Wake turbulence from an A380 flipped a small business jet 3 times

[Red Squirrel]

Also firing someone for a mistake is stupid, if you have to walk on egg shells every moment of your job because you're scared of getting fired you're more likely to do even more mistakes.

Shit happens, sometimes people just have to accept that.

 

[John Connor]

even takeoff requirements are less stringent than landing for similar reasons.

I don't think it's less stringent. Remember what happened right after 9/11 with that A/C crash into a NY neighborhood? It was due to wake turbulence and they since have increased the minima separation on take off. They even say, "caution the wake turbulence."

If I was a pilot and an A/C was just taking off in front of me, especially an A380, I wouldn't be taking off right away.

 

[Kalvin00]

I don't think it's less stringent. Remember what happened right after 9/11 with that A/C crash into a NY neighborhood? It was due to wake turbulence and they since have increased the minima separation on take off. They even say, "caution the wake turbulence."

If I was a pilot and an A/C was just taking off in front of me, especially an A380, I wouldn't be taking off right away.

Well... it was due to the pilot tearing the tail off the plane from unnecessarily working the rudder. But yes, it was because he freaked out over the wake turbulence.

 

[feralkid]

From the links below the article, it looks like this is a common thing, and you just DON'T want to pass behind and below an A380.

But really? 1-2 minutes later? That would be like 10 miles away. Something doesn't add up in this particular story...

Wing tip vortices, wake turbulence, etc. can last quite a while; here are some other incidents (from Wikipedia).

• 8 June 1966 - an XB-70 collided with an F-104. Though the true cause of the collision is unknown, it is believed that due to the XB-70 being designed to have an enhanced wake turbulence to increase lift, the F-104 moved too close, therefore getting caught in the vortex and colliding with the wing (see main article).
• 30 May 1972 - A DC-9 crashed at the Greater Southwest International Airport while performing "touch and go" landings behind a DC-10. This crash prompted the FAA to create new rules for minimum following separation from "heavy" aircraft.
• 16 Jan 1987 - A Yakovlev Yak-40 crashed just after take-off in Tashkent. The flight took off just one minute fifteen seconds after an Ilyushin Il-76, thus encountering its wake vortex. The Yakovlev Yak-40 then banked sharply to the right, struck the ground, and caught fire. All 9 people on board Aeroflot Flight 505 died.[19]
• 15 December 1993 - a chartered aircraft with five people on board, including In-N-Out Burger's president, Rich Snyder, crashed several miles before John Wayne Airport. The aircraft was following a Boeing 757 for landing, became caught in its wake turbulence, rolled into a deep descent and crashed. As a result of this and other incidents involving aircraft following behind a Boeing 757, the FAA now employs the separation rules of heavy aircraft for the Boeing 757.
• 8 September 1994 - USAir Flight 427 crashed near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This accident was believed to involve wake turbulence, though the primary cause was a defective rudder control component.
• 20 September 1999 - A JAS 39A Gripen from Airwing F 7 Såtenäs crashed into Lake Vänern in Sweden during an air combat maneuvering exercise. After passing through the wake vortex of the other aircraft, the Gripen abruptly changed course, and pilot Capt. Rickard Mattsson, got a highest-severity warning from the ground-collision warning system. He ejected from the aircraft, and landed safely by parachute in the lake.
• 12 November 2001 - American Airlines Flight 587 crashed into the Belle Harbor neighborhood of Queens, New York shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport. This accident was attributed to pilot error in the presence of wake turbulence from a Boeing 747, that resulted in rudder failure and subsequent separation of the vertical stabilizer.
• 8 July 2008 - A US Air Force PC-12 trainer crashed at Hurlburt Field, Fla., because the pilot tried to land too closely behind a larger AC-130U Spooky gunship and got caught in the gunship’s wake turbulence. Air Force rules require at least a two-minute separation between slow-moving heavy planes like the AC-130U and small, light planes, but the PC-12 trailed the gunship by about 40 seconds. As the PC-12 hit the wake turbulence, it suddenly rolled to the left and began to turn upside down. The instructor pilot stopped the roll, but before he could get the plane upright, the left wing struck the ground, sending the plane skidding 669 feet across a field before stopping on a paved overrun.[20]
• 3 November 2008 - Wake turbulence of an Airbus A380-800 causing temporary loss of control to a Saab 340 on approach to a parallel runway during high crosswind conditions.[21]
• 4 November 2008 - In the infamous 2008 Mexico City plane crash, a LearJet 45 XC-VMC carrying Mexican Interior Secretary Juan Camilo Mouriño, crashed near Paseo de la Reforma Avenue before turning for final approach to runway 05R at Mexico City International Airport. The airplane was flying behind a 767-300 and above a heavy helicopter. The pilots were not told about the type of plane that was approaching before them, nor did they reduce to minimum approach speed.[citation needed] (This has been confirmed as the official stance by the Mexican Government as stated by Luiz Tellez, the Secretary of Communications of Mexico.)[citation needed]
• On 9 September 2012, a Robin DR 400 crashed after rolling 90 degrees in a wake turbulence induced by the preceding Antonov AN-2, three killed, one severely injured.[22][23]
• On 28 March 2014, Indian Air Force C-130J-30 KC-3803 crashed near Gwalior, India, killing all 5 personnel aboard.[24][25][26] The aircraft was conducting low level penetration training by flying at around 300 ft when it ran into wake turbulence from another aircraft in the formation, which caused it to crash.[27]

