Info Vitamin B6

[paperfist]

High levels of sodium n the diet will do cause BP as well as genetics. Does your faimly have a history of high BP?

I don’t intake salt other than what’s naturally present. Yes, it’s hereditary. You either get high blood pressure or high cholesterol. Still I would have thought 40# loss and quitting salt would budge it a little.

 

[paperfist]

I have high BP in the family. From what I read, you can probably lower it 3-5 points via diet/exercise. Considering I'm 20 points over, I think it's fruitless, but it's nice to have goals (lol). Hard to fight genetics. Kind of like trying to stop your hair from graying/falling out.

Had another burning feet experience last night. I do feel like it's related to hydration.

The 1 gallon comment is just based off the general equation of men should get a certain amount of fluid ounces/liters of water per day, something like 130 ounces - 1 gallon of water has 128 ounces. Certainly we can get water from other things (fruits, food, other drinks, etc), but my brother in law uses an app that tells him it's time to drink a glass of water (lol).

Similar to the timers for "time to stand" and "time to sit" for standing desks, I guess. In regards to that, I bought an autonomous desk a few months ago and I haven't sat down at work since then - always standing or leaning with the wobbly stool. My lower back feels stronger, my neighbor said it looks like I grew a foot - I think she meant because I've lost some weight too, but I think posture is helping too lol.

I read something that by the time you feel hungry or feel thirsty, it's too late (you shouldn't have those feelings) - lol.

Lol apps to drink water or stand/sit?

I heard kind of a neat trick, just use the same glass/jugs/whatever to hold your water and fill it everyday. That way you can always gauge how much you drank.

Are you eating a lot of blueberries or similar that’s causes B vitamin spikes?

Yeah that sucks. I wish I knew what triggers the burning sensation. It just seems to be random triggered by the nerves. Well there’s always sleeping naked with no bed sheets to eliminate it, but then you’ll be cold lol

In a demented way it’s pretty amazing that nerves can make you feel like you’re on fire when you’re not hot.

 

[007ELmO]

Lol apps to drink water or stand/sit?

I heard kind of a neat trick, just use the same glass/jugs/whatever to hold your water and fill it everyday. That way you can always gauge how much you drank.

Are you eating a lot of blueberries or similar that’s causes B vitamin spikes?

Yeah that sucks. I wish I knew what triggers the burning sensation. It just seems to be random triggered by the nerves. Well there’s always sleeping naked with no bed sheets to eliminate it, but then you’ll be cold lol

In a demented way it’s pretty amazing that nerves can make you feel like you’re on fire when you’re not hot.

Actually, I have nerve pain with nothing touching my feet, so there's no escaping it there. Something touching my feet doesn't aggravate it more or less, but when taking a shower it's worse, my feet are susceptible to hot water now (nerve damage I guess?).

My multivitamin had 1250% of B6 and i was taking that for at least 5 years. I also eat blue berries/spinach/kale.

The apps to stand/sit, if you haven't used a standing desk before, help you control how long it's OK to sit before you need to stand again, or vice versa. You can get blood clots in your legs from standing too long, amongst other things. When you're working, sometimes you have no idea how much time has passed.

The same goes with drinking water I guess, for those of us who don't drink enough per day, an app can help with - you ought to drink right now if you want to hit your target, lol.

The latest autonomous AI desk actually has an iPad like device built into the table that alerts you when you should stand or sit/lean.

If you've ever been on a segway, during the training session they might tell you a story of people falling asleep/hitting a tree on the segway because standing for so long (without moving) would cause weak blood circulation and cause people to pass out while riding it, lol.

I personally now stand 50% of the day and lean on a wobbly stool the other 50%, I no longer sit.

 

[007ELmO]

UPDATE:

It's been about 3 months since I stopped taking the multivitamin.

I still feel burning feet in the shower occasionally, and occasionally at 6-7PM at night. But I feel like it has really subsided in frequency and pain level (I used to have to use numbing cream to be able to sleep).

I still have 1 month to go before the doctor wants to check my B6 levels again, but I have to imagine it was due to the B6 overdose and my body is trying to recover. Whatever it happening now is manageable, I don't really think or feel anything when driving for long stretches anymore either (that was depressing, thinking I couldn't go on road trips in the future!).

Getting old sucks.

 

[whm1974]

Well I am glad to see that you are improving, and hopefully the condition is cured entirely by time you see your doctor.

