Vista vista vista

[fighterpilot]

I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to Vista since it keeps getting delayed, and don't plan on updating to it right away. I've learned my lesson with previous Windows versions. The most stable were Windows98SE and Windows XP SP2, which of course is indicative of the extensive patching.

Anyhow, was reading this article:

http://www.pcmech.com/show/kudos/919/

about Vista and my blood began to boil when I read:

"But in order to placate the piracy-paranoid MPAA, Microsoft had to put in a feature called PVP-OPM. Essentially, PVP-OPM means you have to have an HDCP (High-Definition Copy Protection) compliant monitor and an HDCP-compliant video card. If you have practically any LCD with DVI currently on the market today, it won't work; you'll have to buy a new one to run Vista. If you don't, you'll get a message that says "Monitor Revoked" and you won't be able to see anything on your screen. In other words, if you just dropped $1000 on a Dell 2405FPW, you'll have to upgrade to the HDCP-compliant 2407FPW to run Vista. I'm sure Dell will be happy to get your money a second time.

On top of that, you'll need a new video card, because even though many manufacturers were touting HDCP-compliant video cards, they were essentially lying about the cards' capabilities. You may have read about this scandal a few weeks back; suffice it to say that companies like ATI are now producing HDCP-compliant cards, but that they weren't just a short time ago and that even now you have to check that the card supports HDCP before you buy."

What a load of bunk! Maybe this has been news for some time, but is this for real?

I mean so many people have finally converted from CRT's to LCD's in the last year or so. Many people have dumped money to update their motherboard just to go to PCI-express. Now just to run a stupid operating system users will have to update EVERYTHING AGAIN???

Grrrrrrr. Microsoft blows hot donkey chunks.

 

[phisrow]

That contains a kernel of truth. Vista will run on non DRMed hardware; but it is designed to make it possible(and almost inevitable) for the nice chaps in Big Media to impose restrictions on the system. Specifically, the plan is that high resolution video will be sharply downgraded in quality over graphics cards and monitors that don't obey their restrictions.

The whole thing is a bloody mess, and can lead nowhere good; but it isn't like Vista won't boot without a new monitor.

 

[drag]

I think that people have backed down on this whole hdcp thing. It'll still exist for media folks that choose to use it, but it's being downplayed by folks like sony last I heard.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: phisrow
The whole thing is a bloody mess, and can lead nowhere good; but it isn't like Vista won't boot without a new monitor.

Also remember, the os, video card & monitor must support hdcp to get the full resolution from HD content. So this means anyone sticking with 2000, XP, Linux & OS X will have the same problem as people with vista and non hdcp hardware. I think I remember reading OS X will also get support but non of the other operating systems will.

 

[George Powell]

HD contect either via broadcast systems or HD-DVD/Bluray will likely need HDCP to run at fuall resolution. However there does appear to be some backing down on this from some areas, particularly because many of the people likely to buy into HD have bought High definition capable displays before the HDCP specification came along and these people will want to use component video rather than HDMI/DVI connections.

I personally am not too worried as I use my computers for computer type stuff rather than watching films or TV, I'll leave that to my home cinema setup in the lounge.

 

[George Powell]

HD contect either via broadcast systems or HD-DVD/Bluray will likely need HDCP to run at fuall resolution. However there does appear to be some backing down on this from some areas, particularly because many of the people likely to buy into HD have bought High definition capable displays before the HDCP specification came along and these people will want to use component video rather than HDMI/DVI connections.

I personally am not too worried as I use my computers for computer type stuff rather than watching films or TV, I'll leave that to my home cinema setup in the lounge.

 

[spyordie007]

Grrrrrrr. Microsoft blows hot donkey chunks.

No. The MPAA blows hot donkey chunks.

If you want to watch the new HD-DVD content on any computer system the software and every piece of hardware along the way will need need to be complient, regardless of what OS it's running. Windows Vista just happens to be the first Microsoft OS with support for it.

Seriously, are you going to go and b!tch at Apple because OS 10.5 is going to support it? Why yes you will have to replace your "old" $2500 30" Apple Cinema Display with a new one that supports the HD content if you want to watch it on your Mac. Grrrrrrr. Apple blows hot donkey chunks.