 

[KillerCharlie]

Well... it was due to the pilot tearing the tail off the plane from unnecessarily working the rudder. But yes, it was because he freaked out over the wake turbulence.

Yeah, that was classified purely as pilot and training error. Wake turbulence wasn't even listed as a contributing cause. It was absolutely absurd that these pilots were taught that jamming back and forth on the rudder would magically reduce the turbulence upset.

If they simply did nothing during the event, they would've been fine.

 

[Darwin333]

They were going in opposite directions and the smaller plane was one thouthand feet above.

Oh wow, I didn't realize the smaller aircraft was above the larger one and would further explain why the pilot wasn't expecting wake turbulence. Wake turbulence falls towards the ground, the actual procedure for smaller aircraft following larger aircraft is to fly above them. For example a smaller aircraft landing after a larger one just did will land further down the runway than the larger aircraft so that it's flight path is always above the flight path the larger plane took. It's very rare for wake turbulence to rise, especially 1,000 feet. Hell I think even when it drops it's generally dissipated or at least pretty severely diminished in 1,000 feet. Must have been some pretty crazy atmospheric conditions for it to rise that far and still be that strong but from what I know the pilot of the smaller plane was going by the book.

 

[John Connor]

Well... it was due to the pilot tearing the tail off the plane from unnecessarily working the rudder. But yes, it was because he freaked out over the wake turbulence.

Over compensation can be a bitch. But you really can't blame the PIC since it was indeed turbulence that caused the A/C to yaw like a mother.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Gooooooose.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Over compensation can be a bitch. But you really can't blame the PIC since it was indeed turbulence that caused the A/C to yaw like a mother.

Wrong. Pilots are absolutely supposed to know how to deal with turbulence. What the pilot did (jamming back and forth on the rudder) does not make sense in any scenario. That is why the pilots (and their training) were listed as the cause of the accident by the NTSB, not wake them turbulence.

 

[pete6032]

that's what happens when you look at the alpha plane the wrong way.

lmao.

 

[zinfamous]

I'd prefer flights without flipping thanks. Dipping a little is fine. Turbulence can be fun. But flipping? Oh hell no, I didn't get on a plane to do loopdy loops

I have weird dreams like this every so often. I'm taking some flight to some normal destination--say NC to the Caribbean or wherever, commercial flight...and for whatever reason, the normal path and operation of this flight requires the plane to ascend at some height, perform a loop-d-loop, and continue on course. In dream world, of course, this all just normal and acceptable to everyone, but I'm the only one shitting my pants every time. And I am subjected to this flight about 3 or 4 times in the same dream. I just keep taking it

 

[zinfamous]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence

a small plane following an A-380 is required to maintain 8nm of separation

8 nanometers of distance, huh? I don't know, Snapper, but that seems a little close...

 

[Darwin333]

8 nanometers of distance, huh? I don't know, Snapper, but that seems a little close...

LOL, pretty sure he means nautical miles

 

[zinfamous]

LOL, pretty sure he means nautical miles

oh you're probably right, and it seems I'm not the first to bring up nanometers....but I don't speak sailor talk and I deal in nanometeres/nanograms every day, so that is more familiar to me.

 

[momeNt]

The plane rolled, did not flip. Considering the g-forces involved, it is highly likely that everybody stayed in their seat.

Was this really caused by the A380 though? They create that much wind disturbance? What is the impact of that on the environment?