Vista's Tougher Anti-Piracy Feature

[stash]

Ah, I see what you're saying. That's actually a good question. Let me see if I can find out.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: corkyg
the worst that happens is your XP turns in to a pumpkin.

If this happens it wasn't your XP (or Vista) to begin with.

Your XP (or Vista) will never turn into a pumpkin.






(I'm quoting you out of context for my own purpose Corkyg and don't dispute your original statement)

 

[corkyg]

I understand your purpose - and I agree with it. But - the point is that even if your XP is legit, and your Vista is also legit, you are at risk after 30 days if you don't activate.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: corkyg
I understand your purpose - and I agree with it. But - the point is that even if your XP is legit, and your Vista is also legit, you are at risk after 30 days if you don't activate.

Yeah. It's a bummer.

Heck I work at MS and I hate having to activate stuff. What else are ya gonna do though? There are more pirated copies of Windows worldwide than legit ones. MS has put a GREAT deal of effort into making the process as easy as possible.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Heck I work at MS and I hate having to activate stuff. What else are ya gonna do though? There are more pirated copies of Windows worldwide than legit ones. MS has put a GREAT deal of effort into making the process as easy as possible.

Someday I would hope to see the activation be automatic at the point of installation. Would it be possible to use a holographic or digital coding in the disk hub, much like a Lightscribe drive senses a Lightscribe disk? IOW, only a MS factory produced disk would have it.

True, that could be pirated, but not easily by Joe Sixpack, and it would be expensive. If that were possible, I think it would reduce piracy.

 

[stash]

Activation in Vista is a lot more painless than XP or 2003. As long as you leave the activate automatically box checked during setup, it will automatically activate after three days.

Remember that 95% of Windows users will never have to deal with this.

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

I'm with you on this, I work at a collage that does hardware classes and this could cost us time and money....

So by Microsoft keeping the OEM/VLK as is, without having to activate is going to cost you money? How so? Rebate is for MS NOT allowing OEMs/VLKs to avoid activation.

Quoted the wrong post... I ment to quote this one.

"activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact... "

 

[Doom Machine]

i thougth the ultimate edition wont need activation, hope they dont limit the number of activations forcing me to call and do that long boring phone thing..i reinstall alot

 

[stash]

All versions require activation.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
i thougth the ultimate edition wont need activation, hope they dont limit the number of activations forcing me to call and do that long boring phone thing..i reinstall alot

don't reinstall a lot, problem solved and you can spend your time doing a lot more useful things

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: corkyg
Would it be possible to use a holographic or digital coding in the disk hub, much like a Lightscribe drive senses a Lightscribe disk? IOW, only a MS factory produced disk would have it.

I'd prefer to have Microsoft allow downloading of all of their OSes. MS' Product Activation and WGA are able to limit installation/activation of multiple copies using the same Key. So, make it easy to get the media, at least.

Right now, not only do we have to deal with WGA and Activation, but we ALSO have to try to obtain original factory media before we can do an install. It's the worst of both worlds.

 

[Vampirrella]

Originally posted by: nweaver
they are eliminating VLK's, that is a huge deal, and potentially a large impact on the business world.

Understandably, VLK's are the most abused of any. I keep mine under lock and key.

AMEN to that!

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
i thougth the ultimate edition wont need activation, hope they dont limit the number of activations forcing me to call and do that long boring phone thing..i reinstall alot

don't reinstall a lot, problem solved and you can spend your time doing a lot more useful things

that doesnt solve anything

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

I'm with you on this, I work at a collage that does hardware classes and this could cost us time and money....

So by Microsoft keeping the OEM/VLK as is, without having to activate is going to cost you money? How so? Rebate is for MS NOT allowing OEMs/VLKs to avoid activation.

Quoted the wrong post... I ment to quote this one.

"activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact... "

because if all 600 of my machines start asking for activation, and I have issues (because that VLK has been activated 30 times before that year) and it takes me time, we have downtime in the lab (customers waiting), it creates backlog, customers get upset because the time they paid for in the lab they aren't getting, etc....

