Wall mounting a plasma - not a standard depth wall?

[destrekor]

This new home of mine continues to throw a wrench into all of my plans. Nothing is simple! As they say, all good plans fall apart upon implementation. sigh

This is a townstyle-style condo. The wall I am going to use for the TV is the shared wall between units, and it's in the basement. This wall does have studs, but... they are horizontal [NOTE: bad description! see clarification in this post]. Meaning, the wall depth is about 1.5" instead of roughly 3.5". But the face of the stud is of course wider than normal. Makes it harder to miss, yay? And there are basic thin wall panels attached throughout the basement, and I think I want to keep it that way. Not a fan of panels, but... the association takes care of any kind of leaks or issues with the foundation or issues between the units, and having a panel that can be removed easily for repairs is a heck of a lot better than having to patch drywall. .

Behind the studs appears to be concrete. There is a firewall between the units, but I don't know if that firewall extends into the basement or if the basement is just a concrete box all around for each unit.

The difficulty in trying to figure out how to approach this:
A) Can I securely mount the TV using concrete screws/anchors (Tapcon anchors) that match the mounting depth and use them to drill through first the shallow wood and then into the concrete?
B) Cheap and easy way to still work these into the picture: https://www.powerbridgesolution.com/product/two-ck-connector-kit ?

I am really trying to do everything I can to hide wires throughout the entire basement. I will be using small black raceway to run along the bottom of the front and left walls, and what speaker wire I can will be hidden behind the walls, especially the rear bookshelves that will have raceways run up to their position but then the wire will be hidden behind the wall panels.

But where I was really hoping to succeed with the wire-free look is for the TV - tuck cables at floor level, and use a power extension kit like the one I linked to bring power and hdmi up to the TV.


Is it easy to achieve objective A but some investment is required for objective B? That's kind of what I am figuring, like having to extend at least part of the one wall out to provide proper depth? I really want the TV to be able to be on a surge protector and especially on a UPS.

In time I wouldn't mind extending the wall (just the portion behind the TV) out a few inches so I can properly hide cables behind the wall. But I'm not sure that's an added cost I am not willing to eat just yet. Maybe planned out down the road and just use a cable cover for now?

 

[MrSquished]

TV stand. problem solved. you get your TV set up and don't kill your neighbors.

 

[destrekor]

TV stand. problem solved. you get your TV set up and don't kill your neighbors.

I have that, I'm trying to get rid of it.

 

[MrSquished]

I have that, I'm trying to get rid of it.

If you want to hide the wires run it behind the drywall from the TV stand. I see it all the time.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

First - you are going to need to provide some reinforcement for the wall mount for the plasma TV. I'm not sure how big of a tv we are talking here, but I had a 50" plasma once and it weighed over 100 lbs. I would install a a couple of 2x6's behind the wall (2 should fit between the studs assuming they are 16" OC) - that way the weight of the mount and tv will be distriibuted better. I definitely wouldn't want to hang 100+lbs off of a single 2x4 that is probably toe-nailed in with only 1 or two nails on each side of a significant span.

As for hiding the lines - since the wall panels are designed to be easily removed, remove one where you are planning to put the TV and use a circular saw (regular or with a dado blade) and cut a channel in the studs (and any reionforcement you add)for the power and HDMI cables. Obviously cut the channel outside the mounting area of the wall mount. Cut holes in the panel near the floor and behind the tv and fit them with cable pass through plates like these LINK. Run the cables through the groove with the panel off and secure them (electrical tape). Thread the ends through the holes in the panel and reinstall the panel. Voila! Hidden cables. You can plug the power cord into a surge protector that is hidden somewhere.

Obviously since your studs are horizontal (which is damn weird BTW), you want to make the channels in them as shallow as possible. Just deep enough to run the cables.

See this video if you need help figuring out how to cut a channel with a circular saw. Its not hard.

 

[destrekor]

First - you are going to need to provide some reinforcement for the wall mount for the plasma TV. I'm not sure how big of a tv we are talking here, but I had a 50" plasma once and it weighed over 100 lbs. I would install a a couple of 2x6's behind the wall (2 should fit between the studs assuming they are 16" OC) - that way the weight of the mount and tv will be distriibuted better. I definitely wouldn't want to hang 100+lbs off of a single 2x4 that is probably toe-nailed in with only 1 or two nails on each side of a significant span.

As for hiding the lines - since the wall panels are designed to be easily removed, remove one where you are planning to put the TV and use a circular saw (regular or with a dado blade) and cut a channel in the studs (and any reionforcement you add)for the power and HDMI cables. Obviously cut the channel outside the mounting area of the wall mount. Cut holes in the panel near the floor and behind the tv and fit them with cable pass through plates like these LINK. Run the cables through the groove with the panel off and secure them (electrical tape). Thread the ends through the holes in the panel and reinstall the panel. Voila! Hidden cables. You can plug the power cord into a surge protector that is hidden somewhere.

