Voters set to affirm hatred of gays

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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: piasabird
Marriage as it stands in most states is a union between a man and a woman. It has been that way for over 2,000 years. What makes you think you can change that without opposition?
Try 200 years--at most.
It was the right approach at the dawn of civilization and it is the right approach now.
The United States government was not aorund at the dawn of civilization.
This has to do with what is right as much as what a person believes, whether they believe in their religion or whether they are agnostic. Everyone has their own beliefs. If I choose to believe that marriage is a union between a man and a woman I have that right. My beliefs are protected under the constitution of the United States.
Yet if you happen to be a i love you, you do not have the right to your own beliefs.
Just because someone claims to be Gay or Lesbian it does not give them a special right to disrepect my beliefs.
How is it disrespecting your beliefs to pay a small fee and sign a license? By that right, most governments are already disrespecting the right of those who's religions allow for polygamy/palygany(sp). Either give everyone the right, or no one the right.
Lets put it to a National Vote and be done with it. You feel free to propose some ammendment making gay marriage protected under the law and we will vote on it.
How about getting rid of it? Beyond singing a note that says in case of death, Person B gets Person A's property, I don't see why the government should have one little bit of say in the matter.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: cquark
Originally posted by: spidey07
Here in KY we've put a nice wording around it..

"protect marriage between one man and one women"

Brilliant! I agree with that and will vote for it.

Looks like they made a mistake with the "one" if they want truly Bible-based marriage, which was polygynous.

Well its what we're voting on. An right now there is about 78% support.

Thank goodness we live in a society where majority rules and we get to vote.


Except you don't. You live in a society protected by a Constitution and a Bill of rights, the purpose of which is to protect individuals from the tyranny of the majority.

No fvcking kidding. Some of you people need to go back to high school, or junior high, or wherever it was you should have been learning these things.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
ummm, I still believe we live in a democracy where majority rules.

Again, thank goodness we're voting on it and it will not be allowed in my state.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Pandaren
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOL...10/31/gay.marriage.ap/

The proposed amendments in Mississippi, Montana and Oregon refer only to marriage. Those in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma and Utah would ban civil unions as well, and those extra provisions have generated extra controversy.

Recent polls showed support for the amendments at 76 percent in Oklahoma and Kentucky, 65 percent in Arkansas, 60 percent or more in Michigan, 59 percent in Montana and 57 percent in Ohio.

The message is clear: the majority of people in those states hate gays. They see them as freaks to be relegated to second-class citizens. Congratulations on perpetuating bigotry in our great nation! /sarcasm. :|
Kinda like your post huh?

 

Pandaren

Golden Member
Sep 13, 2003
1,029
0
0
There are certain things where the majority doesn't rule. Freedom of Speech for example. I would say that most people in America don't like what Neo-Nazis and Hitler worshipers have to say. That majority can't shut the minority up because of the First Amendment.

The Founders realized that minorities need to be protected, or we all will suffer eventually from discrimination.

Originally posted by: spidey07
ummm, I still believe we live in a democracy where majority rules.

Again, thank goodness we're voting on it and it will not be allowed in my state.

 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People don't really understand their democratic duty, for the most part, and the government seems to have forgotten the whole "protect the minorites" part of the "will of the majority". Fvcking pathetic.

The role of the government in this country is not to protect the rights of the minority. Where do people keep getting this idea? It's to protect the rights of everybody.

It comes from the concept of the Bill of Rights. Each person has certain rights that can't be taken away even through a a majority vote. For example, you have the right to voice your opinion as stated in the Bill of Rights even if 51% of the country thinks you don't.
There is a New Bill Of Rights written by the FLL Club.

The name of the new Bill of Rights is completely wrong along with the rest of the new Documents they have drawn up like the Patriotic Act should be called the Un-Patriotic Act.

It old Bill of Rights was re-written and is technically the NO Bill Of Rights unless you are firmly in the Religious Radical Right Wing and happy about discriminating against others such as Gays.
Got a link? This is news to me, and google isn't helpful.


The Link goes to his Arse.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People don't really understand their democratic duty, for the most part, and the government seems to have forgotten the whole "protect the minorites" part of the "will of the majority". Fvcking pathetic.