Right now we get around that by getting VLK licenses with our MSDN's for XP, 2k3 and office. We are also VERY VERY carefull who has access to the install media/keys, and where they get used (i.e. no non-test lab use). Our corp IT guy works hard to ensure that all software in use on the corp stuff is legit, and up to date.

Again, I'm not saying that MS has no right to try and curb casual privacy (I know they do) I am just hoping they help us enterprise level/MSDN subs, so that we don't end up with lost revenue due to the new time/requirements.

 

[stash]

VLKs as they are today are not the source of "casual piracy" VLKs are a major source of the $20 billion in lost revenue that piracy represents.

 

[nweaver]

tbh, hold a company fically responsible for their VLK's....

I have had several people over the years ask me for XP VLK for "my home computer, comeon, no one will know..." (usually temps/contractors). I usually check in/check out my VLK CD's (it's slipstreamed into the disk) and don't let folks access the key themselves. Hell, most of the time they need XP, I just push out a premade image. Point being, MS is risking direct revenue for some companies with this. As it is, we will now have to raise rates for everyone, to compensate for the new iron/non MSDN OS to run this, and time that we risk losing long term.

 

[Doom Machine]

"potential" lost revenue

no one can say for sure that the people who pirate a software would in fact actually buy it if they could not pirate it.

there has been no evidence to show that any company has went bankrupt due to piracy

every software can get pirated..so will vista

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
. . . No one can say for sure that the people who pirate a software would in fact actually buy it if they could not pirate it. There has been no evidence to show that any company has went [sic] bankrupt due to piracy. Every software can get pirated..so will vista

That is probably true. However, it can be a serious problem for a business to get caught. After the criminal charges and possible jail time for some who allowed it, there are also civil litigations that can follow and extract pecuniary damages.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: *kjm

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Nah. This is totally new stuff. I've long thought that MS should NOT allow OEMs to avoid activation. And that VLK should require some sort of activation.

These two steps will stop the majority of casual piracy and should make life much easier for those who have to support these things. Licensing has for XP has become a mess and bad PR. Requiring activation for OEM and VLK Vista software will (hopefully) stop these painful problems at birth.

I'm with you on this, I work at a collage that does hardware classes and this could cost us time and money....

So by Microsoft keeping the OEM/VLK as is, without having to activate is going to cost you money? How so? Rebate is for MS NOT allowing OEMs/VLKs to avoid activation.

Quoted the wrong post... I ment to quote this one.

"activation for VLK's will suck. I manage a test lab, and we have VLK's as part of our MSDN sub. Do you have any idea how often we are imaging/changing hardware/installing/etc on these machines? If all of a sudden, the random "I think you should activate" thing pops up on all 600 desktop's in the lab....we are talking thousands of dollers, per incident. Huge potential impact... "

because if all 600 of my machines start asking for activation, and I have issues (because that VLK has been activated 30 times before that year) and it takes me time, we have downtime in the lab (customers waiting), it creates backlog, customers get upset because the time they paid for in the lab they aren't getting, etc....

Right now we get around that by getting VLK licenses with our MSDN's for XP, 2k3 and office. We are also VERY VERY carefull who has access to the install media/keys, and where they get used (i.e. no non-test lab use). Our corp IT guy works hard to ensure that all software in use on the corp stuff is legit, and up to date.

Again, I'm not saying that MS has no right to try and curb casual privacy (I know they do) I am just hoping they help us enterprise level/MSDN subs, so that we don't end up with lost revenue due to the new time/requirements.

You should be discussing this with your TAM. He can either address your concerns or run your request for changes up to dev.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: nweaver

...

Again, I'm not saying that MS has no right to try and curb casual privacy (I know they do) ...

Was this a typo? I really hope it wasn't a typo

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: nweaver
tbh, hold a company fically responsible for their VLK's....

I usually check in/check out my VLK CD's (it's slipstreamed into the disk) and don't let folks access the key themselves.

