Vista OS and SSDs... bad idea?

[VirtualLarry]

I've got a client with an older OEM (maybe HP) AMD AM2 (maybe AM2+) rig, that came with Vista 32-bit and 3GB DDR2, in four slots.

The owner deleted chunks of the OS, and couldn't restore it (didn't have discs, and at the time, I didn't have Vista ISOs either). So I convinced them to upgrade to Windows 7.

Later, it was having blue-screen problems. I removed the two 512MB sticks of DDR2, and the bluescreens went away.

I owe this client some credit ($). As far as I know, they're not using this PC for anything, because they put a bloated A/V on there, and had some malware, and don't don't feel like paying to re-format it with only 2GB of RAM in there.

I was thinking I could drop in 2x2GB of DDR2, and an SSD, and re-format it for them, and that would take care of most of their credit. I think that it would make the PC like it was better than new, in respect to performance.

But this client has never really had the joy of using a rig with an SSD.

I was also thinking, they have another HP that only has 1 or maybe 2GB of RAM, it's a P4, and they wanted to upgrade it to Win7.

I could move the (retail upgrade) license to the P4, and re-format the AM2 rig using the Vista key sticker on the machine.

But Vista doesn't support TRIM, which might be an issue for adding an SSD to the AM2 rig.

What SSD brands / models would be good for a Vista machine? Either ones that don't need TRIM, or ones that come with a "toolbox" that can automatically run a TRIM pass, independent of the OS, at least weekly?

And would an SSD benefit a P4 rig at all? Even a slow one, like an OCZ Agility 30GB, or a Corsair Force LS 60GB? It would have to use an IDE-to-SATA converter, which, when used with the current 640GB WD AAKS drive, seemed to force it into ATA-33 mode, which slowed it way down.

 

[daveybrat]

And would an SSD benefit a P4 rig at all? Even a slow one, like an OCZ Agility 30GB, or a Corsair Force LS 60GB? It would have to use an IDE-to-SATA converter, which, when used with the current 640GB WD AAKS drive, seemed to force it into ATA-33 mode, which slowed it way down.

None. I would not put an SSD in an old P4 rig. Especially with an IDE to sata converter. Put the focus on the the Vista rig and if you need to buy a drive, go with a Crucial M500, MX100, or MX200 series drive.

 

[redzo]

That p4 rig is severely bottlenecked by the cpu. I would avoid it at all cost. A p4 cpu rig spends most of its time at above 50% cpu usage when opening a few internet tabs.

We've got too many of these(p4's 478 and 775) at work. After you have installed a current antivirus solution, user experience goes to hell. It's a pain in the a*s to use those systems. We are waiting for the mobos to fail so that we can throw them to the garbage disposal.

What SSD brands / models would be good for a Vista machine? Either ones that don't need TRIM, or ones that come with a "toolbox" that can automatically run a TRIM pass, independent of the OS, at least weekly?

Since this is an old config anyways, the am2 one, I don't think that it is worthy for some fancy expensive cherry picked ssd. I would go straight for the cheapest ones available. No trim support: just make a disk clone, secure erase it and put the disk clone back after a max of one year of usage.

 

[fuzzymath10]

Maybe find an Intel G1 SSD. I used them in two Vista systems back in 2009 and no complaints. They're very hardy and designed to work in an environment without trim.

 

[HalfCrazy]

It sounds like the client is a basic user and don't understand computers well enough to fix them if anything goes wrong.

I would at least use Window 7 on the AM2+ if you plan on placing a SSD in it. As we know Windows 7 has built in trim support for SSD's. I also find upgrading the AM2+ memory to 2x2GB and the SSD will give the client the best performance.

My self I would never use a SSD for a OS that don't support trim it self. Using software to handle the trim could end up getting turned off by the client some how.

I would not even bother placing a SSD in the P4 it lacks a SATA port and using a IDE-to-SATA converter is not worth it.

Just focus on the AM2+ computer and the client should be happy. I would tell the client the P4 is not worth spending anymore money on it.

 

[Blain]

P4 rig + No-SATA = Take it off life support and allow it to die a dignified natural death

 

[denis280]

that came with Vista 32-bit and 3GB DDR2

is it the sempron

 

[WT]

I'm using a Kingston V+100 96GB SSD in a Vista HTPC currently. It does not support TRIM, but does use garbage collection cleanly. It also does not suffer from any sleep resume issues that plagued Sandforce controllers of that era, so I continue to leave it alone rather than upgrade it.

Wow, a P4 ?? It is winter, so it will cut down on the heating bill, but otherwise, I am with the majority here in saying it's due for a visit to the recyclers. I'd look for a cheap 775 board and a C2D e7500 and go that route. I just bought 2 e7500s for $9 each, and 775 boards can be had for under $25.

 

[redzo]

Used old ssd's carry the burden of reduced endurance. I would not go that route. Finding a ssd with garbage collection nowadays(I couldn't find one) it's hard or your options are very limited since it is not a priority anymore to design and market a drive for a non trim environment.
You're left with that cheap brand new and available SSD option. Not trimmed, but still at least as fast as a mechanical when performance goes bollocks due to the absence of trim.

 

[VirtualLarry]

is it the sempron

No, it's a A64 X2 5200+ or 5400+ or 6000+, AM2. Unsure if the mobo would take the AM3 Athlon II X4 635 chip that I've got here.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Ok, so say I leave the P4 junker the way it is, and re-install Win7 on the AM2/+ rig.

