Vista, HD and non HDCP monitors

[AndyKH]

I have this urge for a dell 2405FPW (though I don't have money for it yet). However, I read somewhere over at Ars that only the new 30" inch dell display supports HDCP. As I understand it, Windows Vista will require the monitor to support HDCP if you want to enjoy HD content from HD-DVDs etc. Is that correct?
Also (this might infact fit better in the OS forum, but I'll try here), I've read somewhere that Vista's DRM won't allow the playing of a copied DVD. As the content protection on DVDs has been cracked years ago, how would Vista achieve that? (On second thought, is it even possible to copy a factory manufactured movie DVD to a DL blank DVD?)

Thx in advance
Andreas

 

[fierydemise]

Dell will be releasing the 2407 which will basically be the 2405 with HDCP sometime in the next few months according to rumors

 

[NoStateofMind]

So far I see two things to wait on if you are buying them. Video Cards (new one's later this month), and LCD's, one's with HDCP.

 

[rbV5]

I've read somewhere that Vista's DRM won't allow the playing of a copied DVD. As the content protection on DVDs has been cracked years ago, how would Vista achieve that?

Nonsense, that would stop you from playing your own DVD's:roll:

 

[amdnVuser]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I've read somewhere that Vista's DRM won't allow the playing of a copied DVD. As the content protection on DVDs has been cracked years ago, how would Vista achieve that?

Nonsense, that would stop you from playing your own DVD's:roll:

I think he just means HD-DVD's or Blu-Ray DVD's. HDCP is meant to protect HD content only, not your standard MPEG2 DVD's (they're, of course, protected by pitiful CSS encryption).

However, I wouldn't rule out Vista (and possibly WMP 11 for XP or future 3rd party DVD decoders) enabling some sort of DRM for DVD playback. MS and other multimedia software companies are caving hard to content providers in an effort to strike ahead in the digital convergence arena.

 

[dev0lution]

Here's a thought to ponder. Windows Vista won't be out till later in 2006. Add to that the fact you'd have to upgrade to a 1st generation Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive before you have to worry about HDCP. You're looking at a pretty sizeable investment to be current right there.

I think you'll see a whole lot more HDCP monitors come out by then that'll be either a bit more affordable or at smaller sizes/lower resolutions.

If you have to be bleeding edge, be prepared to pay the price and deal with the bugs

 

[MBrown]

I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

 

[dev0lution]

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

Because of space issues. Some of us have decently sized LCD's that double as a display for DVD's or TV via computer based tuner w/PVR functions in bedrooms etc...

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: dev0lution

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

Because of space issues. Some of us have decently sized LCD's that double as a display for DVD's or TV via computer based tuner w/PVR functions in bedrooms etc...

Exactly. I do a lot of HDTV watching (with timeshifting) on my 2005FPW, sitting in front of my computer in my pretty comfortable chair. Works quite well in a small dorm room setting

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

Ever hear of a HTPC?

 

[LumbergTech]

this hdcp thing sounds like a bunch of crap, im sure someone will eventually find a way around it..

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
this hdcp thing sounds like a bunch of crap, im sure someone will eventually find a way around it..

 

[Fistandantilis]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

Ever hear of a HTPC?

really, I dont know but I have heard of it, but what is HTPC?

 

[NoStateofMind]

HTPC = Home Theater Personal Computer

 

[imported_ST]

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17427

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

This is why I will add a 2407 to sit along side my 2405 come next August. rool;
..
<>
l
l
l

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: MBrown
I would you watch DVD's on your computer anyway?

So you can jerk off to HD pr0n w/o having people invade your privacy.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
this hdcp thing sounds like a bunch of crap, im sure someone will eventually find a way around it..

Considering the media, the player and the monitor are all working together *and* it can be updated from data encoded into High Def DVDs and HD transmissions any way around it is going to be a royal PITA most likely.


Lethal

 

[sep]

Does anyone have more information about HDCP? I want to read more up on it.

