Wait for Haswell/Vishera update?

[Essence_of_War]

If I'm thinking about building a new desktop, and I don't NEED to build it right now, that is to say, I have the money but my present desktop is functional for the tasks that I want it to perform, is it prudent to wait 3ish months for Haswell/Vishera-updates this summer?

My thinking was that maybe Haswell would drop prices further on IB cpus, and that a Vishera update might make amd's fx-line either a little more performance competitive or power efficient while still staying at a nice price point.

 

[DSF]

Intel doesn't do anything to intentionally lower the price on the previous processor lines when the new one releases. That's not to say that stores couldn't run sales, but generally they don't, at least not right away.

To me this question really doesn't have anything to do with Haswell or Vishera. If your current desktop does everything you need it to do, why would you upgrade anyway? Sock the money away until you actually need an upgrade, and then buy whatever's most cost-effective at that point. If that's Haswell, great. If it's not for another couple years, even better.

 

[TapWater]

always wait as long as you can.. thats my advice and I drink from the same fountain Just get something good when its time.

 

[Essence_of_War]

To me this question really doesn't have anything to do with Haswell or Vishera. If your current desktop does everything you need it to do, why would you upgrade anyway? Sock the money away until you actually need an upgrade, and then buy whatever's most cost-effective at that point. If that's Haswell, great. If it's not for another couple years, even better.

Maybe I should have been more clear, my current desktop is 6-7 years old, and while it's functional in the sense that it can run most of the simulation software and analysis software I use to work at home, and it's capable of running a handful of games, I'm no longer able to play many of the games I want to be able to play at acceptable frame rates, and I would like better CPU performance for the working applications I use.

So is it a better idea to just ignore the release cycle grind, and just get something that's good performance for dollar, especially if I'm not planning on touching anything except possibly the gpu within 3-5 years?

 

[aaksheytalwar]

wait for haswell if you upgrade only once in 3 years.

 

[Torn Mind]

Maybe I should have been more clear, my current desktop is 6-7 years old, and while it's functional in the sense that it can run most of the simulation software and analysis software I use to work at home, and it's capable of running a handful of games, I'm no longer able to play many of the games I want to be able to play at acceptable frame rates, and I would like better CPU performance for the working applications I use.

So is it a better idea to just ignore the release cycle grind, and just get something that's good performance for dollar, especially if I'm not planning on touching anything except possibly the gpu within 3-5 years?

It would be nice for you to tell us the specifics of your rig(in a spec sheet-like list) and games you are not able to play. Your graphics card could be the primary issue, for example.

Most likely, the drop down in cost will be in the used channel(classifieds, Ebay, Amazon Marketplace, off lease) and not at retailers like Newegg. The i5-2500K still goes for $219.99 at Newegg, for example, but there are Ebay Buy it Now listings going for $30-40 cheaper.

 

[DSF]

wait for haswell if you upgrade only once in 3 years.

I dunno, I'd argue the other way. Games are generally GPU-reliant enough that a CPU will easily last 3 years. Haswell is only something like a 5% performance improvement per clock.

If you want to play the games now, go for it. If you're not bothered by waiting a few months, waiting is almost always beneficial in the computer parts world.

Basically it comes down to a decision only you can make - whether you want to play games badly enough to spend the money right now. I don't think you would regret buying an Ivy Bridge and then replacing the GPU in a couple years. I just built my 3570K rig a couple months ago, and I'm glad I did.

 

[Essence_of_War]

It would be nice for you to tell us the specifics of your rig(in a spec sheet-like list) and games you are not able to play. Your graphics card could be the primary issue, for example.

Sure!

Right now I've got:
CPU: AMD Phenom x4 9550 @ 2ghz
GPU: nVidia 8500 GT
I need to double check the MoBo particulars, but it's an Asus w/ 3x1GB of DDR2.
I'd need to double check the PSU rating, but I didn't get it with the expectation of powering a card separately from PCI slot.