Obviously since your studs are horizontal (which is damn weird BTW), you want to make the channels in them as shallow as possible. Just deep enough to run the cables.

See this video if you need help figuring out how to cut a channel with a circular saw. Its not hard.

It's a 50" Panasonic P50ST60. Google says it's 56lbs. And the mount I got is rated for well over 100lbs.

The studs part is weird but they are almost not really studs as it's not a standard wall. It's like they are shims/furring strips, just very beefy ones. The front of unit wall has standard furring strips so it's weird they mixed it up like that.

As for running the cables in the wall, that's why I was focused on something like the PowerBridge... Isn't it against code to run a standard power cord in the wall? If I can do that then I'm not worried about a fancy kit then!

 

[destrekor]

Also in regards to cutting a channel - what's the point of that versus just running them in the space between the panel and concrete wall?


And what say you regarding drilling through the wood into concrete and not extending the wall out?

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

 

[Humpy]

56lbs hanging on the wall, not an articulating mount, I would fasten the bracket to just the flat stud, skipping the concrete. The shared wall isn't really yours to do a lot with.

Fish the wires through however you can to a shallow outlet box.

 

[destrekor]

56lbs hanging on the wall, not an articulating mount, I would fasten the bracket to just the flat stud, skipping the concrete. The shared wall isn't really yours to do a lot with.

Fish the wires through however you can to a shallow outlet box.

So put an extension cord in the wall, and say fuck electrical code?
I mean, I'm okay with that lol, and with it being a concrete wall it's far less of an issue than what the code is intended to protect.

But yeah it'll be a flat mount, well technically tilting but it can only tilt 10° up or down, and I think maybe only down.

With the shallow flat studs, you don't think the less than half depth is an issue? Surely the fasteners that the mount will come with are intended to go deeper than 1.5" or whatever a standard 2x4 is these days.

 

[BoomerD]

Furring strips are not enough to support the weight of a plasma set safely.

IF the location and spacing works for your tv mount, then drilling through the furring strip and into the concrete wall is your best option...or cutting the paneling and filling the cut out with plywood, built up to about the level of the plywood. You can use a bit of drywall mud to fill in any gaps or low spots. Then drill into the concrete wall per the instructions for the fastener you use. You might get away with 4 spots...or you might need more. I think, if it was me, I'd do at least 6...not because the fasteners shear strength isn't enough...one should be more than strong enough for the shear load...but because you're kind of "mickey-mousing" the install.

If you do the plywood cut-outs, use drywood mud to skin the plywood, ( presuming you didn't need it to fill/level the cut-outs) then spray texture and paint to match.

 

[boomerang]

I side with the OP's original plan. But only if Tapcons are available long enough to get a good bite in the concrete after passing through the strapping. If not, sleeve anchors will work just fine.

As far as hiding the wires, I don't know the depth on these but they work nicely.

http://www.cableorganizer.com/datacomm-electronics/pass-through-wall-plates/

I'm using them myself. One behind the TV and the other close to an outlet. The panels are removable per the OP so channeling to run the wires vertically should not be an issue. Remove the panel, cut the strapping as needed, replace the panel.

 

[JEDIYoda]

sheese.....super glue the TV to the wall then use duct tape to reinforce it. Problem solved!

 

[destrekor]

Furring strips are not enough to support the weight of a plasma set safely.

IF the location and spacing works for your tv mount, then drilling through the furring strip and into the concrete wall is your best option...or cutting the paneling and filling the cut out with plywood, built up to about the level of the plywood. You can use a bit of drywall mud to fill in any gaps or low spots. Then drill into the concrete wall per the instructions for the fastener you use. You might get away with 4 spots...or you might need more. I think, if it was me, I'd do at least 6...not because the fasteners shear strength isn't enough...one should be more than strong enough for the shear load...but because you're kind of "mickey-mousing" the install.

If you do the plywood cut-outs, use drywood mud to skin the plywood, ( presuming you didn't need it to fill/level the cut-outs) then spray texture and paint to match.

Well remember that this particular wall isn't using true furring strips, they are 2x4s, but with the long face turned toward the living space, unlike a typical stud placement with the short side face out.
I don't know if they can still function just the same as studs with the same load bearing support, that's what I'm really getting at.