 

[D C Campbell]

Hello 007ELmO - First off, great to hear that your recovery has begun. Best wishes to you and congratulations on your strength and dedication to regain your health. I have to say, I was stunned when your original posting here came up on a Google search I ran for B6 neuropathy related to the Rainbow Light Mens One Daily vitamin. This is the EXACT same vitamin that I took for about the same period of time (5-6 years) and am experiencing the same symptoms. I noticed that B6 toxicity was a potential cause of neuropathy, took a look at my supplements and drew the same conclusions as you - the 1250% RDA of the B6 content within the supplement.

I stopped taking the vitamin 2 weeks ago. I drew blood one week ago (7 days after) and my level was 65 in the B6 plasma, about 3 times the upper limit within the range. Im currently trying to communicate this with my local Neurologist who at first thought that B6 toxicity only affects motor nerves not the sensory nervous system. My situation is complicated as I also have pinched nerves in my lumbar spine from years of concrete running excessively that is creating low back pain and bilateral nerve pain in legs as well. But the majority of my pain is in the lower legs, knees, shins, calves and FEET.

If you would be so kind to offer any additional advice for tests to run, diet recommendations, nerve healing supplements you were given that would be appreciated. In a perfect world I'd love to chat with you if possible. Im in a lot of pain trying to resolve this mystery and get back to touring as a professional drummer. My number is (408) 316-6325.

Thank you in advance!

Best

Dino

 

[007ELmO]

Hi Dino,

I don't frequent Anandtech much anymore. I can tell you it's been maybe 6-7 months since I stopped taking that same multi vitamin, and I probably experience neuropathy once a week or less, and not for long. I think it might be triggered by diet, but it's essentially infrequent/weak enough that I basically don't notice it anymore.

It takes a long time (the doctor wanted me to wait 4 months) to check my B6 levels after stopping the multi vitamin, although it probably starts to go down pretty quickly after 1-2 weeks.

They did the EMG (EKG?) tests on my spine too and said I have a pinched nerve. THen another neurologist said no, that's not the cause of your neuropathy, and everyone has pinched nerves in their back as they age (although yours might be different).

I would check the B6 again in 4 months and stop that vitamin immediately (like you did). I did remember drinking a lot of water (more than usual) for a couple weeks, hoping that'd help somehow.

This situation completely changed my life for the healthier, because I didn't know what it was really so I tried to fix everything:

1. Green smoothie for breakfast, daily
   • 1/2 cup water
   • 1/2 cup milk
   • 1 cup Grapes
   • 1/2 banana
   • 2 cups of Spinach/Kale mix (usually called "Power greens" at the grocery store)
   • 1/2 cup Frozen fruit (pineapple, mango, smoothie mix, whatever you want)
   • Blend for 45 seconds or so (buy a Vitamix blender, refurbished if you have to)
2. Started jogging 2 miles every day, any speed, don't time yourself
   • Since then I've taken up running and own 7 pairs of running shoes (don't ask)
   • I also lift weights every other day now (you probably already do this)
3. Limit the stress/get enough sleep every day

I've lost ~43 lbs since I got off the multi vitamin and tried to fix my health. Something helped, and realistically it was probably just getting off the multi vitamin.

As mentioned, I still get some minor irritation in my toes (showers, sometimes during the day), and I think it's triggered from food (i.e. something that has significant B6, maybe). Check any protein shakes you drink, often they already have 100% B6, I try to avoid those if possible.

I check labels a lot more. I'm developing an application that might help you stick to a diet of limited B6, I can let you know when it's ready for public consumption, it might help you - we hope it helps others with dietary issues like this.

I did go months with the pain, it can be depressing and debilitating. In the mean time you can get some cream from the pharmacy that numbs the nerves, it does no harm (AFAIK) and will subside the pain for 12-24 hours at a time while you wait for your body to try and naturally recover).

I read one medical article that showed a woman in her late 70s or early 80s had this problem and was able to "reverse damage", so there's hope but you have to give it a lot of time.

There is nerve medication to stop the stinging pain that you can take, I decided to not take anything and just wait it out and push. I feel like within a month the pain started to subside. As I type this it makes me think about it and I can feel something slight in my toes (lol) but nothing like it was before. With any pain it's tough to tell if it's improving, until it's fully gone. There's no digital scale to tell us it's a 9/10 or 3/10.

Reuben

 

[CalebRockeT]

I've lost ~43 lbs since I got off the multi vitamin and tried to fix my health.

Nice work, dude.

