Vulcan Delayed

[VirtualLarry]

Where exactly are you expecting Vulcan games, may I ask? Vulcan is simply a newer version of OpenGL.

As of recent times we have two Wolfenstein games and the upcoming Doom which use OpenGL. So a total of 3. Meanwhile we have thousands of current and upcoming games based on Direct3D.

OpenGL is largely dead on Windows and Vulcan isn't going to change that no matter how delusional some get. And Linux/MacOS/Android are virtually irrelevant to AMD/nVidia in terms of market share and sales.

Aren't most mobile games written for OpenGL (Or "OpenGL ES", I'm not quite sure what the difference is)?

 

[DeathReborn]

How is "Vulcan Delayed" turned into an AMD failure?

Considering that to some Vulkan is just Mantle with a new name (despite some parts being replaced with vendor neutral code) it's not a big leap for others to say it's bad on AMD.

I don't see it as a bad for AMD thing, I see it as a bad for Vulkan thing, with the delay being non technical in nature it's disappointing.

 

[boozzer]

people actually wait/look forward to stuff like this? I would understand if you are a dev but a regular consumer? why?

Q: wouldn't vulcan be redundant with DX12 already out? what is the difference?

 

[TheELF]

Q: wouldn't vulcan be redundant with DX12 already out? what is the difference?

Not everybody likes, wants, can afford,can run windows 10 and Dx12 will only run on win10 while vulcan will run on pretty much anything.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Aren't most mobile games written for OpenGL (Or "OpenGL ES", I'm not quite sure what the difference is)?

OpenGL ES, they are not getting Vulcan.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not everybody likes, wants, can afford,can run windows 10 and Dx12 will only run on win10 while vulcan will run on pretty much anything.

We heard that story many times before. And it turns out the same way as always. DX12 and just DX12 is the winner. But in reality DX11(.3) will keep being the king. But that's another story.

 

[dark zero]

people actually wait/look forward to stuff like this? I would understand if you are a dev but a regular consumer? why?

Q: wouldn't vulcan be redundant with DX12 already out? what is the difference?

Strong differences.
DX12 only accepts Intel, AMD, Qualcomm and nVIDIA. Also is Windows Only.

Vulkan is all x86,ARM and even MIPS. Also, is not only Windows, but accepts Linux and who knows? Even MAC

 

[dacostafilipe]

OpenGL ES, they are not getting Vulcan.

What are you talking about?

Google choose Vulcan as the next graphic API for Android.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

How is "Vulcan Delayed" turned into an AMD failure?

AMD keeps touting their performance in these new "close to metal" renderers as some kind of holy grail to make up for the absence of multicore rendering in their DX11 drivers.

Having used mantle and dx11 renderers on my ancient Q9550, there really is a huge difference for AMD users who aren't using an i7 5970X Extreme processor (or whatever).

Now mantle is dead and Vulkan is supposed to be its rebirth... And it's delayed.

 

[TheELF]

Now mantle is dead and Vulkan is supposed to be its rebirth... And it's delayed.

To be fair it will only be delayed if it is not out before the first commercial game,because let's be honest having windows 10 and Dx12 right now doesn't give you anything.
(unless you are into emulation dolphin and cemu the wiiU emulator both came out with a Dx12 version)

 

[boozzer]

Not everybody likes, wants, can afford,can run windows 10 and Dx12 will only run on win10 while vulcan will run on pretty much anything.

thanks for the answer guys.

 

[dogen1]

Where exactly are you expecting Vulcan games, may I ask? Vulcan is simply a newer version of OpenGL.

As of recent times we have two Wolfenstein games and the upcoming Doom which use OpenGL. So a total of 3. Meanwhile we have thousands of current and upcoming games based on Direct3D.

OpenGL is largely dead on Windows and Vulcan isn't going to change that no matter how delusional some get. And Linux/MacOS/Android are virtually irrelevant to AMD/nVidia in terms of market share and sales.

A lot of the main reasons that people rarely use OpenGL aren't applicable to Vulkan.

Now mantle is dead and Vulkan is supposed to be its rebirth... And it's delayed.

If mantle was dead LiquidVR wouldn't exist. I think you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[3DVagabond]

AMD keeps touting their performance in these new "close to metal" renderers as some kind of holy grail to make up for the absence of multicore rendering in their DX11 drivers.

