Vista wont install on my workstation

[MrMiyagi]

Been using XP pro for years on new builds, fresh reformats. Must have installed it 50 times at least between new builds for friends on all sorts of different comps over the years. Never had one problem.

A buddy gave me his HP XW8200 workstation (Dual Xeon 3.4, 2 gig ram, 250 gig SATA HDD)

I've got two versions of Vista from my college bookstore I've been sitting on (Ultimate and Business). So I figure hey...let put this on my new (yet old) setup.

Ultimate gets partway through and gives me some error message about "could not set the offline locale". Kind of installs...then tells me bootmgr is missing. I rebuild the bootmgr in command prompt only to get a little further with more "unexpected" windows errors. Then I pop the server HDD into my Black X case on my old comp and it's corrupted. Reformat in XP, put back in server and try again. Same thing....corrupts the HDD again. I try out the Business version with the same results. I try a new HDD (500 gig SATA) and same results...I try a new DVD drive and same results.

Finally I put in my XP Pro...bam...installs from boot and I have Windows up and running in 15 minutes.

Is Vista that crappy? I can't imagine what is going on during the install.

I'll probably just stick with XP I guess...although I'm debating trying to do an in windows upgrade from the ultimate disc to see what happens. I'm betting more hard drive corruption and errors...

 

[SammySnood]

Years ago I had the same sort of thing happen to me when I was trying to go from Windows 2000 Pro to Windows XP Pro on a laptop. I could consistently install Windows 2000 on the thing, but not XP. What I was getting was hard drive corruption issues, even though the HD and its controller checked out fine. It turned out to be a problematic memory module. It wouldn't fail a Memtest diagnostic, but it did fail a check in an actual hardware tester. I replaced the memory, and the XP install went fine. The laptop ran XP for 5 years with no problems after that. Until a security guy at a client's office dropped it.

PS: Just thought I'd add the fact that I'm really a Linux / BSD guy, but I have no problem with Vista or 7. They look pretty good to me. I'm not planning on using them on any of my personal systems, though.

 

[MrMiyagi]

Hmmm...if that is the case I'm hoping that dropping $90 today on 4 gigs to replace it works

 

[SammySnood]

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
Hmmm...if that is the case I'm hoping that dropping $90 today on 4 gigs to replace it works

Ouch! Can you return the memory and get your money back -- or use it in another system, maybe -- if it doesn't work?

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
[...] only to get a little further with more "unexpected" windows errors [...]

Originally posted by: SammySnood
Years ago I had the same sort of thing happen to me[...]

It turned out to be a problematic memory module [...]

Good job, detective!

I've had (something like) this happen to me a few times too, over the years - different machines - different versions of Windows.

In my experience, multiple (and varied) "unexpected Windows errors" almost always turn out to be hardware related.

Sometimes it was a memory problem (bad RAM) - or a memory setting (wrong voltage) - a weak PS (on the verge of failure), bad sectors on the HDD (in the boot sector), corrupt CMOS (requiring flashing), dead backup battery on the mobo, dirty card edges (where they plug into the slots), flaky cables (burnt/dirty power pins), CPU (not seated properly), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... and the list goes on.

I'm with SammySnood on this one - this walks, talks, quacks like a hardware issue!

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
A buddy gave me his HP XW8200 workstation (Dual Xeon 3.4, 2 gig ram, 250 gig SATA HDD) [...]

LoL!

Maybe you know WHY he gave it away now... :laugh:

 

[MrMiyagi]

Originally posted by: SammySnood

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
Hmmm...if that is the case I'm hoping that dropping $90 today on 4 gigs to replace it works

Ouch! Can you return the memory and get your money back -- or use it in another system, maybe -- if it doesn't work?

I dont' know...it takes Registered DDR2...I found some Kingston on newegg but it's realatively costly. Hopefully they'll return it if it doesnt work. I don't have anywhere local that would have old Registered DDR2 server RAM.

Maybe I'll pop out a stick and try installing the OS to find out which one of the 1 gigs is bad...

 

[SammySnood]

Maybe I'll pop out a stick and try installing the OS to find out which one of the 1 gigs is bad...

That's a better idea, I think.

It seems that your Windows installs were happening more or less consistently at a specific point of the installation. If I didn't misunderstand and that is the correct idea of what you were seeing, then I think that's really a hallmark of memory module issues. If the problem were the hard drive itself I'd think the results would be a bit more random.

During the install process the read process from optical disc is cached to memory and then written to the HD. If a section of the memory is flakey, you'll see the failure occur at exactly the same point every time you install because the cache is screwed up at exactly the same point. When the memory contents get written to the HD you get corrupted writes to the disk.

At least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. But I'd rather see you prove it the cheap way than the expensive way.

I knew someone who made the mistake of replacing a whole crapload of RDRAM and getting burned because the problem wasn't memory. On the other hand, you couldn't just remove one stick of RDRAM at a time and test on that system.

 

[MrMiyagi]

Spent all night trying each stick individually. Neither worked on their own, but neither gave the same error in the same spot either. This thing is turning out to be a major chore.