 

[D C Campbell]

Hey Ruben,

Thanks for the reply and congratulations, man. I’m so happy to hear your symptoms have subsided so much, that’s fantastic. Thanks for all the detailed information you included. So I had an MRI done and definitely issues in my back, I did a lot of running over the years and they’re saying that the spinal stenosis narrowing of the canal as well as a herniated disc is causing the pain due to nerve entrapment. But, like you, I had a neurologist say, “if the majority of your pain is in your feet and legs, then I wouldn’t be able to rule out peripheral neuropathy as the source of your pain”. So as it stands, I have indeed stopped the multi, the doctor is aware of the blood level, and I just did a “skin punch biopsy” last week. Not fun, but not horrible Did it in the office, Lidocaine numbing on a spot top of foot and spot above knee on quad muscle. 2mm round hole is taken out and sent to lab to analyze and confirm/deny if the fibers indeed have “sensory fiber damage”. This is different from “motor nerve damage” as you know I’m sure. The motor nerves would be the sciatic chain going down my legs from back, but this would be the small millions of nerves affected potentially by the B6.

Your diet suggestions are great. Im with you on eating healthy, sleep, hydration, exercise, taking care of yourself as it’s necessary for healing. My challenge is the pain is so brutal that I absolutely cannot run and have quite a bit of weakness where I can lift weights. The back area is struggling when I lift even light weights because as you know, pretty much anything weight bearing needs the help of the back. What I can do is a lot of stretching and isometric holds like forearm planks, crunches, all types of core strengthening.

I had a few more questions if that's okay, Ruben:

- Where was the majority of your pain as it’s worst? Mine tends to be feet, calves, knees.
- Did you ever feet an overall kind of buzzing, sort of pain, that was in your feet lower legs and hands area, oftentimes when you first wake up or during a nap? Some call it the stocking/glove syndrome.
- Did your pain feel worse when you upright and/or walking around, and did it subside when you laid down to rest or sat down?


Thanks for your help, Ruben. This is much appreciated once again. By the way, I didn’t see an AFAIK cream online? Is this an abbreviation of sort or perhaps called something else as well?


Thank you!


Best,


Dino

 

[007ELmO]

Hey Ruben,

Thanks for the reply and congratulations, man. I’m so happy to hear your symptoms have subsided so much, that’s fantastic. Thanks for all the detailed information you included. So I had an MRI done and definitely issues in my back, I did a lot of running over the years and they’re saying that the spinal stenosis narrowing of the canal as well as a herniated disc is causing the pain due to nerve entrapment. But, like you, I had a neurologist say, “if the majority of your pain is in your feet and legs, then I wouldn’t be able to rule out peripheral neuropathy as the source of your pain”. So as it stands, I have indeed stopped the multi, the doctor is aware of the blood level, and I just did a “skin punch biopsy” last week. Not fun, but not horrible Did it in the office, Lidocaine numbing on a spot top of foot and spot above knee on quad muscle. 2mm round hole is taken out and sent to lab to analyze and confirm/deny if the fibers indeed have “sensory fiber damage”. This is different from “motor nerve damage” as you know I’m sure. The motor nerves would be the sciatic chain going down my legs from back, but this would be the small millions of nerves affected potentially by the B6.

Your diet suggestions are great. Im with you on eating healthy, sleep, hydration, exercise, taking care of yourself as it’s necessary for healing. My challenge is the pain is so brutal that I absolutely cannot run and have quite a bit of weakness where I can lift weights. The back area is struggling when I lift even light weights because as you know, pretty much anything weight bearing needs the help of the back. What I can do is a lot of stretching and isometric holds like forearm planks, crunches, all types of core strengthening.

I had a few more questions if that's okay, Ruben:

- Where was the majority of your pain as it’s worst? Mine tends to be feet, calves, knees.
- Did you ever feet an overall kind of buzzing, sort of pain, that was in your feet lower legs and hands area, oftentimes when you first wake up or during a nap? Some call it the stocking/glove syndrome.
- Did your pain feel worse when you upright and/or walking around, and did it subside when you laid down to rest or sat down?


Thanks for your help, Ruben. This is much appreciated once again. By the way, I didn’t see an AFAIK cream online? Is this an abbreviation of sort or perhaps called something else as well?


Thank you!


Best,


Dino

Hi,

Yes, Lidocaine is what I was starting to use nightly (4%).

My pain was only in my toes, but it started to go to underneath my feet.
Mine was almost always when I laid down (so I thought it was a circulation problem). If I was walking around, I felt it less.
I felt it more with constraining shoes, too.

AFAIK = as far as I know. So the only cream I used (OTC, over the counter) was the Lidocaine (4%). Seemed to work "well enough", but the buzzing was still there, just not as bad and let me sleep. I never felt any buzzing in anything other than my toes/feet. Burning/buzzing/stinging type ain, almost always when I laid down, and sometimes sitting/standing/walking. Often in the shower (with water contact).