It's been discussed to death already anyways, use the search feature.

 

[stash]

That paragraph is full of lies and misleading statements. Do a search, and you will find that you will not need to buy a new monitor or video card to run Vista.

 

[doornail]

I had the hardest time remembering the acronym HDCP until saw someone refer to it as "HanDiCaP". ;-P

I don't think it's a case of Sony and friends backing off -- they are simply delaying implementation. It would stunt sales to have everyone with a non-HDCP compliant television raising hell all over the net. Once the market is solid then they'll abuse it.

 

[bsobel]

"But in order to placate the piracy-paranoid MPAA, Microsoft had to put in a feature called PVP-OPM. Essentially, PVP-OPM means you have to have an HDCP (High-Definition Copy Protection) compliant monitor and an HDCP-compliant video card. If you have practically any LCD with DVI currently on the market today, it won't work; you'll have to buy a new one to run Vista. If you don't, you'll get a message that says "Monitor Revoked" and you won't be able to see anything on your screen.

Just misinformation. The only way HDCP applies is if you are using high def content and if you do NOT have a secure path all the way to the display, the content owner can set falgs indicating what to do (not show the content, or downres the content to about the quality of current DVDs). This has nothing *at all* to do with booting Vista or accessing current content, only new hi-def content that requires DRM.

Further, it's not a Vista issue, it's true of all hardware and OS vendors.

Bill

 

[UMfanatic2k6]

I havent read much on Vista, because I made the mistake of upgrading from 3.1 to 95 right away and spent a year dealing with errors, and went from 98 to xp that was ok but still some errors, I currently dropped alot of money on my computer the way it is an do not plan on upgrading anything other than maybe to x64 anytime soon, I am still scratching my head as to how I spent 550 bucks on the X800 XT when it first came out, although it rocked and still does, but to have to upgrade monitor and video card would mean I had to upgrade motherboards because my socket 939 still uses AGP, so I think people would almost protest the release if that were truly the case, besides does anyone want to trust something that was originaly called windows longhorn

 

[stash]

^^
Congratulations for posting the single longest runon sentence I've ever seen.

Again, you don't need to upgrade your video card (unless it is REALLY old) or monitor to run Vista. This only concerns playing protected high defintion content on your computer, which, as noted umpteen times here and all over the Internet, will apply to all operating systems that choose to implement it.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: spyordie007

Grrrrrrr. Microsoft blows hot donkey chunks.

No. The MPAA blows hot donkey chunks.

If you want to watch the new HD-DVD content on any computer system the software and every piece of hardware along the way will need need to be complient, regardless of what OS it's running. Windows Vista just happens to be the first Microsoft OS with support for it.

Seriously, are you going to go and b!tch at Apple because OS 10.5 is going to support it? Why yes you will have to replace your "old" $2500 30" Apple Cinema Display with a new one that supports the HD content if you want to watch it on your Mac. Grrrrrrr. Apple blows hot donkey chunks.

It's been discussed to death already anyways, use the search feature.

Exactly... It's not Microsoft that's forcing HDCP on the public, it's the movie industry (MPAA). If you want to blame someone blame them. All Microsoft & Apple are doing is supporting what the MPAA is forcing on us.

 

[spyordie007]

besides does anyone want to trust something that was originaly called windows longhorn

That sounds like a great idea, lets all judge software based entirely on what we think of the codename!

Ever heard of Cairo, Whistler, Symphony, Magneto, Titanium or XDocs? How about Bon Echo, Jaguire, Panther, Tiger, Opal, Bordeaux, etc. (I could go on forever).

Seriously there is more than enough FUD out there already, how about some useful posts?

 

[doornail]

Originally posted by: stash
This only concerns playing protected high defintion content on your computer, which, as noted umpteen times here and all over the Internet, will apply to all operating systems that choose to implement it.