The role of the government in this country is not to protect the rights of the minority. Where do people keep getting this idea? It's to protect the rights of everybody.

It comes from the concept of the Bill of Rights. Each person has certain rights that can't be taken away even through a a majority vote. For example, you have the right to voice your opinion as stated in the Bill of Rights even if 51% of the country thinks you don't.
There is a New Bill Of Rights written by the FLL Club.

The name of the new Bill of Rights is completely wrong along with the rest of the new Documents they have drawn up like the Patriotic Act should be called the Un-Patriotic Act.

It old Bill of Rights was re-written and is technically the NO Bill Of Rights unless you are firmly in the Religious Radical Right Wing and happy about discriminating against others such as Gays.
Got a link? This is news to me, and google isn't helpful.
The Link goes to his Arse.
I wondered about that, but figured I owuld try not to be one of where the link goes.

 

Mean MrMustard

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2001
3,144
10
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
ummm, I still believe we live in a democracy where majority rules.

Again, thank goodness we're voting on it and it will not be allowed in my state.

I'm stilll fvcking pissed off we (they, certainly not me) let blacks vote!

The downfall of America I tell you!

The day we let them vote was the day us 'true' (white) Americans lost our right to live as we please.

 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: ELP
Originally posted by: spidey07
ummm, I still believe we live in a democracy where majority rules.

Again, thank goodness we're voting on it and it will not be allowed in my state.

I'm stilll fvcking pissed off we (they, certainly not me) let blacks vote!

The downfall of America I tell you!

The day we let them vote was the day us 'true' (white) Americans lost our right to live as we please.

Don't forget the apartment-dwellers and women! Why can't it just go bac k to landed men, dammit!
 

Project86

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2002
1,001
3
81
Originally posted by: Engineer

50+% of all marriage ends in divorce. (Jennifer Lopez counts for 2% of that number! :laugh: )

Source? This is quoted A LOT and I've never been able to find a real source.





 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Project86
Originally posted by: Engineer

50+% of all marriage ends in divorce. (Jennifer Lopez counts for 2% of that number! :laugh: )

Source? This is quoted A LOT and I've never been able to find a real source.

Google will answer your question.

OH - and the amendment passed by a landslide in KY. We are protecting marriage by voting! Glorious victory for all!

Wahoo!

:thumbsup:
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
Originally posted by: lordtyranus
Awesome. It's about time something was done to solve this problem. :thumbsup:


good, someone else agrees. and like someone else posted, then heterosexuals cant marry members of the same gender either...wahhh...they're taking my rights away....

Homosexual marrage is against the bible, and that's good enough for me. Read Romans, it makes it very clear. And if they wanna get married, let them go ahead and move to Canada.

 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Eh, I have friends who are gay who don't support gay marriage or gay adoption...do they hate themselves?

These have nothing to do with HATING gays. And any good Christian doesn't hate anyone. Read the new testament.

I Proudly voted to defend Marriage between a man and a woman. Has nothing to do with hate I just don't want the gay agenda to cheapen our values. I too know gay that don't loke this they just want to be left alone. Thier feeling wouldn't change just cause they had a piece of paper.

Also they have the right to marry just as you and I except their lifestyle keeps them from it.
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Crimson
I find it ironic that many of the people in here saying those who refuse to accept gay marriage are bigots and hate gays.. but will turn around and BASH Christians like they should have no rights whatsoever.. Some of those acusing others of hate in this thread should practice what they preach.
...and some people are just full of it, spouting crap like this. I've seen tons of mentions of people bashing christians, but have yet to see it occur in a thread. Anybody else notice this?
Then you are a retard or you just got here. It is rampant.
Can you show some example, then? I've read that statement far more times than I've read any Christian-bashing. The only thing I've seen even close is against drpootums, who just needs to get out a little more.


lol, thanks. Everywhere u go, if u say ur a christian people say ur an extremist, ur dumb, u hate muslims, and anonomis other insults/lies. For having 5000 posts i would think you would know better than to write that lie down. And i get out enough, that's why i'm a christian, because after seeing people like u day to day i need to know at least someone is watching out for me.

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
The Amendment Proposed:
Marriage consists only of the legal union between a man and a woman. No other domestic union, however denominated, may be recognized as a marriage or given the same or substantially equivalent legal effect.
The first sentence is ok in my mind. If people want to be anal-retentive on that terminology, so be it. I guess I agree that different terms should apply to traditional unions vs non-traditional unions.