For now my thoughts are that HDCP sucks sweaty donkey balls just after the donkey has carried a ton of crap (I do mean crap) a crossed the desert. :lips:

 

[UltraWide]

I thought that Blueray and HD-DVD will still play, just at a lower resolution.
Still even the lower resolution is better than current DVD quality.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: UltraWide
I thought that Blueray and HD-DVD will still play, just at a lower resolution.
Still even the lower resolution is better than current DVD quality.

The content provider can choose what the policy is for non-HDCP displays. You can either not play or play at reduced quality and/or resolution. An HD stream sampled down to 480p would probably look slightly better than today's DVDs.

Of course, they can also choose not to use HDCP at all.

 

[HexiumVII]

so does this mean that XP will not support HDCP at all?

 

[elkinm]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: UltraWide
I thought that Blueray and HD-DVD will still play, just at a lower resolution.
Still even the lower resolution is better than current DVD quality.

The content provider can choose what the policy is for non-HDCP displays. You can either not play or play at reduced quality and/or resolution. An HD stream sampled down to 480p would probably look slightly better than today's DVDs.

Of course, they can also choose not to use HDCP at all.

So if HDCP is not used then it would play a full HD quality or not at all.
This once again opens up ripping the DVD and re-burning it without HDCP or simply using a generic DVD player like VideoLAN which will probably support HD but disable HDCP.

I really hope that some publisher secretly has movies without HDCP and advertises them as giving full resolution on all hardware and simply clean up on their sales forcing the others to follow suit. The vast population is just not ready for such a required hardware update. Unless of course the government issues massive amounts of money to help people with the switch like the vouchers (anybody know where to get them) for converters to the all digital TV switch which is still years away.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: elkinm

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: UltraWide
I thought that Blueray and HD-DVD will still play, just at a lower resolution.
Still even the lower resolution is better than current DVD quality.

The content provider can choose what the policy is for non-HDCP displays. You can either not play or play at reduced quality and/or resolution. An HD stream sampled down to 480p would probably look slightly better than today's DVDs.

Of course, they can also choose not to use HDCP at all.

So if HDCP is not used then it would play a full HD quality or not at all.

I mean the content provider can choose not to use it (just like you can make DVDs without CSS). If they don't choose to encrypt the content, you can play it on anything you want that has a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive.

This once again opens up ripping the DVD and re-burning it without HDCP

Which would require breaking HDCP (unlikely to be easy).

or simply using a generic DVD player like VideoLAN which will probably support HD but disable HDCP.

Which would require breaking HDCP (unlikely to be easy).

I really hope that some publisher secretly has movies without HDCP and advertises them as giving full resolution on all hardware and simply clean up on their sales forcing the others to follow suit. The vast population is just not ready for such a required hardware update. Unless of course the government issues massive amounts of money to help people with the switch like the vouchers (anybody know where to get them) for converters to the all digital TV switch which is still years away.

The VAST majority of HDTVs sold in the last five years or so that have DVI or HDMI inputs support HDCP (anything with an HDMI input is supposed to support it; it's optional for DVI inputs). This is really only a problem on the PC side, since monitor makers (and apparently also video card makers; see the other big current thread in Video) have been slacking off and not actually supporting it.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
...
Which would require breaking HDCP (unlikely to be easy).
...

Let me repost what I posted in the other thread.

From technical point of view HDCP is a joke.
It was broken even before it went to production.



From wikipedia about HDCP:

Cryptanalysis

Cryptanalysis researchers demonstrated fatal flaws in HDCP for the first time in 2001, prior to its adoption in any commercial product. Scott Crosby of Carnegie Mellon University authored a paper with Ian Goldberg, Robert Johnson, Dawn Song, and David Wagner called "A Cryptanalysis of the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection System" [1]. This paper was presented at ACM-CCS8 DRM Workshop on November 5, 2001.

The authors conclude:

"HDCP's linear key exchange is a fundamental weaknesses [sic]. We can:

* Eavesdrop on any data
* Clone any device with only their public key
* Avoid any blacklist on devices
* Create new device keyvectors.
* In aggregate, we can usurp the authority completely."

Around the same time that Scott Crosby and co-authors were writing this paper, noted cryptographer Niels Ferguson independently claimed to have broken the HDCP scheme, but he chose not to publish his research due to legal concerns arising from the Digital Millennium Copyright Act [2].