That sounds good except that Microsoft is a technology partner in all these shennanigans. They have licensed technology in HD-DVD and Bluray and stand to profit from their adoption. So they'll ship Vista as a shiny DRM/Trusted Computing platform and enjoy yet more lock-in PLUS dividends.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: UMfanatic2k6
I havent read much on Vista, because I made the mistake of upgrading from 3.1 to 95 right away and spent a year dealing with errors, and went from 98 to xp that was ok but still some errors, I currently dropped alot of money on my computer the way it is an do not plan on upgrading anything other than maybe to x64 anytime soon, I am still scratching my head as to how I spent 550 bucks on the X800 XT when it first came out, although it rocked and still does, but to have to upgrade monitor and video card would mean I had to upgrade motherboards because my socket 939 still uses AGP, so I think people would almost protest the release if that were truly the case, besides does anyone want to trust something that was originaly called windows longhorn

if you dont have a blu-ray or hd-dvd drive in your pc you dont have to worry about playing protected content anyways.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: spyordie007

besides does anyone want to trust something that was originaly called windows longhorn

That sounds like a great idea, lets all judge software based entirely on what we think of the codename!

Ever heard of Cairo, Whistler, Symphony, Magneto, Titanium or XDocs? How about Bon Echo, Jaguire, Panther, Tiger, Opal, Bordeaux, etc. (I could go on forever).

Seriously there is more than enough FUD out there already, how about some useful posts?

Dont forget the best code name ever 'butt head astronomer'

 

[stash]

They have licensed technology in HD-DVD and Bluray and stand to profit from their adoption. So they'll ship Vista as a shiny DRM/Trusted Computing platform and enjoy yet more lock-in PLUS dividends.

They'll profit from it???! The horror!

The consumer holds the ball here. If they OMG PR0FIT!! from it, that sure sounds like it's something consumers want. Apple's coffers sure aren't bare from FairPlay.

 

[stash]

Dont forget the best code name ever 'butt head astronomer'

Or 'Lawyers Are Wimps'

 

[kylef]

Originally posted by: doornail
That sounds good except that Microsoft is a technology partner in all these shennanigans. They have licensed technology in HD-DVD and Bluray and stand to profit from their adoption. So they'll ship Vista as a shiny DRM/Trusted Computing platform and enjoy yet more lock-in PLUS dividends.

I think if you took a poll around MS, you would find that many employees don't like the way DRM is headed. However, the current legal environment means that the content owners/distributors get to set the platform requirements.

Microsoft, Apple, and to a limited extent Linux must either develop a platform that complies with these demands, or they don't get to use the content legally (e.g., Linux).

So Microsoft and Apple have basically agreed to work with the content companies to create DRM solutions that make the content industry happy. Whether or not customers will buy these solutions remains to be seen. (Although you could say that FairPlay has been relatively successful for Apple.)

If Congress were to pass a law tomorrow banning DRM, Microsoft would not be that upset (other than lamenting the wasted efforts). It's the content industry that would be screaming.

 

[stash]

^^

This is true, except Congress won't do anything for various reasons. The big one being they are in the content providers pockets, but another being consumers have made anything but a big stink about it. iTunes has over a billion sold, and it has one of the most draconian DRM schemes out there (you are locked to a single device).

Maybe consumers will object to the HD DRM in Vista in large numbers, but I doubt it. Most Vista users won't even realize it's there.

 

[couppi]

How is having HDCP compliant componants going to stop piracy? It's probably just to get people to go out and buy one of these expensive monitors so the MPAA gets money from the use of the standard.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: couppi
How is having HDCP compliant componants going to stop piracy? It's probably just to get people to go out and buy one of these expensive monitors so the MPAA gets money from the use of the standard.

The content is encrypted at every point all the way until the display renders it, meaning there isn't yet a way to tap that stream and pirate the content.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: bsobel
The content is encrypted at every point all the way until the display renders it, meaning there isn't yet a way to tap that stream and pirate the content.

You don't seriously think it's going to stay that way do you? All it takes is for a few people to bypass it and distribute the content.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: bsobel
The content is encrypted at every point all the way until the display renders it, meaning there isn't yet a way to tap that stream and pirate the content.

You don't seriously think it's going to stay that way do you? All it takes is for a few people to bypass it and distribute the content.

a) No, I presume it will be broken
b) A few people bypassing it and distributing the content is managable (they'll be sued)
c) It's a widespread break like DeCSS that would be the real issue