XP installs...I think I'm sticking to that for the rest of this comps miserable life
(course it's better than my most recent build...P4 2.4 ghz with a gig of ram)

 

[kevbot]

Finally I put in my XP Pro...bam...installs from boot and I have Windows up and running in 15 minutes.

Nobody has installed any OS and had it up and running in 15 minutes.. bullshit.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: kevbot
Nobody has installed any OS and had it up and running in 15 minutes.. bullshit.

Well, Vista comes close.

 

[SammySnood]

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
Spent all night trying each stick individually. Neither worked on their own, but neither gave the same error in the same spot either. This thing is turning out to be a major chore.

XP installs...I think I'm sticking to that for the rest of this comps miserable life
(course it's better than my most recent build...P4 2.4 ghz with a gig of ram)

So you had an install failure at different points with the two modules? Did multiple install attempts with each module always fail at the same point, or was failure happening at inconsistent points?

And, yeah, there may be something intrinsic to the system (particular hardware combination?) that just isn't going to tolerate a Vista installation. It might be instructive to try a different type of installation, like a PXE boot with network installation to see what happens. Also, did you look to see if there might be BIOS updates for the system board?

The problem is that, if there is a memory or controller problem of some type that allows you to succeed with a WinXP installation, you may see other issues while using the system: data corruption, hard lockups, etc.

OS on! OS off! OS on! OS off!

g,d&r

 

[MrMiyagi]

Originally posted by: SammySnood

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
Spent all night trying each stick individually. Neither worked on their own, but neither gave the same error in the same spot either. This thing is turning out to be a major chore.

XP installs...I think I'm sticking to that for the rest of this comps miserable life
(course it's better than my most recent build...P4 2.4 ghz with a gig of ram)

So you had an install failure at different points with the two modules? Did multiple install attempts with each module always fail at the same point, or was failure happening at inconsistent points?

And, yeah, there may be something intrinsic to the system (particular hardware combination?) that just isn't going to tolerate a Vista installation. It might be instructive to try a different type of installation, like a PXE boot with network installation to see what happens. Also, did you look to see if there might be BIOS updates for the system board?

The problem is that, if there is a memory or controller problem of some type that allows you to succeed with a WinXP installation, you may see other issues while using the system: data corruption, hard lockups, etc.

OS on! OS off! OS on! OS off!

g,d&r

Kevbot...thx for joining the thread....really constructive comments there chief.

SS: basically the errors seemed to be inconsistent and I didn't write them all down

The MB only has two SATA slots (I think) and I'm installing from both my SATA DVD drive and SATA HDD. I wonder if using IDE on both might work.

I don't really know how to network install (PXE?)

Also, now that I have XP installed, are there any good diagnostic progs to run within windows?

Thanks

I don't really know how to netowrk install (PXE Boot?)

 

[Genx87]

Do you have a USB stick installed on the initial boot? I have seen issues with USB memory sticks and installs of Vista + Win2008. They have a KB article on it which basically explains remove the the USB memory stick during the install.

 

[Mem]

I did a quick google search on this and there was different solutions with some you have tried ie new HD,anyway some of the ideas was like check date and time in BIOS is correct ,replace CMOS battery with a new one,remove all USB devices and try a minimal hardware install.

Quite intriguing this problem,anyway I hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[MrMiyagi]

No USB stick installed. I am installing with a USB keyboard and mouse though. I thought about it....maybe time to go back to basics and install with IDE and PS2 mouse/keyboard.

I have tried two HD's...the one WD 250 gig SATA the box came with and a new 500 gig Seagate SATA. It was odd though...I never got very far on the install with the new seagate...which totally doesnt make sense.

Time and date in BIOS is correct. How do I tell if the CMOS batter is dead or having a problem?

Thanks

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: MrMiyagi
No USB stick installed. I am installing with a USB keyboard and mouse though. I thought about it....maybe time to go back to basics and install with IDE and PS2 mouse/keyboard.

I have tried two HD's...the one WD 250 gig SATA the box came with and a new 500 gig Seagate SATA. It was odd though...I never got very far on the install with the new seagate...which totally doesnt make sense.

Time and date in BIOS is correct. How do I tell if the CMOS batter is dead or having a problem?

Thanks

It could be weak or almost flat,since they are very cheap anyway I would just replace it with a new one,I would change or try new IDE,SATA cables as well to rule out faulty ones.


Memtest86+ as well to test ram,think its time we went back to basics.

 

[SammySnood]

Most good hardware diagnostics I have personal experience with are not Windows executables. They generally run from a minimalist environment (like a text mode app running on top of Linux) so as not to have a complex graphical user environment having an effect upon the testing. Even those diagnostics can fail to detect a subtle hardware flaw. An example in point would be the fact that the memory modules of that old laptop I mentioned before passed heavy memtest86 testing for about 72 hours without failure, but they still needed to be replaced to get WinXP to install on that laptop. (And they still showed as not good in a hardware memory tester.)