There is some pill (called Gabapentin) you can take from the doctor that works well for nerve pain, if you're having trouble sleeping because of the pain I highly suggest trying. You've gotta sleep or you'll go crazy thinking about this stuff. I hope things improve for you, but know it can take years.

In regards to the B6 level itself, mine was the highest my doctor ever saw.

Acceptable range:
20.0 - 125.0 nmol/L

Mine was 395 (over 3x accepted level).
In 5 months, the reading lowered to 39.1.

That multivitamin is not helping, you're supposed to see damage after only 1 year. I've been taking it for longer like you, 4-5 years and only recently started to see this problem because B6 is not in the normal blood work. More than this vitamin can cause this stuff, energy drinks too. Anything with 1250% B6 should be pulled off the OTC market.

Did the doctor give you a B6/plasma test? It's a single blood test that tests just that. 65 is within range in my test, I wonder why you think it's 3x - in my range it's 3x the lower reading. You may have multiple things going on (your neuropathy does sound worse, but it's a shame we have to figure this stuff out ourselves. the podiatrist told me I should wear socks when I run, and that's it. she didn't mention B6 or anything, I figured this out alone like you did - the neurologist only confirmed it after I suggested it!).

Step 1 for him was to just see if stopping the multi vitamin was enough, he said if not, we would try other things. We didn't reach that point, I think he was going to say diet change and/or that Gabapentin, not sure.

One thing that reaffirmed in me is to trust your gut, not someone else's - if you feel something is wrong and is not the right advice, or you're not getting better - keep trying/looking. A doctor isn't going to care more about our own health than us.

Also, if you can't run, try the stationary bike. I bought a Peloton type rip off from amazon ($200-300) and it will get the cardio in. Exercise is an anti depressant any way, but being healthier isn't going to hurt. Just start with 15 minutes of biking 5 days a week at any speed/low resistance until you can handle more. I bike pretty slowly (9-10 mph) but for 30 minutes every other day, while watching Netflix.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FF4RBDF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Reuben

 

[D C Campbell]

Hi,

Yes, Lidocaine is what I was starting to use nightly (4%).

My pain was only in my toes, but it started to go to underneath my feet.
Mine was almost always when I laid down (so I thought it was a circulation problem). If I was walking around, I felt it less.
I felt it more with constraining shoes, too.

AFAIK = as far as I know. So the only cream I used (OTC, over the counter) was the Lidocaine (4%). Seemed to work "well enough", but the buzzing was still there, just not as bad and let me sleep. I never felt any buzzing in anything other than my toes/feet. Burning/buzzing/stinging type ain, almost always when I laid down, and sometimes sitting/standing/walking. Often in the shower (with water contact).

There is some pill (called Gabapentin) you can take from the doctor that works well for nerve pain, if you're having trouble sleeping because of the pain I highly suggest trying. You've gotta sleep or you'll go crazy thinking about this stuff. I hope things improve for you, but know it can take years.

In regards to the B6 level itself, mine was the highest my doctor ever saw.

Acceptable range:
20.0 - 125.0 nmol/L

Mine was 395 (over 3x accepted level).
In 5 months, the reading lowered to 39.1.

That multivitamin is not helping, you're supposed to see damage after only 1 year. I've been taking it for longer like you, 4-5 years and only recently started to see this problem because B6 is not in the normal blood work. More than this vitamin can cause this stuff, energy drinks too. Anything with 1250% B6 should be pulled off the OTC market.

Did the doctor give you a B6/plasma test? It's a single blood test that tests just that.

Reuben

Hi Reuben,

Great info thank you. My level was three times as well. I stopped taking the multi vitamin 5 days before test and the range on mine was 2-21 for B6 plasma. Mine was 65.

Oh Dear

 

[007ELmO]

My doctor wanted to wait 4+ months. I remember feeling better (but not 100%) within only 1-2 weeks. I was drinking water like a mad man too, to try and flush the B6 out. Since it's a B vitamin, supposed to be eliminated, but we can see it doesn't/didn't. Try to drink a lot more water than normal for a couple weeks (don't overdo it though, water poisoning is real).

Also go to fruits/veggies/tofu/water diet during that time and see if you can control the B6.

Nowadays I still eat pizza/junk food, I fele the neurpathy come back randomly sometimes and it's when I go away from my smooothie diet, it doesn't mean I can't have the tasty stuff, just not as often. Used to eat pizza 3x a week (not a joke), mcdonald on the other days. Now pizza once a week keeps me happy and no health issues really.

