Voter intimidation in 2004 election - both parties guilty

Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Despite all the handwringing and accusations that went on before and after the presidential election concerning voter fraud, coersion, suppression and disinfranchisment, a new report out shows both groups were responsbile. According to the report, the Democrats even had a bit of an edge in intimidating and suppressing voters, as well as fraudulent voting behavior.

While Democrats routinely accuse Republicans of voter intimidation and suppression, neither party has a clean record on the issue. Instead, the evidence shows that Democrats waged aggressive intimidation and suppression campaigns against Republican voters and volunteers in 2004. Republicans have not been exempt from similar criticism in this area, as alleged voter intimidation and suppression activity by GOP operatives led the Republican National Committee to sign a consent decree repudiating such tactics in 1982. However, a careful review of the facts shows that in 2004, paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression efforts than their Republican counterparts. Examples include:

  • Paid Democrat operatives charged with slashing tires of 25 Republican get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee on the morning of Election Day.

    Misleading telephone calls made by Democrat operatives targeting Republican voters in Ohio with the wrong date for the election and faulty polling place information.

    Intimidating and deceiving mailings and telephone calls paid for by the DNC threatening Republican volunteers in Florida with legal action.

    Union-coordinated intimidation and violence campaign targeting Republican campaign offices and volunteers resulting in a broken arm for a GOP volunteer in Florida.

http://www.ac4vr.com/reports/072005/default.html

Note: When this report came out, the left blogosphere immediately started to do their best to discredit it by claiming one of the signatories of the report is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican who worked on the Bush/Cheney campaign. It turns out that the other signatory of the report is a former DNC board member and is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, so this is a bi-partisan report. So let's avoid the shoot the messenger to discredit the message form of attack.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
So, the sky really is blue. About time. But don't expect any more than a handful of people to figure out that neither party isn't screwing them, even so.
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb
So, the sky really is blue. About time. But don't expect any more than a handful of people to figure out that neither party isn't screwing them, even so.

im sort of hoping that neither party is really condoning the behavior.
i actually know some young fellers that went ahead with their own sort of intimidation as above...it would be nice (yet still disturbing) if it was more along those lines rather than higher-ups making the decisions and sending out orders.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Perhaps I'm missing the bombshell here, but nothing looks especially interesting about this. Certainly partisan idiots did some bad things (on both sides), but nothing suggests to me that anything was official or sanctioned. That is the only thing I'd really care about, idiots doing stupid stuff is bad and all, but we're always going to have that.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Perhaps I'm missing the bombshell here, but nothing looks especially interesting about this. Certainly partisan idiots did some bad things (on both sides), but nothing suggests to me that anything was official or sanctioned. That is the only thing I'd really care about, idiots doing stupid stuff is bad and all, but we're always going to have that.


Totally agree. There are bound to be lunatics within both parties.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,700
6,197
126
Tampering with the election process should result in a loss of citizenship and expulsion from the country.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Tampering with the election process should result in a loss of citizenship and expulsion from the country.

then canada would really hate us.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Tampering with the election process should result in a loss of citizenship and expulsion from the country.

Ah yes, no potential for abuse there :roll:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,700
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Tampering with the election process should result in a loss of citizenship and expulsion from the country.

Ah yes, no potential for abuse there :roll:

Stop that. You don't understand my posts anyway.

 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...

Proof they "disenfranchised" black voters? Give me a break with that crap...
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...

Proof they "disenfranchised" black voters? Give me a break with that crap...

A) Charges Of Long Lines Orchestrated By Republicans To Suppress The Minority Vote

On June 2, 2005, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that Republicans caused long lines at polling places on Election Day to suppress the minority vote. Dean stated:
?The Republicans are all about suppressing votes: two voting machines if you live in a black district, 10 voting machines if you live in a white district. ? You know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida there?s something the matter with that. ? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them never made an honest living in their lives.? (7)

Dean was just the latest Democrat leader to make this charge. In January 2005, the Rev. Jesse Jackson charged that ?blatant discrimination in the distribution of voting machines ensured long lines in inner-city and working-class precincts that favored John Kerry, while the exurban districts that favored President Bush had no similar problems.? (8) The Democrat staff of the House Judiciary Committee, led by Ranking Member Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), alleged in a January 2005 report that ?the misallocation of voting machines [in Ohio] led to unprecedented lines that disenfranchised scores, if not hundreds of thousands, of predominantly minority and Democratic voters.? The Conyers report specifically cited Franklin County, Ohio, as an area in which Republicans intentionally misallocated voting machines in order to cause long lines and disenfranchise minority voters. (9)

