-Audio Revolution.

The only thing the creative cards have are EAX.

And OpenAL support. Therefore giving people 3D audio in Vista, as discussed above. M-Audio and every other Non-OpenAL supporting sound card will be hosed as well unless they suddenly support OpenAL.

Actually, I believe the M-Audio Revolution has native support for OpenAL ever since it was first released.

 

[stretchy pants]

from m-audio's website http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution51-focus.html

Windows Media 9
Sensaura
EAX
DirectSound
A3D
SRS TruSurround XT?
SRS Circle Surround II?
ASIO 2
Mac OS X Core Audio

only products i know of other than creative's to have native OpenAL support was Nvidia's Soundstorm which is no longer being shipped with their motherboards.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I don't see why there would be. OpenAL is a replacement for DS3D, not EAX. Creative is still the only game in town as far as that goes.

How did you come up with that? Not only does OpenAL support spacial effects, but so does fMod, even other less ventured sound APIs.

Originally posted by: ViRGE
You can't do the former because Creative won't license EAX like that, and you can't do the later because Creative owns the combined patents of themselves

Creative does not own a patent for reproducing 3D sound, that is absurd. There are alternative and far superior methods to rendering audio over any of Creative's implementations. If you view the OpenAL or fMod documentation you may be surprised.

What many here seem to have overlooked entirely is that there is no requirement for OpenAL to be hardware accelerated. Any medieval sound card that you manage to install under Vista is capable of running OpenAL applications.

 

[stretchy pants]

nano,

unfortunately for fmod and miles, their software fallbacks aren't being used by most game developers. try using World of Warcraft (a Fmod title) in Vista and see for yourself. The game gives you stereo panning with no effects. same with Miles. try playing Warcraft 3 or Call of Duty. same thing.