 

[D C Campbell]

My doctor wanted to wait 4+ months. I remember feeling better (but not 100%) within only 1-2 weeks. I was drinking water like a mad man too, to try and flush the B6 out. Since it's a B vitamin, supposed to be eliminated, but we can see it doesn't/didn't. Try to drink a lot more water than normal for a couple weeks (don't overdo it though, water poisoning is real).

Also go to fruits/veggies/tofu/water diet during that time and see if you can control the B6.

Nowadays I still eat pizza/junk food, I fele the neurpathy come back randomly sometimes and it's when I go away from my smooothie diet, it doesn't mean I can't have the tasty stuff, just not as often. Used to eat pizza 3x a week (not a joke), mcdonald on the other days. Now pizza once a week keeps me happy and no health issues really.

Ok awesome thanks. Yeah I find that eating healthy really helps your whole system feel better, and too much water is bad yes. Flushes our necessary electrolytes.

The foods you recommended are low in B6 or just generally healthy? Did you find a B6 food list by amount or something?

 

[007ELmO]

The foods I recommend do have B6 in them, but not exceeding a crazy amount past 100%. We do need B6.

Otherwise I look at most food labels and when eating out, I cut the meal and half and save the rest for dinner. This helps the calorie and B6 intake.

I'll tell you, I did have a neuropathy experience last night again! So it comes back, but it's infrequent. I only say this because I'm either still fighting it off to heal or it's something I'll have to live with.

The vitamin wasn't helping, so getting off that is the start.

The app we're working on will help you quickly identify if some food has B6 in it, you will be able to use it from your phone. It might be a while but people like you (and me, lol) are an inspiration for developing it, because people out there need it and could use it.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Hey, if anyone tries inositol to eradicate nerve pain, report back.

( I'm taking some right now. It works.)

 

[D C Campbell]

Hey FeuerFrie - thanks for the tip. I'll try some - any particular brand and quantity/per day, etc? any side effects?

Thanks...

 

[D C Campbell]

Hey Reuben - this is awesome, the app, I think this will defintley come in use for people, both those that need more and those that need less. It's common for women to need more during pregnancy so this could come in use for sure. I think there's definitely a rising trend of people smartening up to supplements in general and realizing that a majority (not all) of their required vitamins/minerals can be achieved in a much more healthy way through real foods. Also, such a big difference between whole food based vitamins and synthetic versions. I learned that there's several whole food based supplements on the market and others like rainbow light that are synthetic. The synthetic version of B6 is what can damage the body at high doses. I was also drinking Vitamin Zeros by the case to keep my electrolytes up as my doctor said my general electrolytes were low - magnesium, sodium, potassium, etc. I enjoyed the taste and zero calorie so figured what's the harm. I was wrong. These contain 100% RDA of B6 synthetic garbage version in every bottle.

As far as your recent episode of neuropathy the other night - what are your thoughts on the general level of blood sugar that should be normalized. I personally feel like for folks like us, we kind of have more of a sensitive nervous system now (if you will) and therefore need to be cognizant about really anything that can heighten alerts in our system, low b12, too much mercury, lead, etc. and since diabetic neuropathy is the most common cause , I have to think that high levels of sugar or high glycemic foods might be a culprit for pain. Thats just my theory but I have definitely noticed a correlation. I feel the pain come on earlier in the day when I have alot of carbs the night before. Really, I should try cutting them out to bare minimum, but as we all know, carbs and sugar feel great initially.

Here's a couple cool links I found with B6 amounts:

http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts/html/data/data4d.html

https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000111000000000000000.html

Basically, it almost seems like fortified breakfast cereals are the worst. and they're high glycemic. the b6 they use for fortification is garbage.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Hey FeuerFrie - thanks for the tip. I'll try some - any particular brand and quantity/per day, etc? any side effects?

Thanks...

I haven't settled on a favorite brand. 730 mg per day is recommended on the label of the NOW brand inositol powder I'm using right now. It's a sugar alcohol and is supposed to lower blood glucose levels by reducing insulin resistance. No reported side effects.

Also helps the brain produce neurotransmitters in general; e.g. serotonin. When paired with choline it noticeably increases acetylcholine in the brain - a neurotransmitter involved in memory and recall.

 

[D C Campbell]

I haven't settled on a favorite brand. 730 mg per day is recommended on the label of the NOW brand inositol powder I'm using right now. It's a sugar alcohol and is supposed to lower blood glucose levels by reducing insulin resistance. No reported side effects.

Also helps the brain produce neurotransmitters in general; e.g. serotonin. When paired with choline it noticeably increases acetylcholine in the brain - a neurotransmitter involved in memory and recall.

Ok, good to know. Thanks for the info , I’ll check it out...

 

[allisolm]

I'm sure Google would be a great source for that information.