Voodoo5 5500 update review suggestions

[BFG10K]

please, PLEASE, PLEASE use Glide whenever applicable.

Absolutely no Glide.

I don't know of a single 3dfx user who plays UT in D3D.

That would be me. I need the gamma correction offered by Direct 3D, otherwise the game is too dark. Also if I had a V4/V5 I would play the game in 32 bit colour, which is something Glide can't do.

 

[DaveB3D]

How about Glide AND D3D scores. That way everyone is happy...

 

[Wingznut]

You'll have to trust me... but UT looks no different in 32bit, than in Glide. And you can adjust the gamma on the V5 for Glide.

 

[LXi]

Glide scores are more fair because its actually what you're getting for your money.

 

[RoboTECH]

yeah, WTF. This is a voodoo5 review, not a cross-card comparison

I think it would be quite interesting to compare glide scores to D3d scores

We're not comparing D3d across several cards, we would be comapring glide to D3ed in UT on one card.

definitely a good idea

 

[LXi]

Even if it was cross card I still think including the Glide scores are more fair because it's actually what you'll be getting if you buy V4/5.

 

[BFG10K]

And you can adjust the gamma on the V5 for Glide.

You can adjust it with a V3 as well. The problem is it doesn't work. The game ignores your setting and stays dark. (Well I haven't tried UT, but Unreal and Return To Na Pali stay dark).

Has everyone seen Anandtech's explanation why they don't use Glide for benchmarks? They explain it very well.

 

[LXi]

Well, if you havent tried UT, maybe you should.

<<Has everyone seen Anandtech's explanation why they don't use Glide for benchmarks? They explain it very well.>>

That's for cross card benchmarking only, because it's not fair for 3dfx gain extra fps when other video cards dont support Glide. However it's just a V5 investigation and it makes absolutely no sense not to include Glide scores because a majority of people do use Glide, on the other hand it's also more informative. It think Anandtech should always include Glide scores because that is what you're getting if you buy V4/5.

 

[IBMer]

I don't know about you, but Glide is actually slower for me than D3D. I can run D3D in 32-bit color about as fast as I can in Glide. The 16-bit in D3D is much faster than glide.

 

[BFG10K]

Well, if you havent tried UT, maybe you should.

It uses the same engine as the other two.

However it's just a V5 investigation and it makes absolutely no sense not to include Glide scores because a majority of people do use Glide

I am only interested in FPS comparison if both APIs are doing the exact same thing. Glide isn't doing what Direct 3D does, so I'm not interested.

I don't know about you, but Glide is actually slower for me than D3D.

I think in any system, high resolution Direct 3D benchmarks will be faster than Glide benchmarks. But for low resolutions, Glide is faster than Direct 3D in my system.

 

[LXi]

<<It uses the same engine as the other two.>>

I dont know but I can adjust gamma, they're never dark in the first place.


<<I am only interested in FPS comparison if both APIs are doing the exact same thing. Glide isn't doing what Direct 3D does, so I'm not interested.>>

What kinda of a screwed up reason is that? You're not interested because they're not the same!? Hell none of the APIs can be exactly the same as the other. And who are you to tell Anandtech no to include Glide just because you are not interested?

Furthermore, how do we know what kind of real fps are we getting if you dont give the measures of Glide performance? Think about it, Glide is a selling point of the Voodoo series, Im picking up a V5 because most of games I play are Glide enhanced. Makes absolutely no sense not to include Glide scores when a majority of the people use Glide in UT. Two words: screw D3D, if you still dont get my point.

 

[Zucchini]

don't bother with glide.. its not as useful to benchmark for old/current games. Its nice to know how the card plays games current/future. No more glide games coming out that i know of

 

[RoboTECH]

look, guys, this is a 5500 ONLY review.

It would be RIDICULOUS not to include a comparison of &quot;glide vs. D3d&quot; in a game like UT that supports it, ESPECIALLY since so many people are saying &quot;D3d is faster - NO!!! glide is faster - NO D3d is faster in high-res, glide faster in low res&quot;, etc.

It is BEGGING for a comparison.

the thing is, if anand DOES a UT glide vs. D3d comparison, you have to make sure that D3d is using the same settings as glide.

D3d uses lower quality settings (adjustable ONLY in the console) than glide does by default. you have to bring down the advanced preferences console and make adjustments there in order to get the same visual quality.

D3d uses much lower detail textures by default, that's why people THINK they get lower scores in glide than D3d.

It's comparable to setting r_picmip 0 in Quake3 (for glide) vs. r_picmip &quot;1.5&quot; (for D3d)

there is a noticeable visual quality difference and a noticeable speed difference as well.

 

[*kjm]

I would like to see a bench for Tribes. That game is played by a lot of V5 owners.

 

[RoboTECH]

how about older games, like Counterstrike (with WickedGL) and Tribes with FSAA enabled?