The second part is the discriminatory part. This is being taken as the ability of companies and the like to deny any sort of benefits to a life partner. It also helps to stop one partner from being able to visit the other, or to provide medical decisions in various situations. Now, if you've lived with someone for 30 years, they most likely know you.... why shouldn't they be allowed to obtain your medical records or make decisions? There would obviously have to be extra legal precaution to be sure that both parties want this to be the case, but isn't it worth it?

I don't see how voting No on this in any way discriminates against anyone.... a No vote leaves the issue to still be resolved, and changes nothing regarding straight couples. You can't argue that providing medical and job-related benefits to same-sex couples is somehow discriminating againt straight couples.... you're just providing equal rights to both groups. I'd concede that we shouldn't provide job-related benefits unless the two are in a legal union; however, the medical things like making life-or-death decisions should be provided to same-sex couples just as with straight couples. Maybe have a cohabitation requirement? That way, there's a better chance that both will know the other's preferences.

The legal process we have now for straight couples could and should be applied to same-sex couples. I've known gay people in my life (one lives on my floor), and they are people too.... they should be treated as such.

Finally, to draw some parallels inspired by other readings. Do we disallow non-white couples benefits that white couples are allowed? No. Do we disallow non-Christian couples benefits that Christians are provided? No. (Please understand that this is just an example, and the groups picked out have no significance other than that they provide 2 different groupings to compare.) Race, religion.... why not sexual orientation, too?

Another interesting point gleaned from my Religion class that weakens religious moral arguments: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus specifically states that divorce in ANY case but being unchaste is not allowed.... but society today allows it. If you don't allow homosexual unions, don't you then have to disallow divorce?

Posted 10/30/2004 at 12:20 AM by golferzozz

don't get me started on measure one or the defensive marriage amendment

four arguments

I. Religious Institution
II. Sanctity not protected thru Disallowment
III. Tenth Amendment > Let's keep it that way <
IV. Full Faith and Credit
Posted 10/30/2004 at 12:59 AM by wjethromiller

If we're going to divorce the church completely from state, we'll have this as an issue. As Christians, we believe the marriages should be permanent for life. We also believe that marrying of a different race is unadvisable. Let me explain that last sentence, so I'm not considered a racist pig--if we take modern biology, and compare different human "races," we find very little difference that makes up what color we are (very little compared to the total difference between each, EACH human). Race, to Christians, is whether we believe in the same God or not. Marrying someone who is also a Christian helps us be a Christian. Marrying someone who is not can be detrimental to faith. A lot of earlier biology dealing with the descent of man considered aborigines and other races to be less evolved--giving a reason for people to scream their racism at people. But God tells us to love everyone.

If we were to institute a "perfect" institution of marriage in Christianity, it would be in an environment where marriage is encouraged by the rest of the society (village, if you will) and divorce would be almost non-existent. Everybody is working to build up the marriage, instead of the junk we see on television about the greener grass on the other side of the fence. Divorce would be only in this case of the unchaste problem. But we are considered to be united in flesh to the person we marry and have sex with.

State run marriages require divorce. You're not going to have the same amount of commitment, the same type of village, and all the other factors in each case of marriage. Some state marriages are longer lasting than church done (probably), but in a Christian marriage, these commitment values should be higher, though you can't see these of the soon to be wed couple. What I'm trying to say is that Christian marriage is/should be more of a big thing. It's more serious, and the commitment should be higher. After all, we're continuing the human race and filling up the globe.

As for your last question, "If you don't allow homosexual unions, don't you then have to disallow divorce?" There is nothing stopping us from doing so. No law tells us that if we take something from the Bible, we have to take all of it. Now this is a pretty ridiculous, childish remark, so I'll try to enunciate another possibility. I guess I'd have to say that in Christian marriages, where we take care of what God thinks, we shouldn't allow gay marriage. Of course, I can't decide for each church that they can or cannot allow them. As for state run marriages, why call them marriages? I would say they are civil unions. Marriage has never really been defined by civilization--more of a description of what's there. We've had men and women throughout the age of the Earth being together and producing offspring. This is what our bodies were made for--one of each sex. Two of the same is not a natural body function.