Isn't the key just saved in plaintext on the CD then? If you found a way to automate the key without it being in plaintext in the win.sif file, I would love to know.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: nweaver
tbh, hold a company fically responsible for their VLK's....

I usually check in/check out my VLK CD's (it's slipstreamed into the disk) and don't let folks access the key themselves.

Isn't the key just saved in plaintext on the CD then? If you found a way to automate the key without it being in plaintext in the win.sif file, I would love to know.

328356 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Volume License Product Key Encryption
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;328356

 

[Xellos2099]

Well, I think the rate of piracy is so high for window is because you are only allow 1 license per pc at one time, right? If a household only like like 1 pc, 2-300 dollar every 5-6 years doesn;t seems to bad. However, when an household lgot like 3-4 computer? we got problam. 4 computer = 4 license = and that is at least $1,200, just for the operation system alone. I think the rate for piracy will be a lot less if like for example a license can be use for 3-4 machine per household.

Also, in a way, piracy is in way keepign price of the microsoft product down. Right now, Microsoft is not too concern about Lunix or mac for the matter, Pirate is in fact their biggest competitor. For exmaple, Vista Home basic upgrade is like $99, pretty affordable, right? In fact it is quite affordable that people can buy it without breaking their wallet. And some people who might pirate might buy the real version of the vista instead since it is so affordable. However, what if Piracy doesn't exist? Microsoft will be allow to list price of their operation system in whatever price they wish and no one can do anything about it since there is not really an alternative. Right now, the alternative IS the pirate version of the window, and microsoft need keep their price affordable in order to competition with the pirate, so the end user might end up buying legal instead of pirate version instead.

Let be realistic, all Microsft want is to earn as much money as possible, if there is no direct competitor, they cna list price at whatever they want and people would need to buy ti in order to keep up with the technology.

 

[Smilin]

Your post is so full of sh1t I'm not even sure where to begin.

When was the last time MS raised the price of an OS? Seriously the price has anti-inflated over the years despite the increased development costs and skyrocketing piracy. You can gripe about them being a monopoly but they aren't acting like it. Go on, tell me when was the last price raise? Think the DOJ would let it happen if they tried?

"in a way, piracy is in way keepign price of the microsoft product down" ???
What on earth are you talking about? Name ANY other product, tangible (cars, groceries) or intangible (software, music, services) where massive theft of the product makes the price go down. In some form or another that cost always gets passed to the consumer. You think if MS suddenly started selling MILLIONS of copies of Windows in China that your price would go up?

Your $1200 for a household of operating systems is ludicrous. How much did you pay for XP home that came on your dell? How much will Vista cost on the same next year? You pay next to nothing for your OS and there ARE programs to allow you to run a 2nd copy cheaply.

Don't give me some crap about the only alternative is to steal. You come in here spouting some holier-than-thou MS bashing and then say the solution is to be nothing more than a common thief.

You are only right about one thing: Microsoft wants to make money. What underwear-stealing-gnome business school did you attend where you think the purpose of a business is to lose money?

Also, just so you know, this isn't what a flame from me looks like.

 

[Xellos2099]

Price jump from Window 98 to Window xp is a pretty huge jump. And not Everyone buy a Dell. You are the one who is blind to the truth. Remember the time when telephone company are allow to charge whatever they want? Remember the history class when they talk about the big company pay peanut to worker simply because there is no other place to work? The only reason microsoft is not jumping the price on vista is because there is an alternative. Remember when ipod was expensive? That was because there was nothing like it on the market at that time. If the alternative is gone, and microsft can list whatever they want because it will become the standard and people either keep up or perish. The piracy issue was a lot less serious back in window 98 era simply because the price is quite afford to everyday people.

And you got no right to call me a thief, I got legal version of 98, xp and soon vista, so spare me of your rightous crap and think for a monent.

And technically, it is not legal to run more than a copy of window xp on a computer at one time, if you do, you are no better than the thief you describe.