 

[Ahriman6]

Question: what's the point of even testing with a game if you're not going to test with conditions that imitate how gamers actually play that game?

I simply do not/cannot understand this bifurcated logic.

To not test with Glide is absolutely the same as not testing with hardware T&amp;L enabled on a GF card. Why? Because those who argue that Glide and D3D aren't doing the same things somehow always, always, always fail to note that D3D's T&amp;L code isn't the same as an in-game engine's software T&amp;L code.

 

[Wingznut]

UT's D3D also disables volumetric lighting, which is a significant performance boost.

 

[RoboTECH]

yet another good point

OGL does the same thing (weaker textures and disabled volumetric lighting) I'm prety sure

 

[BFG10K]

LXI:

I dont know but I can adjust gamma, they're never dark in the first place.

What about in the original Unreal? If UT does honour the control panel settings then it probably is worth playing it in Glide.

Hell none of the APIs can be exactly the same as the other.

But OpenGL and Direct 3D have similar features and work on a wide range of boards. Glide only works on Voodoos and has nowhere near the amount of features.

And who are you to tell Anandtech no to include Glide just because you are not interested?

Whoah there! We're talking about a hypothetical review and what we'd like to see in it. Somehow I don't think Anandtech is even going to bother reading this thread.

Think about it, Glide is a selling point of the Voodoo series,

No it isn't.

Im picking up a V5 because most of games I play are Glide enhanced.

Well you'd be one of the 3 people who are.

 

[Ahriman6]

&quot;Im picking up a V5 because most of games I play are Glide enhanced.

Well you'd be one of the 3 people who are.&quot;

Just depends on what you play. I've currently got Rune, Ultima 9, and Deus Ex installed, and I'd love to see a GTS try and keep up in the latter two.

Tit for tat, but even as late as this summer Glide was a nice little bonus. Major selling point?. . .not really. Nice to have? Yep.

 

[Remedy]

<< That's for cross card benchmarking only, because it's not fair for 3dfx gain extra fps when other video cards dont support Glide >>



What about how the Geforce and Radeon have on board T&amp;L which the V5 doesn't have and it still can get compared in q3 across the board against a v5 that doesn't have it, and i take it that your assuming that is an ok thing? Each brand card has one feature that the other one doesn't have so if you take away the Geforce tnL and take away the Radeon tile based compression features, wouldn't that be fair benchmarking then?

 

[Wingznut]

As I've always said, run the card to the best of it's abilities. And don't give a rat's @ss if it's not &quot;fair&quot; since the other card doesn't support it.

Run the V4 and V5 in Glide, in D3D, in OpenGL, with Wicked3D drivers, with the advanced option settings that Dave, Robo, and I have been clammering on about... With anything and everything.

Don't disqualify something that makes the V4/5 run better, simply because nVidia doesn't use it.

 

[Remedy]

Wingnut that is part i don't understand why cripple the card by not running it to its fullest extent? The v5 is now gaining so much ground with its latest driver realese,Yet Matt and Vlad don't seem to run it threw its paces like they do with the Geforce, why? If it has TnL they use a game that supports TnL but when a game has GLide as an option they don't use it. If the card has it then use it.

 

[RoboTECH]

BFG, you gotta get real here

you're one of the ONLY voodoo card users that doesn't run games in glide when it's supported

if you're going to do a voodoo card review, then you have to use glide. It would be good to compare glide to d3d

and there are more than 3 people playing Unreal Tournament who own 5500 cards bro.

Wake up!

 

[LXi]

<<What about in the original Unreal? If UT does honour the control panel settings then it probably is worth playing it in Glide.>>

I played original Unreal with a Voodoo Banshee, was never dark in the first place, since UT is out I never touched Unreal anymore.


<<But OpenGL and Direct 3D have similar features and work on a wide range of boards. Glide only works on Voodoos and has nowhere near the amount of features.>>

It has nothing to do with what D3D an OGL has to offer.


<<Whoah there! We're talking about a hypothetical review and what we'd like to see in it. Somehow I don't think Anandtech is even going to bother reading this thread.>>

Tell me, Im I not going to get Glide when I purchase V5? Is that what you're saying? All I get is D3D/OGL and not Glide? Get real, whoever buys V5 will get Glide capabilities, why shouldn't it be part of the review? Are you suggesting that all products reviewed in Anandtech should not include anything unique or special? All they can review is the industry standards and not the features you're actually getting when you buy V5? Your reasonings arent justified.


<<No it isn't.>>

Hm... to anyone who plays Glide based games with V5, it's a selling point. I guess we largely outnumber the you alone.


<<Well you'd be one of the 3 people who are.>>

There are more than 3 people, I tell ya. Glide is one of the reasons why V5 is an attractive offer to me, Im sure the other 2 will agree. And we all like to see what kinda Glide scores we're going to get, why do you have a problem with that?