Having used mantle and dx11 renderers on my ancient Q9550, there really is a huge difference for AMD users who aren't using an i7 5970X Extreme processor (or whatever).

Now mantle is dead and Vulkan is supposed to be its rebirth... And it's delayed.

Vulkan is controlled by Khronos. When AMD had "it" as Mantle they were moving along quite nicely with it. Now that others are involved it's bogged down. If I wanted to spin it I could blame nVidia a lot easier than AMD. Which I'm not, before all the green minions descend on the post.

DX11 multicore rendering as far as I know doesn't exist. I think it has multi thread rendering, not multi core. Could be wrong. Either way the issues with DX11 are not AMD's fault either. It's amazing how AMD haters want to blame AMD for everything. Khronos... Msft... Who's else failures would you like to lay at the feet of AMD?

 

[TheELF]

Vulkan is controlled by Khronos. When AMD had "it" as Mantle they were moving along quite nicely with it. Now that others are involved it's bogged down. If I wanted to spin it I could blame nVidia a lot easier than AMD. Which I'm not, before all the green minions descend on the post.

Just to play devils advocate but dice/sony was moving "it" along quite nicely.

DX11 multicore rendering as far as I know doesn't exist. I think it has multi thread rendering, not multi core. Could be wrong. Either way the issues with DX11 are not AMD's fault either. It's amazing how AMD haters want to blame AMD for everything. Khronos... Msft... Who's else failures would you like to lay at the feet of AMD?

It does exist,but nobody uses it because it is just a crappy idea to begin with,same goes for mantle and Dx12 multi core/thread/whatever rendering, it makes for wildly fluctuating FPS,look at that video when game code is running only two cores get used but if you look at the sky 4-5 threads/cores can be used to render frames resulting in FPS swings from 30 to 130 ... that's just insane,nobody wants that in their games,that's why ryse that is based on this engine has a fixed camera so you always are on a middle grounds,but who wants that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEafN99Q4K4

 

[Snafuh]

It does exist,but nobody uses it because it is just a crappy idea to begin with,same goes for mantle and Dx12 multi core/thread/whatever rendering, it makes for wildly fluctuating FPS

That's not true. Multi threading in DX11 is a workaround by the driver. Dx12/Vulkan has multiple command buffers which can be filled by individual threads. This makes multi threading a lot easier and more efficient.
nextgenapis.realtimerendering.com
These slides are very interesting and more or less easy to understand. Especially the second one is a must read.

 

[dogen1]

That's not true. Multi threading in DX11 is a workaround by the driver. Dx12/Vulkan has multiple command buffers which can be filled by individual threads. This makes multi threading a lot easier and more efficient.
nextgenapis.realtimerendering.com
These slides are very interesting and more or less easy to understand. Especially the second one is a must read.

Actually D3D11 does allow you to submit draw calls simultaneously with multiple threads, but the main thread is still the hard limit. I think in some scenarios you can get maybe a 2x increase in performance. 2x might only happen in synthetic draw call benchmarks though.

Here's a picture illustrating the bottleneck.

 

[tential]

Vulkan is controlled by Khronos. When AMD had "it" as Mantle they were moving along quite nicely with it. Now that others are involved it's bogged down. If I wanted to spin it I could blame nVidia a lot easier than AMD. Which I'm not, before all the green minions descend on the post.

DX11 multicore rendering as far as I know doesn't exist. I think it has multi thread rendering, not multi core. Could be wrong. Either way the issues with DX11 are not AMD's fault either. It's amazing how AMD haters want to blame AMD for everything. Khronos... Msft... Who's else failures would you like to lay at the feet of AMD?

Why exactly are AMD's DX11 failure drivers not their fault? Nvidia was able to get their drivers working far better for DX11? AMD just decided to wait for DX12/Vulcan rather than fix the issue with their drivers.

That's THEIR fault.

As for Mantle moving along nicely before it turned into Vulcan and got bogged down... That's not anyone elses fault. That's AMD's fault again. If AMD can execute in a superior manner then why would they involve other people... That's just lunacy.

But as always, you have to blame someone else, and why you would even think to blame Nvidia is beyond me.

 

[Techhog]

Reminder that some people here are hoping for new APIs to only be minor upgrades because the company they don't favor supports it. Just stop and think about how ridiculous that is.