However, Democrat election officials in Franklin County and the U.S. Department of Justice have refuted this allegation. During the recent U.S. House Administration Committee hearing held in Columbus, William Anthony, Chairman of the Franklin County Democratic Party and County Board of Elections, flatly rejected the allegation that long lines were part of some effort to disenfranchise minorities and/or Democrat voters. Anthony further testified that long lines were not limited to minority and Democrat communities. Anthony stated under oath:

?Some have alleged that precincts in predominantly African American or Democratic precincts were deliberately targeted for a reduction in voting machines, thus creating the only lines in the county. I can assure you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, both as a leader in the black community and Chairman of the local Democratic Party and a labor leader and Chairman of the Board of Elections, that these accusations are simply not true.? (10)

Anthony stated that ?on Election Day I spent several hours driving around the county in the rain and observed long lines in every part of our county, in urban and suburban neighborhoods, black and white communities, Democrat and Republican precincts.? He referred to those who made claims about long lines and disenfranchisement as ?conspiracy theorists? and ?Internet bloggers.? (11)

Anthony noted that the entire process for allocating voting machines in the county was controlled by a Democratic supervisor. (12) He cited three reasons for the long lines in Franklin County on Election Day 2004: increased voter turnout, static resources and an exceptionally long ballot. (13) Finally, Anthony was ?personally offended? by these allegations. As he told The Columbus Dispatch, ?I am a black man. Why would I sit there and disenfranchise voters in my own community? ? I feel like they?re accusing me of suppressing the black vote. I?ve fought my whole life for people?s right to vote.? (14)

In July 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice reported that its investigation of Franklin County found that the county ?assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner.? As to charges of racial disparities in voting machine allocation, the Justice Department found that ?the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters.? The Department reported that white precincts averaged 172 voters per machine, while black precincts averaged 159 voters per machine. Noting that elections in Franklin County ? and everywhere in Ohio ? are run by a six-member Board of Elections equally divided between Republicans and Democrats, the Department concluded that ?long lines were attributable not to the allocation of machines, but to the lack of sufficient machines to serve a dramatically enlarged electorate under any allocation.? (15) (Exhibit B)
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...

Proof they "disenfranchised" black voters? Give me a break with that crap...

A) Charges Of Long Lines Orchestrated By Republicans To Suppress The Minority Vote

On June 2, 2005, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that Republicans caused long lines at polling places on Election Day to suppress the minority vote. Dean stated:
?The Republicans are all about suppressing votes: two voting machines if you live in a black district, 10 voting machines if you live in a white district. ? You know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida there?s something the matter with that. ? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them never made an honest living in their lives.? (7)

Dean was just the latest Democrat leader to make this charge. In January 2005, the Rev. Jesse Jackson charged that ?blatant discrimination in the distribution of voting machines ensured long lines in inner-city and working-class precincts that favored John Kerry, while the exurban districts that favored President Bush had no similar problems.? (8) The Democrat staff of the House Judiciary Committee, led by Ranking Member Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), alleged in a January 2005 report that ?the misallocation of voting machines [in Ohio] led to unprecedented lines that disenfranchised scores, if not hundreds of thousands, of predominantly minority and Democratic voters.? The Conyers report specifically cited Franklin County, Ohio, as an area in which Republicans intentionally misallocated voting machines in order to cause long lines and disenfranchise minority voters. (9)

However, Democrat election officials in Franklin County and the U.S. Department of Justice have refuted this allegation. During the recent U.S. House Administration Committee hearing held in Columbus, William Anthony, Chairman of the Franklin County Democratic Party and County Board of Elections, flatly rejected the allegation that long lines were part of some effort to disenfranchise minorities and/or Democrat voters. Anthony further testified that long lines were not limited to minority and Democrat communities. Anthony stated under oath:

?Some have alleged that precincts in predominantly African American or Democratic precincts were deliberately targeted for a reduction in voting machines, thus creating the only lines in the county. I can assure you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, both as a leader in the black community and Chairman of the local Democratic Party and a labor leader and Chairman of the Board of Elections, that these accusations are simply not true.? (10)

Anthony stated that ?on Election Day I spent several hours driving around the county in the rain and observed long lines in every part of our county, in urban and suburban neighborhoods, black and white communities, Democrat and Republican precincts.? He referred to those who made claims about long lines and disenfranchisement as ?conspiracy theorists? and ?Internet bloggers.? (11)