I'm going to have to suck it up and muscle off one of the panels. They seem to be nailed in quite good, hopefully when prying one off the nails let go before any of the paneling snaps. But when I do this I should be able to see if the "studs" are fastened to the joists in the same way as a typical stud, thus rendering them able to bear some load. I feel like they gotta be, I don't think anything is currently fastened to the concrete. It looks like above the basement level sheetrock and firewall builds outward, sort of on top of the concrete if you can picture it. So it sort of looks like the house frame sits inside the concrete in the basement and then on top. (in the utility room there is a steel girder with a central support post, and the girder spans the width of the unit. (that girder might be fastened to the concrete). I could be lying, I haven't looked carefully at where wood meets concrete everywhere, and I don't think it matters one bit here lol.



But anyway, if you are recommending the filling out with plywood method, and mickey-mousing, I think I might need some kind of picture on this. I didn't follow that all to well.

 

[destrekor]

I side with the OP's original plan. But only if Tapcons are available long enough to get a good bite in the concrete after passing through the strapping. If not, sleeve anchors will work just fine.

As far as hiding the wires, I don't know the depth on these but they work nicely.

http://www.cableorganizer.com/datacomm-electronics/pass-through-wall-plates/

I'm using them myself. One behind the TV and the other close to an outlet. The panels are removable per the OP so channeling to run the wires vertically should not be an issue. Remove the panel, cut the strapping as needed, replace the panel.

So is the TV's power cord ducking behind the wall and back out? Maybe with an extension cord?

How does everyone feel about that almost surely being against electric/fire code?

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Also in regards to cutting a channel - what's the point of that versus just running them in the space between the panel and concrete wall?

And what say you regarding drilling through the wood into concrete and not extending the wall out?

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

I didn't realize there was a space between the concrete and the "studs."

Using concrete anchors is fine as long as they are long enough to get a good bite into the concrete. Obviously be careful not to punch into the next door neighbor's basement.

You definitely do not want to hand a 56 lbs tv plus the weight of the mount on furring strips alone.

As for the power cable - it is probably against code. If that is a concern your best bet would be to install an outlet behind the tv. Would probably cost as much as the fancy gizmo you are considering.

 

[dullard]

I would personally run the power up properly behind the TV. No reason to violate electrical codes when it is so easy to do it right.

The for the speakers, hdmi, cable, ethernet, etc use a keystone plate (this one has 4 ports, but they make them in almost any quantity): http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=105&cp_id=10517&cs_id=1051703&p_id=6731&seq=1&format=2


Then simply plug in the proper connectors in any combination that you need:

Cable: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10426&cs_id=1042605&p_id=6542&seq=1&format=2

HDMI: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10426&cs_id=1042609&p_id=6852&seq=1&format=2

Ethernet (get the punch down models never a toolless model): http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=105&cp_id=10519&cs_id=1051903&p_id=7303&seq=1&format=2

Speakers: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10426&cs_id=1042603&p_id=8436&seq=1&format=2

Speakers alternative: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10426&cs_id=1042601&p_id=6549&seq=1&format=2

Speakers alternative: it may be easier to use one pre-assembled (which also come in dozens of combinations for just the right speaker setup):
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=3326&seq=1&format=2

These are often more shallow and far more attractive than a cable dangling out of an empty hole. Plus, you can get them in any home-improvement store (Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, Menards, etc.) Only the ethernet ones are tricky to connect, but that is because too many people try and fail with the toolless models. You just need a shallow wall box to mount them into. Since that too will be at the home improvement store, you can test it all out to see if it fits.

 

[Scarpozzi]

For mounting my TV, I got a 3/4" thick piece of plywood and screwed it to the wall first. I didn't have time to paint it because I was in a hurry so I glued black paper to it before mounting it. It makes it less noticeable.

If you know where the studs are first, you can line your lag bolts up and mark the plywood to try to get them to go through both the plywood and the studs (best). I think this is the best way for a solid mount and in my case, it actually helped me push the TV off the wall a little extra so the metal mount wouldn't interfere with the power cord. I got a power receptacle that had a surge protector built-in and ran power to the TV.....ran another channel in the wall to house HDMI and composite cables (standard at the time). It's worked out great the past 7 years.

 

[destrekor]

Well I found what I wanted:

http://www.aimedia.co/media/spec-sheets/TVL2508K.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/Arlington-TVL2508K-1-Profile-Shallow-Drywall/dp/B00CSHE0FO

Could I get a proper outlet put behind where the TV will be for around the same price? Possible, but the problem with that route is I can't ensure it is on the same circuit ground path as all the other electronics, and more importantly, I couldn't get the TV on the same UPS/surge protector (the latter for now, the former sooner rather than later) as the other electronics.


As for the cables dangling from empty holes, well... said holes will be covered up! Plus, yeah I thought about using gangplates for that (already working on that for ethernet runs to my office and to the area where the A/V stack will sit), and ethernet is the only challenge to it all, but, I also thought that it's not really changing much in the end. I'll only be running a single HDMI cable up to the TV and then the power. And I did buy a CL2-rated HDMI cable.