So far as a network install is concerned, the one that I've used with Windows is RIS. You have to have a PXE-enabled BIOS on the target system. You boot the system via the PXE feature, and it connects to its installation source (MS Remote Installation Services) on the network. That's kind of a big project for home use (but I've done it just for grins). I only mentioned it in case you already knew about it and had the resources available. Considering the effort involved, it's probably a case of diminishing returns for the investment of time and effort. Unless, of course, you're interested in doing it as a learning exercise. Then it's [almost] always worth it. The process is well-documented by MS, and it works well.

Please do check the BIOS firmware revision number to be sure it's the latest available from the vendor for the system. I seem to remember various boards needing BIOS updates to get Vista to work.

Genx87 and Mem are both mentioning the fact that various USB devices have been known to get in the way of these operating systems at installation time. I had heard of that and forgotten it.

The SATA HD could be tested in another system as one type of alternative approach to the diagnosis. My gut feeling on this is that it's a memory module (both of them, even though quite a coincidence) issue, a memory controller issue, or a BIOS issue. Just doesn't seem like a drive thing to me if I'm not misinterpreting what you've reported. The possibility of a drive issue (unless it's the optical reader) failing at exactly the same point in the installation process over and over again is not something I've ever seen. And the fact that this failure point changed when you changed memory configuration is particularly indicative of this, I think.

A definitive hardware diagnostic on something like this can be pretty hard to do without test equipment -- which I have little experience with. (Memory testers are pretty easy to use, though.) It's probably going to be worth it to nail the problem down if you have plans to use the system for anything important. I think that, even though you got XP installed, a problem with slightly wonky hardware may rear its ugly head again even while running XP.

Edit: Yeah, came back and re-noticed (Damn, I'm flakey these days.) that you had already tried different HDs. So some of my post doesn't make sense. Heck, for all I know, none of it makes sense. Old and forgetful and probably senile.

 

[Genx87]

USB KB and Mice are fine. But for some reason a USB memory stick will bork the install on some machines, if not every one. It explains why in the KB article. But I can remember off the top of my head.

 

[Jeff7181]

Love how Vista automatically becomes the culprit.

You might try setting the BIOS to defaults. I had something similar happen with XP back in the day. Would get part way through installation and BSOD at the same point every time. I had my memory timing set to what the modules were rated for because SPD gave a slightly different (worse) setting than what the manufacturer said they could do. When I set it to SPD the install went fine. Set it back to the rated timings after the installation and never had a problem. That PC is actually running Vista now too...

 

[MrMiyagi]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Love how Vista automatically becomes the culprit.

You might try setting the BIOS to defaults. I had something similar happen with XP back in the day. Would get part way through installation and BSOD at the same point every time. I had my memory timing set to what the modules were rated for because SPD gave a slightly different (worse) setting than what the manufacturer said they could do. When I set it to SPD the install went fine. Set it back to the rated timings after the installation and never had a problem. That PC is actually running Vista now too...

Yeah I know...I'm not really ragging on the OS...just frustrated. But, obviously want to try it out considering I've got a new computer and two copies of it sitting around.

 

[MrMiyagi]

BTW: As Borat would say "Grrrreat Success!"

I got Vista Ultimate installed without a hitch! After trying all kinds of silly things finally.

Bad thing is I cant tell you exactly what change made the difference...but it is one of two.

I updated the XW8200 BIOS (it was hard as hell to find as HP's site wasnt giving me the files...I randomly found some installer online which happened to have the BIOS file and an option of updating within XP environment...glad I didn't have to go yank a floppy out of some old comp in the garage)
Put the IDE DVD drive back in and put an old IDE HDD in.

Viola....Vista installed IDE to IDE style without any errors and is running no problem.

Just not sure if it was the BIOS update or the IDE HDD switch. Either way it works! I'm just glad the RAM is probably without issues. Are there SATA controller problems...dunno but might find out later.

Thanks for the help all.

 

[VinDSL]

We had to protect Vista's reputation!

LoL!

Glad it worked out for you...

 

[SammySnood]

BTW: As Borat would say "Grrrreat Success!"

That's funny. I hope it all works out now.

That's the kind of "victory" that can drive you nuts, though. If the system just runs without any problems, then it's not going to bug you. But if you start seeing weird little hard-to-explain gotchas here and there, it's gonna drive you up the wall trying to figure it out.

That's actually a great system -- especially considering that you got it free. I hope you have a blast fiddling with Vista. I've found it to be a pretty robust OS, actually more reliable in most ways than Linux. (I didn't turn off security or access control features when I was using it. Nor did I install anything but solid, reliable software.)

I just use Linux and BSD because I'm hooked on them -- especially running the simple Xfce desktop environment. My needs are simple, kind of like my mind. I admin and communicate with them. I just don't need bells and whistles, and I enjoy an OS that is configurable right down to its most basic features.

Have fun with the new toys!

 

[MrMiyagi]

For sure I'll have fun with it....although I already had to burn some $ on it...for victory's sake. Late last night I bought another 2 gig of RAM (for a total of four....not going to go over that). And a super cheap 9600 GSO which was like 34 bones after rebate