Anthony noted that the entire process for allocating voting machines in the county was controlled by a Democratic supervisor. (12) He cited three reasons for the long lines in Franklin County on Election Day 2004: increased voter turnout, static resources and an exceptionally long ballot. (13) Finally, Anthony was ?personally offended? by these allegations. As he told The Columbus Dispatch, ?I am a black man. Why would I sit there and disenfranchise voters in my own community? ? I feel like they?re accusing me of suppressing the black vote. I?ve fought my whole life for people?s right to vote.? (14)

In July 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice reported that its investigation of Franklin County found that the county ?assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner.? As to charges of racial disparities in voting machine allocation, the Justice Department found that ?the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters.? The Department reported that white precincts averaged 172 voters per machine, while black precincts averaged 159 voters per machine. Noting that elections in Franklin County ? and everywhere in Ohio ? are run by a six-member Board of Elections equally divided between Republicans and Democrats, the Department concluded that ?long lines were attributable not to the allocation of machines, but to the lack of sufficient machines to serve a dramatically enlarged electorate under any allocation.? (15) (Exhibit B)

Don't worry, I'm sure ntzd will file your post away into his "leftist crap" folder. They ask for proof, but truthfully don't want it.

We don't need proof that WMDs existed, right ntzd?
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...

Proof they "disenfranchised" black voters? Give me a break with that crap...

A) Charges Of Long Lines Orchestrated By Republicans To Suppress The Minority Vote

On June 2, 2005, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that Republicans caused long lines at polling places on Election Day to suppress the minority vote. Dean stated:
?The Republicans are all about suppressing votes: two voting machines if you live in a black district, 10 voting machines if you live in a white district. ? You know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida there?s something the matter with that. ? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them never made an honest living in their lives.? (7)

Dean was just the latest Democrat leader to make this charge. In January 2005, the Rev. Jesse Jackson charged that ?blatant discrimination in the distribution of voting machines ensured long lines in inner-city and working-class precincts that favored John Kerry, while the exurban districts that favored President Bush had no similar problems.? (8) The Democrat staff of the House Judiciary Committee, led by Ranking Member Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), alleged in a January 2005 report that ?the misallocation of voting machines [in Ohio] led to unprecedented lines that disenfranchised scores, if not hundreds of thousands, of predominantly minority and Democratic voters.? The Conyers report specifically cited Franklin County, Ohio, as an area in which Republicans intentionally misallocated voting machines in order to cause long lines and disenfranchise minority voters. (9)

However, Democrat election officials in Franklin County and the U.S. Department of Justice have refuted this allegation. During the recent U.S. House Administration Committee hearing held in Columbus, William Anthony, Chairman of the Franklin County Democratic Party and County Board of Elections, flatly rejected the allegation that long lines were part of some effort to disenfranchise minorities and/or Democrat voters. Anthony further testified that long lines were not limited to minority and Democrat communities. Anthony stated under oath:

?Some have alleged that precincts in predominantly African American or Democratic precincts were deliberately targeted for a reduction in voting machines, thus creating the only lines in the county. I can assure you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, both as a leader in the black community and Chairman of the local Democratic Party and a labor leader and Chairman of the Board of Elections, that these accusations are simply not true.? (10)

Anthony stated that ?on Election Day I spent several hours driving around the county in the rain and observed long lines in every part of our county, in urban and suburban neighborhoods, black and white communities, Democrat and Republican precincts.? He referred to those who made claims about long lines and disenfranchisement as ?conspiracy theorists? and ?Internet bloggers.? (11)

Anthony noted that the entire process for allocating voting machines in the county was controlled by a Democratic supervisor. (12) He cited three reasons for the long lines in Franklin County on Election Day 2004: increased voter turnout, static resources and an exceptionally long ballot. (13) Finally, Anthony was ?personally offended? by these allegations. As he told The Columbus Dispatch, ?I am a black man. Why would I sit there and disenfranchise voters in my own community? ? I feel like they?re accusing me of suppressing the black vote. I?ve fought my whole life for people?s right to vote.? (14)

In July 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice reported that its investigation of Franklin County found that the county ?assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner.? As to charges of racial disparities in voting machine allocation, the Justice Department found that ?the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters.? The Department reported that white precincts averaged 172 voters per machine, while black precincts averaged 159 voters per machine. Noting that elections in Franklin County ? and everywhere in Ohio ? are run by a six-member Board of Elections equally divided between Republicans and Democrats, the Department concluded that ?long lines were attributable not to the allocation of machines, but to the lack of sufficient machines to serve a dramatically enlarged electorate under any allocation.? (15) (Exhibit B)

Don't worry, I'm sure ntzd will file your post away into his "leftist crap" folder. They ask for proof, but truthfully don't want it.