Which SSD should I use?

64GB Adata SP600 (new)
60GB Corsair Force LS refurb (ordered, haven't recieved)
50GB OCZ Vertex 2 refurb (really, NOS - Edit: New Old Stock, as in, I think it's new, but just sold as refurb, so they don't have to warranty it.)
120GB Crucial M500 (new)
128GB Crucial M550 (new)

 

[HalfCrazy]

Ok, so say I leave the P4 junker the way it is, and re-install Win7 on the AM2/+ rig.

Which SSD should I use?

64GB Adata SP600 (new)
60GB Corsair Force LS refurb (ordered, haven't recieved)
50GB OCZ Vertex 2 refurb (really, NOS)
120GB Crucial M500 (new)
128GB Crucial M550 (new)

Out of those SSD's I would choose one of the Crucial SSD. Comparing both Crucial SSD's the M550 scored little higher in benchmarks from what I seen over the M500.

 

[coercitiv]

Choose any except the NOS: speed bump (pun intended) will be impressive nonetheless.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think I'll use the M500 120GB drive. I had two of them, used one in a friend's machine (as an upgrade for a 30GB OCZ Agility SSD, cloned it over with EZ-Gig IV). Got one left.

I was kind of planning on saving the M550 128GB SSDs, I have three of them, for my three A4-6300 / FM2+ A55-chipset combos that I planned to build.

The funny thing is, the M500 cost me more than the M550s did. Oh well.

This job might end up being a "freebie". I wanted to motivate the client to let me show them the performance of an SSD, so I said I would do the job, if they would bring the PC over, and if they weren't happy with the results, they wouldn't have to pay me anything. Otherwise, it's worth $100 to me, which basically covers the cost of parts.

The distant hope is that they pay me to upgrade their other machines with SSDs, or perhaps, come to me for a custom build.

I was thinking though, many of those OEM AMD X2 machines from that era used an NV 6150/LE/SE/whatever chipset, which I don't believe supports AHCI. (Or maybe those do, but the NF4 def. didn't.) That might limit performance slightly. Also the SATA2 limitation. That makes me wonder if I should use the OCZ Vertex 2 50GB instead of the M500, if the M500's additional performance would be wasted. Plus, the OCZ cost me half of what the M500 cost me.

 

[hhhd1]

SSDs without TRIM and without AHCI are still much better than any harddisk in the same computer.

 

[escrow4]

I don't get old crappy parts. Slap a G1840 + H81 board + 120GB SSD and a 4GB RAM stick and you'll have a box that blows anything the client has away with a modern quiet setup. Emphasis on modern. Scrap both and give them something usable with 8.1. Mystery why you'd work on junk. That 1840 is $35 at Microcentre.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't get old crappy parts. Slap a G1840 + H81 board + 120GB SSD and a 4GB RAM stick and you'll have a box that blows anything the client has away with a modern quiet setup. Emphasis on modern. Scrap both and give them something usable with 8.1. Mystery why you'd work on junk. That 1840 is $35 at Microcentre.

Uhm, perhaps, because:

1) They don't want to scrap their working computers, and
2) They don't get along with Windows 8.1.

I know 2) painfully well, as I sold them a PC with Windows 8 on it, and they returned it. Couldn't handle 8/8.1.

And:
3) Honestly, if they're not gaming on the box, once an SSD is added, and sufficient RAM installed, performance of the CPU is secondary. An AMD X2 CPU, while not quite as speedy as a Haswell Pentium dual-core, is still pretty decent. Worlds better than Atom or Kabini.

Believe me, I've tried to sell them on a custom-built G3258 OCed rig with a nice SSD. Then they keep bringing up how they have this old P4 rig that they want to put Win7 on. (Heck, I just wanted them to come over to my place and check out my G3258 OCed rig with SSD, just to be able to experience the performance of it, at no cost to them other than a little time.)

Edit: Escrow4, that's the reality of the market, for ordinary non-enthusiast users. They don't see the need to always have the latest and greatest desktop PCs. Instead, they ride them until they are totally broken-down and un-fixable. Pity that that P4 box will probably last forever. I might get the chance to install Windows 10 32-bit on it, with 1GB of RAM. Joy.

 

[HalfCrazy]

I do computer repair for people now and then has a hobby. If something is not worth fixing/upgrading I tell them straight up.

Some people thinks you can just install a new OS on any old system and have a new computer. Then they come back and whine how slow the computer is running.

I refused to work on computers in the past cause they was not worth the trouble. They would only end up giving me a headache.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Let me just point out that in this thread, someone has a similar spec PC, an E5700 dual-core 775 rig with 4GB of RAM, and wanted to know if they should add an SSD.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2418394

The responses (including mine), were overwhelmingly positive. Even though the ICH7 doesn't, to my knowledge, support AHCI even.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, I'm looking to replace some LGA-775's -- Larry knows.

If the client wants to keep the P4, I'd tell him that it's not worth either an SSD or Win 7. If the client is a business, it's definitely time to dump it. It's long since exhausted its 3 or 5-year depreciation schedule.

I remember back in 2007, somebody came to me with a 1996 Pentium or Pentium II with Win 98 on it. I convinced them to "let go."