Presently I game on a 1280x1024 panel.

Some games I'd like to play that I can't play at reasonable frame rates w/ the kind of visual quality I'd like:
ME3/ME2, Skyrim, Dragon Age/Dragon Age 2, SC 2, Darksiders 2, Walking Dead, Kingdoms of Amalur, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, Dawn of War 2

 

[Torn Mind]

Your CPU and RAM definitely could use an upgrade, but that video card is indeed the main culprit to your gaming woes. It was a budget card right from its inception, so its performance was subpar right from the beginning. It is actually quite terrible these days.

Even an Intel HD 4000 IGP(not all Ivy Bridge CPUs have that, some have the weaker HD 2500) gets better benchmark scores in Passmark than it. Most likely, you'd be better off gaming of the IGP of a 3570K(the HD4000) than bringing that card into your new rig. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+8500+GT&id=1270
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4000&id=2

Bunch of reviews from way back about your card.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/graphics-cards/175572/nvidia-geforce-8400-gs-8500-gt

The 8500 GT managed a just-about-playable 29fps in Crysis at 1,024 x 768 with the uninspiring Low settings, and 28fps in Call of Duty 4 at 1,280 x 1,024 and Medium settings - results that are not too bad considering the price. But the 8400 GS performed almost identically to the HD 3450 in our tests: not very well. - See more at: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/grap...-geforce-8400-gs-8500-gt#sthash.OHwNEQJu.dpuf

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/78940-radeon-2400-xt-and-geforce-8500-gt-review
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/452



A Radeon HD 7750 might be suitable for your resolution, since most benchmarks have results at higher, more demanding resolutions such as 1680x1050. It doesn't even need a separate connector. If you do plan on upgrading the monitor to a 1080p or really want to max things out, a Radeon HD 7850 for about $100 more than the 7750 would serve you well.

As for the CPU, an upgrade to a i5-3570K would definitely improve your productivity and would make sure you don't choke the video card. Even an FX-4300 or A10-5800K can wipe the floor with the original Phenoms.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Yeah...I think in the latest rankings Tom's Hardware put the 8500 gt at ~4 tiers below on-board graphics for IB chips

 

[mfenn]

wait for haswell if you upgrade only once in 3 years.

Why? The performance difference in desktop chips is going to be marginal at best. The real focus for Haswell is laptops/tablets.

 

[mfenn]

Intel doesn't do anything to intentionally lower the price on the previous processor lines when the new one releases. That's not to say that stores couldn't run sales, but generally they don't, at least not right away.

Absolutely correct. Newegg isn't going to lose money on the CPUs that they bought from Intel and Intel isn't lowering prices. Newegg isn't a retail store, so they don't have to worry about shelf space nearly as much. Somebody is going to buy those chips eventually (replacing broken CPUs, upgrading old machines, etc.).

 

[Ancalagon44]

You've waited 6 or 7 years already, whats another 3 months? Apparently Haswell has around a 10% IPC increase too, and who knows, maybe it has more overclocking headroom? I dont know how Richland will differ to Trinity, but it will be an improvement in at least a few ways, and may be worth waiting for.

At least you know that anything you upgrade to, will be vastly faster than what you have now.

Out of interest, what games do you play?

EDIT: Besides which, Haswell uses a new socket. No use buying into what will shortly be a dead socket.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

To OP - YES!
If this were a year ago, then build. We should be _this_ close to HW's release.

<-- Also waiting for HW, though I already cheated and upgraded my office rig from a PII X4 to a 2500K

 

[JackMDS]

If I'm thinking about building a new desktop, and I don't NEED to build it right now.

Meaning you don't have technological problem but a Psychological one.

May be you can find something better to do with your money rather than wasting it on pieces of Silicone and Plastic.

 

[mfenn]

EDIT: Besides which, Haswell uses a new socket. No use buying into what will shortly be a dead socket.

Given the OP's upgrade cycle, all sockets are dead sockets.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sure!