So when I (or any other) argue from a stance that's Biblical, I'm called a religious nut, and when I say that it's not natural for any other behavior than for a man to have sex with a woman (I would add here: in the blessing of marriage, but see first clause), I'm called a homophobe or behind the times. Marriages of different races and different religions were accepted in times past, why can't you accept marriages of same sex? It's just not natural--it goes against nature. So I guess that means these are the definitions I would say or the view I would see: marriage is between a man and a wife--generally the best type of environment for a kid to grow up in--and should be done soley by the church. A civil union is between two consenting adults and is done by the state.

But even then, if we cannot distinguish what is natural (ie: those who say it's a trait, not a choice compared to the natural body function), and do not rely on some authority, what can we say about this certain thing? If we cannot figure out if it's natural or not and we don't quote some authority, in this case the Bible, for what marriage should be, how can it be defined at all?

Now for a side note. Cohabitation is practically always a bad thing, at least for heterosexuals. The chance of physical abuse is higher for the woman and also for any kids that might come along, even if the parents get married before their child is born. The chance that any marriage will end in divorce is higher after cohabitation. Many other things can go awry like this. Requiring homosexuals to cohabit is an invitation for disaster, but maybe I'm just tired.

Someone destroy that.
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
oh yes, and for the people calling us bigots, maybe we should be like canada and be jailed for talking out against homosexual marrage.

Sounds like they're getting a bit further away from democracy there...
 

Project86

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2002
1,001
3
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Project86
Originally posted by: Engineer

50+% of all marriage ends in divorce. (Jennifer Lopez counts for 2% of that number! :laugh: )

Source? This is quoted A LOT and I've never been able to find a real source.

Google will answer your question.

OH - and the amendment passed by a landslide in KY. We are protecting marriage by voting! Glorious victory for all!

Wahoo!

:thumbsup:



No, it won't, hence my comment. Try it. I'm personally doubting this quote, as I think it is too vague. 50% of all new marriages end in divorce? Or 50% of total marriages, including those already existing for many years? What's the cutoff point? Does this consider all regions of the country? It sounds like an urban legend to me... I'm sure the rate IS higher than it should be though.

 

SacrosanctFiend

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
4,269
0
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Eh, I have friends who are gay who don't support gay marriage or gay adoption...do they hate themselves?

These have nothing to do with HATING gays. And any good Christian doesn't hate anyone. Read the new testament.

I Proudly voted to defend Marriage between a man and a woman. Has nothing to do with hate I just don't want the gay agenda to cheapen our values. I too know gay that don't loke this they just want to be left alone. Thier feeling wouldn't change just cause they had a piece of paper.

Also they have the right to marry just as you and I except their lifestyle keeps them from it.

That was kinda my point...without the whole religious aspect.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: drpootums
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Crimson
I find it ironic that many of the people in here saying those who refuse to accept gay marriage are bigots and hate gays.. but will turn around and BASH Christians like they should have no rights whatsoever.. Some of those acusing others of hate in this thread should practice what they preach.
...and some people are just full of it, spouting crap like this. I've seen tons of mentions of people bashing christians, but have yet to see it occur in a thread. Anybody else notice this?
Then you are a retard or you just got here. It is rampant.
Can you show some example, then? I've read that statement far more times than I've read any Christian-bashing. The only thing I've seen even close is against drpootums, who just needs to get out a little more.
lol, thanks. Everywhere u go, if u say ur a christian people say ur an extremist, ur dumb, u hate muslims, and anonomis other insults/lies. For having 5000 posts i would think you would know better than to write that lie down. And i get out enough, that's why i'm a christian, because after seeing people like u day to day i need to know at least someone is watching out for me.
You're welcome. If you are a fundamentalist, then you are an extremist, regardless of religion (or lack of).

Personally: it was you-bashing, not Christian-bashing. If I want to bash Christians, I have friends and family to use as targets. However, I can discuss things with most of them with no books being quoted for justification, nor judgement on my soul's fate, nor judgement on other religions based on small numbers of extremists.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Where are the people bashing only southern states for this? Fvcking idiots.
77% in GA, 92% MI, last I knew. Why NOT bash the Southern states for this?

<- Georgia boy
 
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