 

[tential]

Reminder that some people here are hoping for new APIs to only be minor upgrades because the company they don't favor supports it. Just stop and think about how ridiculous that is.

I don't think ANYONE is hoping for it to be a "minor"upgrade. I think people are being realistic.

Will Vulkan really change everything? I'm just as skeptical as when people said Mantle would change everything.....

I'll believe it when I see it from AMD.

And I know with AMD, I'll have to WAIT to see it.

 

[Techhog]

I don't think ANYONE is hoping for it to be a "minor"upgrade. I think people are being realistic.

Will Vulkan really change everything? I'm just as skeptical as when people said Mantle would change everything.....

I'll believe it when I see it from AMD.

And I know with AMD, I'll have to WAIT to see it.

No, there are definitely people here who are against it. I don't think that it'll change everything, but a lot of people here seem to think that it'll bring no change whatsoever.

 

[3DVagabond]

Why exactly are AMD's DX11 failure drivers not their fault? Nvidia was able to get their drivers working far better for DX11? AMD just decided to wait for DX12/Vulcan rather than fix the issue with their drivers.

That's THEIR fault.

As for Mantle moving along nicely before it turned into Vulcan and got bogged down... That's not anyone elses fault. That's AMD's fault again. If AMD can execute in a superior manner then why would they involve other people... That's just lunacy.

But as always, you have to blame someone else, and why you would even think to blame Nvidia is beyond me.

You have the lowest reading comprehension of anyone I've ever dealt with. I specifically said I wasn't blaming nVidia. Specifically!

If I wanted to spin it I could blame nVidia a lot easier than AMD. Which I'm not, before all the green minions descend on the post.

Whether you agree with their decision, Khronos delaying it is Khronos' fault. That's merely common sense. The reason for doing it is so everyone could and would use it.

I suppose you think AMD should have spent their resources optimizing for other people's hardware? Then someone like nVidia would refuse to use it anyway like they refuse to support Freesync. That would be lunacy.

Turning it over to a group to make it an open standard is precisely what all of Mantle's detractors asked for. Of course they said AMD would never do that. That's because they have no comprehension of what AMD is doing. The same people who swore there would never be an APU in the next gen consoles. Or Hawaii was going to be dual dies because AMD would never make a truly monolithic GPU.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Vulkan is controlled by Khronos. When AMD had "it" as Mantle they were moving along quite nicely with it. Now that others are involved it's bogged down. If I wanted to spin it I could blame nVidia a lot easier than AMD. Which I'm not, before all the green minions descend on the post.

DX11 multicore rendering as far as I know doesn't exist. I think it has multi thread rendering, not multi core. Could be wrong. Either way the issues with DX11 are not AMD's fault either. It's amazing how AMD haters want to blame AMD for everything. Khronos... Msft... Who's else failures would you like to lay at the feet of AMD?

Maybe their own instead instead of blaming everybody else??

 

[tential]

Maybe their own instead instead of blaming everybody else??

Isn't this exactly what people were worried about? Amd going open source/involving other players on key things their gpu is supposed to excel in/need to perform, and then it being delayed due to the other players?

It's like, it should stop being suggested that things were fine with amd under mantle and that going to vulcan is what messed it up.
If it has stayed under amd, it was bound to fail.as vulcan amd loses control and we see things like this happen.

On top of it all, I'm not sure why people are mentioning that while direct x 12 may hold windows, this will be used in Android. So what? How does that help amd? So vulcan will be a handful of pc games and Android games?

I'm already completely disinterested from a pc gaming point.

Good thing it'll help my snapdragon phone for gaming? Unless amd is planning on being a serious competitor in any area where vulcan will be wildly used, why should anyone really care much about this?

 

[3DVagabond]

Because it will run in Windows too. It will even run in older versions of Windows.

 

[BFG10K]

Because it will run in Windows too. It will even run in older versions of Windows.

Irrelevant. Windows 10 is a free upgrade for 7+. Anyone running an older version shouldn't be doing so as it no longer has (mainstream) support.

Seriously, Vista is ten years old. Somebody that has hardware that can handle future Vulcan games won't be running a ten year old OS.

And again, we have 2 Wolfenstein games now and Doom as upcoming. I'm not sure why anyone is expecting Vulcan to suddenly create a landslide of Windows games.

I'll bet there'll be less Vulcan games than hardware PhysX games, and the latter is already a laughable niche.