Vista's Tougher Anti-Piracy Feature

[corkyg]

Looks like Microsoft is seriously trying to reduce piracy. New systems with OEM bundled Vista will be pre-activated.

ZD

 

[InlineFive]

To me it looks exactly like what Windows XP and 2003 have. Nothing new.

 

[nweaver]

they are eliminating VLK's, that is a huge deal, and potentially a large impact on the business world.

Understandably, VLK's are the most abused of any. I keep mine under lock and key.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: InlineFive
To me it looks exactly like what Windows XP and 2003 have. Nothing new.

Limiting your system usability and partial disabling is new. That doesn't happen with XP - the worst that happens is your XP turns in to a pumpkin. Now, your whole system can be locked in time. Solution? Have a backup HDD on hand or be legit.

 

[RebateMonger]

Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact...

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: nweaver
activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact...

From what I can tell, MS has a system to minimize the impact (VLK licensing proxy servers).

You, of course, have a "special" problem because of what you do. Hopefully, there's a way to keep it simple. But, for "normal" corporations, the cost to activate a PC, even if it has to be done TOTALLY manually, would be tiny compared to the total cost of installing a new PC (purchasing licenses, creating new accounts and permissions, training, physically installing and connecting the box, installing Antivirus, and a jillion other things that I haven't even thought about).

I hate licensing and activation as much as anybody (maybe even more so). But I hate even more the mess that it's become because of MS's belated attempt to stop piracy induced by its original "OEMs and VLKs don't need to be activated" decision. MS's ever-changing policies with XP are causing much more anger among users than the original XP Retail version activation scheme ever did.

 

[stash]

There should be several docs on MSDN describing how to use MAKs and VLK activation. It really isn't a big deal at all, and actually helps enterprises keep track of their licenses.

VLKs are not going away, as stated above.

 

[Smilin]

Also, a persistent text will display in the lower right hand of the screen: "This copy of Windows is not genuine."

hehe, that'll get em. Kinda like the old Novell trick of broadcasting to every node on the network when the server wasn't legit.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: stash
There should be several docs on MSDN describing how to use MAKs and VLK activation. It really isn't a big deal at all, and actually helps enterprises keep track of their licenses.

VLKs are not going away, as stated above.

great, do I now get a free server with my VLK, to put the MAK on?


good thing we won't be moving for at least a year (probably more). I need to find the load generating client for Linux, and I'll just start doing that perhaps.

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact...

Ask for a pay raise...

 

[Quinton McLeod]

This news doesn't really affect anything. Just like the WGA notices on Windows XP, this activation thing on Vista will get hacked. WGA was hacked so quickly that it barely made an effect on the pirated versions of XP out there. I highly doubt that this will.

 

[stash]

Don't count on activation being hacked so easily. WGA and activation are quite different.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
This news doesn't really affect anything. Just like the WGA notices on Windows XP, this activation thing on Vista will get hacked. WGA was hacked so quickly that it barely made an effect on the pirated versions of XP out there. I highly doubt that this will.

I'm legit, I don't want to hack. There should be no need for legitimate users to hack this (just like I haven't with any other activation/WGA stuff)

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

I'm with you on this, I work at a collage that does hardware classes and this could cost us time and money....

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

I'm with you on this, I work at a collage that does hardware classes and this could cost us time and money....

So by Microsoft keeping the OEM/VLK as is, without having to activate is going to cost you money? How so? Rebate is for MS NOT allowing OEMs/VLKs to avoid activation.

 

[tyanni]

I have to agree - in an educational institution or other place with labs, machines are often imaged 3 - 4 times a day. Unless MS is planning on making this as easy as it is now, its going to be a real pain in the a$$ and a real turn off to switching from XP to Vista.

 

[Ryoga]

I expect it will be rolled into computer authentication to a domain controller. It's going to be wholly transparent if you set it up right.

Microsoft has never been so stupid as to screw the corporate customers just to make their lives easier for dealing with home user piracy.

 

[glugglug]

Reduced "functionality" = reduced bloatware, right? And Firefox should let you go everywhere, just not IE....

So if you don't activate Vista for 30 days, it will speed up?

 

[stash]

RTFA.

And if you think Vista is such crap, why would you care about pirating it?

 

[RebateMonger]

A client where I just installed an SBS 2003 Server asked me to wipe an XP Professional box and re-install their software. Well, it turned out that the local PC builder (now out of business) had sold them pirated XP and MS Office. Besides stealing some of their AutoCAD licenses along the way....

It's a shame when folks SELL pirated software to the unwary. If folks want to challenge Microsoft and hack activation on their own, that's between them and Microsoft. But it's sad to take money from trusting people and give them pirated software in return.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
A client where I just installed an SBS 2003 Server asked me to wipe an XP Professional box and re-install their software. Well, it turned out that the local PC builder (now out of business) had sold them pirated XP and MS Office. Besides stealing some of their AutoCAD licenses along the way....

It's a shame when folks SELL pirated software to the unwary. If folks want to challenge Microsoft and hack activation on their own, that's between them and Microsoft. But it's sad to take money from trusting people and give them pirated software in return.

indeed, but that has nothing to do with legit users of VLK. Go after the people who sell pirated software, I've always considered that somthing MS should be doing. Making me buy (yet another) full license for Windows server, and more iron to run it, just to keep doing what we have always been doing is rubbing me wrong. Not to mention, do I have to buy a CAL for each computer that may activate through that server? We have 600 desktops, ~100 servers, and look to be doubling those numbers in the next 8-12 months. Do I need 1200CALS to continue to do business? Looks like it will be a fresh Vista install/push image every time we want to perform Vista testing, as then we have 30 days to do stuff. As it is now, I haven't made a new image from scratch in about a year. more time and money (and I blame the damn pirates as much as MS)

 

[stash]

You don't need another full server to run activation. My understanding is that it would require a Vista client, but I'm not sure about that. Regardless, it has a tiny footprint, and is not intended to be run on a dedicated server. That's way overkill, even for huge organizations.

Not to mention, do I have to buy a CAL for each computer that may activate through that server? We have 600 desktops, ~100 servers, and look to be doubling those numbers in the next 8-12 months. Do I need 1200CALS to continue to do business?

You have to do that today. There may not be a process today that actually keeps track of your licenses, but you are required to have as many licenses as you have clients.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: corkyg
Limiting your system usability and partial disabling is new. That doesn't happen with XP - the worst that happens is your XP turns in to a pumpkin. Now, your whole system can be locked in time. Solution? Have a backup HDD on hand or be legit.

Solution: Buy the damn software and don't worry about it.

Of course, that assumes Microsoft tunes the WGA protocol so it doesn't reject VALID, purchased license keys.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: stash
You don't need another full server to run activation. My understanding is that it would require a Vista client, but I'm not sure about that. Regardless, it has a tiny footprint, and is not intended to be run on a dedicated server. That's way overkill, even for huge organizations.

Not to mention, do I have to buy a CAL for each computer that may activate through that server? We have 600 desktops, ~100 servers, and look to be doubling those numbers in the next 8-12 months. Do I need 1200CALS to continue to do business?

You have to do that today. There may not be a process today that actually keeps track of your licenses, but you are required to have as many licenses as you have clients.

I have licenses for all my machines, I'm wondering if I have to have a CAL for every machine accessing the activation server.

As it is now, the only servers they access are covered under my MSDN licensing (for testing/QA only)