And yeah, going against code doesn't feel like the right path - if there's any fire for whatever reason, even unrelated, and an investigation/inspection discovers anything out of code, that can impact insurance payout, and I can't afford to get screwed like that.

 

[destrekor]

I didn't realize there was a space between the concrete and the "studs."

No no no, sorry, there is no space between the concrete and 2x4s. But the 2x4s are spaced like studs (I haven't measured center-to-center, now that I know my stud finder was actually giving me accurate readings I'll give that a go), and so between the concrete and the wall panel, there is empty space wherever there is no 2x4. So it is like there are stud cavities, just, shallower.

 

[BoomerD]

So then...really, the only concern will be how the "studs" are affixed to the concrete wall behind them. If they're firmly attached, (more than just "glued" in place) with some kind of proper fastener at close enough intervals to prevent any sagging from the weight, mount the TV directly to/through them and the concrete wall. (presuming they're spaced in a way that works for your mount.
There are all sorts of "kits" similar to the one you linked for hiding the wires in the wall. Your big challenge there will be power. (coax can be run almost anywhere without issue)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...as2&tag=housofhepw-20&linkId=W7OGSOX5GMZR4VXF

 

[boomerang]

So is the TV's power cord ducking behind the wall and back out? Maybe with an extension cord?

How does everyone feel about that almost surely being against electric/fire code?

You are wanting to do it the right way and there is nothing wrong with that. I have no issues with erring on the side of caution with the consideration of potential problems in mind. I have the power cord run through my wall. It's the wrong way to do it, but I have done it.

I really like the low-profile low voltage box you found. That's a slick solution.

 

[Humpy]

The withdrawal design value for a single 1/4" lag screw, driven 1" into SPF lumber, is something like 250 lbs (don't have the chart in front of me). If the 2x4 isn't rotted and is attached to the structure there is absolutely no issue with supporting a 56lb load with say 4 properly installed lag screws.

There are surge protected outlets that might fit in the shallow boxes. I had assumed you would fish romex to the outlet, not an extension cord.

Not sure why a TV would need a UPS or share a ground path or whatever mumbo jumbo that's all about. If that's important to you there are hardwired UPS's that will do the job.

I wouldn't worry too much about meeting code. Typically it requires installation by someone with a license as a first step.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

You are wanting to do it the right way and there is nothing wrong with that. I have no issues with erring on the side of caution with the consideration of potential problems in mind. I have the power cord run through my wall. It's the wrong way to do it, but I have done it.

I really like the low-profile low voltage box you found. That's a slick solution.

Agreed on all fronts.

 

[destrekor]

The withdrawal design value for a single 1/4" lag screw, driven 1" into SPF lumber, is something like 250 lbs (don't have the chart in front of me). If the 2x4 isn't rotted and is attached to the structure there is absolutely no issue with supporting a 56lb load with say 4 properly installed lag screws.

There are surge protected outlets that might fit in the shallow boxes. I had assumed you would fish romex to the outlet, not an extension cord.

Not sure why a TV would need a UPS or share a ground path or whatever mumbo jumbo that's all about. If that's important to you there are hardwired UPS's that will do the job.

I wouldn't worry too much about meeting code. Typically it requires installation by someone with a license as a first step.

You can get ground loops. They aren't common, but they can cause interference in various ways. Usually not much of an issue, and it's only an HDMI cord connecting the two systems but, that's also why I do want to have a second outlet behind the TV, in case I decide to put anything there. I might still run one of the DTAs the cable co provided just so there's a backup if my CableCARD system goes screwy. Well... wait, I might or might not need to do that, can't remember if there's an open HDMI port on the receiver alongside everything else I have there. If I do have to do that then I need to run a coax line up to the back of the TV there too, and that's the most vulnerable system for ground loops.

And only reason I'd like to have the TV on the UPS is in case power goes out but the cable line is still active, then I could still get outside information like internet or emergency broadcasts. Nice to have the option of having visuals and not just radio in those events. It's a crazy what if and almost unlikely to ever be used or at least necessary, but... I obsess over those small details, if you can't tell.

 

[destrekor]

You are wanting to do it the right way and there is nothing wrong with that. I have no issues with erring on the side of caution with the consideration of potential problems in mind. I have the power cord run through my wall. It's the wrong way to do it, but I have done it.

I really like the low-profile low voltage box you found. That's a slick solution.

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, if there were no other solutions, that's exactly what I'd be doing. It's a worst-worst-case type scenario, and outside of code, it really isn't a big safety issue. BUT, if there is a way to do it smarter, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I'm prepared to go that route.