We don't need proof that WMDs existed, right ntzd?

First of all, you might wanna get checked for dyslexia, my username is ntdz, not ntzd.

Second of all, posting stuff Howard Dean claims happened isn't proof.

Third of all, look at this quote you posted...

?The Republicans are all about suppressing votes: two voting machines if you live in a black district, 10 voting machines if you live in a white district. ? You know, the idea that you have to wait on line for eight hours to cast your ballot in Florida there?s something the matter with that. ? Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them never made an honest living in their lives.? (7)

I don't really care about what that idiot says, especially considering that ludacrous quote.
 

assemblage

Senior member
May 21, 2003
508
0
0
The guy in line in front of me cut the cheese and about drove me out. That's how I knew he was a Democrat and was trying to keep me from voting.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...

Yeah but but they stole SIGNS from FRONT LAWNS TOO DAMNIT!
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Democrats: Charged with slashing tires of Republican "Get Out The Vote" Vans.

Republicans: Disenfranchising blacks and other minorities who have the legal right to vote. And everyone knows the story about Diebold.

Let's see which one is worse...hmmm...
The Dems do it retail, the Repubs do it wholesale. Both are wrong. The Repubs are far more effective.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
i thought the voter turnout was an all time high.

i thought the turnout of black voters was an all time high

hard to understand how anyone can claim "suppression" of any vote, when more people voted than ever before.

could it just be that the "long waits" at the voting booth were because the turnout was so high? gosh, that would make just to much sense.....

i waited several hours to vote....cause the line was a mile long.....

oh well, conspiracy theories are more fun....pass the tin-foil....

The Dems do it retail, the Repubs do it wholesale. Both are wrong. The Repubs are far more effective.

actually, i believe the Dems prefer violence and weapons (i suppose these acts would be protected as "free speech")...didn't they also shoot up a bunch of campaign headquarters with weapons, as well as slashing tires....
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Don't worry, I'm sure ntzd will file your post away into his "leftist crap" folder. They ask for proof, but truthfully don't want it.

We don't need proof that WMDs existed, right ntzd?

Can you demonstrate where the "proof" is? Dean's claim that black voters were disenfranchized was debunked right within Tab's "proof":

In July 2005, the U.S. Department of Justice reported that its investigation of Franklin County found that the county ?assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner.? As to charges of racial disparities in voting machine allocation, the Justice Department found that ?the allocation of voting machines actually favored black voters because more white voters were voting on each voting machine than black voters.? The Department reported that white precincts averaged 172 voters per machine, while black precincts averaged 159 voters per machine. Noting that elections in Franklin County ? and everywhere in Ohio ? are run by a six-member Board of Elections equally divided between Republicans and Democrats, the Department concluded that ?long lines were attributable not to the allocation of machines, but to the lack of sufficient machines to serve a dramatically enlarged electorate under any allocation.? (15) (Exhibit B)
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Second of all, posting stuff Howard Dean claims happened isn't proof.

Al Gore claimed it too; that pretty much seals the case!
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: ntdz
Second of all, posting stuff Howard Dean claims happened isn't proof.

Al Gore claimed it too; that pretty much seals the case!

If you can't trust the man who invented the internet, who can you trust?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Blind support of the Chimp In Charge will often lead people to dismiss voter fraud.

Blacks were disenfranchised by the thousands in 2000, and intimidated in 2004. Florida counties with registered Democrats in the high 70% had Bush winning the county by thousands of votes. The California Sec. of State, when asked why the state has rejected the use of Diebold machines, stated they had a failure rate of 10%.

Diebold machines leave no record of the votes that are placed. Now why would a company with a Republican CEO not want any paper trail for the votes tabulated using their machines? We've had a paper trail for the votes for over 200 years in this country without a problem, so why throw accountability out the window now?
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,218
2,333
136
Did Cheney say something like if you vote for Kerry the terrorists will strike again?

Combine that with the lack of evidence stupid color alerts I would have to say the Right did a bit more.
 
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