Right now I've got:
CPU: AMD Phenom x4 9550 @ 2ghz
GPU: nVidia 8500 GT
I need to double check the MoBo particulars, but it's an Asus w/ 3x1GB of DDR2.
I'd need to double check the PSU rating, but I didn't get it with the expectation of powering a card separately from PCI slot.

Presently I game on a 1280x1024 panel.

Some games I'd like to play that I can't play at reasonable frame rates w/ the kind of visual quality I'd like:
ME3/ME2, Skyrim, Dragon Age/Dragon Age 2, SC 2, Darksiders 2, Walking Dead, Kingdoms of Amalur, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, Dawn of War 2

Newegg is running a special on the Athlon II X4 640 3.0Ghz AM3 CPU. If your mobo is AM2+ (which I believe was a requirement to run Phenom I chips), then there may be a BIOS update to allow it to take Athlon II AM3 CPUs.

Get a fourth 1GB DDR2 stick, and then get a 7750. You should be all set for a while longer.
$70 AM3 640
$20 1GB DDR2
$90? 7750

Or if you have a Microcenter nearby, we can explore your combo mobo+CPU options. MC often has killer combo deals.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I think I might just sit tight until the summer and then move forward from there. As several people have aptly pointed out, I've waited quite a while so far, and it obviously will not kill me to wait another couple of months.

I will take your suggestion into serious consideration though VirtualLarry! 90ish bucks for a breath of computing fresh air seems like a fantastic deal.

 

[Ancalagon44]

As long as your motherboard and power supply supported it, you could upgrade your video card tomorrow. You would get limited mileage out of it due to your CPU, but you could do it. It would still make a helluva difference considering how slow an 8500GT is.

 

[Zap]

I need to double check the MoBo particulars, but it's an Asus w/ 3x1GB of DDR2.

Doesn't that put the motherboard into single channel mode? Can you try removing one stick while keeping the other two in the proper slots for dual channel mode and see if performance gets any better (without multitasking to keep RAM usage low).

Given the OP's upgrade cycle, all sockets are dead sockets.

As long as your motherboard and power supply supported it, you could upgrade your video card tomorrow. You would get limited mileage out of it due to your CPU, but you could do it. It would still make a helluva difference considering how slow an 8500GT is.

Yeah, I agree that the graphics card is the primary holdup here. Three options, all viable.

1) Buy a graphics card upgrade now. Either the best that doesn't use a PCIe power plug similar to your 8500 GT which as VirtualLarry suggested would be a Radeon 7750, or figure out what your PSU can handle (tell us make/model) and then get the best that it can reasonably handle inside of your budget.

2) Wait for Haswell and get that for the IGP and not for the CPU part. The IGP is a boost over HD 4000, and should be a reasonable amount faster than your 8500 GT. You may not even need to buy a discrete graphics card at this point.

3) Buy Ivy Bridge with HD 4000 now. It will still be better than your 8500 GT but not as good as Haswell. If it can run your games at your lowly resolution, then keep it that way. Alternately you can get one with lower end HD 2500 and get a discrete card.

I would choose #2 and build a fully modern SFF rig with Haswell + SSD.

 

[Hubb1e]

Doesn't that put the motherboard into single channel mode? Can you try removing one stick while keeping the other two in the proper slots for dual channel mode and see if performance gets any better (without multitasking to keep RAM usage low).

The performance hit for running in single channel mode is around 5% which isn't enough to make a noticable difference in the real world. He's better with with having enough RAM.

I'd personally upgrade now. Haswell parts will have a premium on them when they first come out which so if you want a deal then you're looking at a 6 month wait. The motherboards for Haswell will be especially expensive as they always are with a new socket.

Realistically Haswell will be 5-10% faster and given your upgrade cycle, won't mean much to you in the long run. And leaked benchmarks are showing closer to 5% which can be easily overcome with a slight overclock or by getting a faster chip than you were planning on getting.