However most dock work now can be completely automated. However their union fights the use of technology every chance they get.
However most dock work now can be completely automated. However their union fights the use of technology every chance they get.Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: NoSmirk
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
WalMart gets unionized; workers lose jobs, prices go up.
Yup - Union makes out like a bandit - to heck with the poor working stiffs.
Employees don't organize unions. Bad employers do.
Unions don't fix bad employers either..
This place is infested with idiots. Start by researching waterfront workers/dock workers history on google.
Cliffs: First half of 20th century Deaths every week, 14 hour work days for pittance with a small shack on ports property. Today, safe, great pensons/401k healthcare and some of the best paid low education labor @ $140,000 a year. A freind of my Brother in HS became a dockworker and got a beach house in Newport (very expensive RE).
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity,
consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas.
Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
I'm pretty sure he's talking about jobs that exist today, not jobs that are obsolete. There's a difference between jobs disappearing due to obsolesence and automation vs. jobs disappearing due to corporate greed.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looks like Wally World will be closing in Florida.
9-30-2005 Florida Wal-Mart Workers Start to Organize
Searching for a voice in their work lives, employees of some central Florida Wal-Mart stores have formed a workers group to collectively air complaints about what they claim is shoddy treatment by the retail giant.
About 250 employees and former employees from 40 central Florida stores have joined the fledgling Wal-Mart Workers Association, spurred by what they say is a reduction of hours and schedule changes recently that may jeopardize health care benefits for some.
The members say they hope their efforts will persuade the company to listen to its people and make some changes.
The company, however, says most of its associates are happy, and characterized the effort in Florida as another attempt by the unions to get their hands in the pockets of some of its 1.3 million workers in the United States.
"It's within (employees') legal rights to do that, but this group is a wolf in sheep's clothing," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Christi Gallagher said. "This is a labor organization attempting to masquerade as something else."
Claire Middleton, 70, said she worked a full-time day job for four years taking in returns at a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Pinellas Park near St. Petersburg. The store changed her schedule in July, telling her she would have to be available from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. seven days a week if she wanted to keep getting shifts.
Her bad eyes make it difficult to drive after dark and she's afraid of losing her health care benefits if she doesn't work enough hours. She makes $8.56 an hour.
Rveva Barrett, 61, was working as the community involvement coordinator at the same store, even appearing in a national Wal-Mart commercial last year with community leaders. Her job was eliminated recently and she was told she could take another position with a $200 a month pay cut or leave.
Both women have joined the workers association, paying the $5-a-month dues.
"This is a really bad thing that's happening to all the people at Wal-Mart," Barrett said. "Unless we do something about it now, it's going to get worse."
Gallagher, the Wal-Mart spokeswoman, said the incidents are isolated.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
I'm pretty sure he's talking about jobs that exist today, not jobs that are obsolete. There's a difference between jobs disappearing due to obsolesence and automation vs. jobs disappearing due to corporate greed.
There is a port that exists in Europe that is completely automated. Cranes unload ships automatically onto trucks that automatically move them to the rail yard. The entire operation is run from a controll room by a handfull of people.
Is this automation or corperate greed?
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
I'm pretty sure he's talking about jobs that exist today, not jobs that are obsolete. There's a difference between jobs disappearing due to obsolesence and automation vs. jobs disappearing due to corporate greed.
There is a port that exists in Europe that is completely automated. Cranes unload ships automatically onto trucks that automatically move them to the rail yard. The entire operation is run from a controll room by a handfull of people.
Is this automation or corperate greed?
You said it yourself with the bolded text. The jobs simply don't exist due to automation. That's progress. Instead of jobs working directly on the dock, other jobs were created in designing, installing, and maintaining the automated equipment.
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looks like Wally World will be closing in Florida.
9-30-2005 Florida Wal-Mart Workers Start to Organize
Searching for a voice in their work lives, employees of some central Florida Wal-Mart stores have formed a workers group to collectively air complaints about what they claim is shoddy treatment by the retail giant.
About 250 employees and former employees from 40 central Florida stores have joined the fledgling Wal-Mart Workers Association, spurred by what they say is a reduction of hours and schedule changes recently that may jeopardize health care benefits for some.
The members say they hope their efforts will persuade the company to listen to its people and make some changes.
The company, however, says most of its associates are happy, and characterized the effort in Florida as another attempt by the unions to get their hands in the pockets of some of its 1.3 million workers in the United States.
"It's within (employees') legal rights to do that, but this group is a wolf in sheep's clothing," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Christi Gallagher said. "This is a labor organization attempting to masquerade as something else."
Claire Middleton, 70, said she worked a full-time day job for four years taking in returns at a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Pinellas Park near St. Petersburg. The store changed her schedule in July, telling her she would have to be available from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. seven days a week if she wanted to keep getting shifts.
Her bad eyes make it difficult to drive after dark and she's afraid of losing her health care benefits if she doesn't work enough hours. She makes $8.56 an hour.
Rveva Barrett, 61, was working as the community involvement coordinator at the same store, even appearing in a national Wal-Mart commercial last year with community leaders. Her job was eliminated recently and she was told she could take another position with a $200 a month pay cut or leave.
Both women have joined the workers association, paying the $5-a-month dues.
"This is a really bad thing that's happening to all the people at Wal-Mart," Barrett said. "Unless we do something about it now, it's going to get worse."
Gallagher, the Wal-Mart spokeswoman, said the incidents are isolated.
:thumbsup: Since you dislike walmart, why the hell do you care if walmart closes up shop and moves away? This will give the mom and pop stores the chance to come back into town. Oh yeah, mom and pop will pay the same amount, but atleast they'd be friendlier. Well they should be, shouldn't they. I don't mind paying 1 1/2 times more for the same sh1t I'd buy at walmart, but how about those greedy little welfare cases. Do you think they'll mind?
Originally posted by: charrison
However most dock work now can be completely automated. However their union fights the use of technology every chance they get.Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: NoSmirk
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
WalMart gets unionized; workers lose jobs, prices go up.
Yup - Union makes out like a bandit - to heck with the poor working stiffs.
Employees don't organize unions. Bad employers do.
Unions don't fix bad employers either..
This place is infested with idiots. Start by researching waterfront workers/dock workers history on google.
Cliffs: First half of 20th century Deaths every week, 14 hour work days for pittance with a small shack on ports property. Today, safe, great pensons/401k healthcare and some of the best paid low education labor @ $140,000 a year. A freind of my Brother in HS became a dockworker and got a beach house in Newport (very expensive RE).
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
I'm pretty sure he's talking about jobs that exist today, not jobs that are obsolete. There's a difference between jobs disappearing due to obsolesence and automation vs. jobs disappearing due to corporate greed.
There is a port that exists in Europe that is completely automated. Cranes unload ships automatically onto trucks that automatically move them to the rail yard. The entire operation is run from a controll room by a handfull of people.
Is this automation or corperate greed?
You said it yourself with the bolded text. The jobs simply don't exist due to automation. That's progress. Instead of jobs working directly on the dock, other jobs were created in designing, installing, and maintaining the automated equipment.
Your absolutly right. Why should capital be wasted on any position when it could be done in a better manner. Jobs are created as others are destroyed, reguardless for the reason they were destroyed.
Originally posted by: filterxg
I'm no union fan. They're killing american manufacturing, because they haven't found a home in the new global economy. Unionizing Walmart isn't the answer. There are however at least one place unions can do a lot of good. Unionizing China, which I think is the long term answer to China's human rights, communism, and too low prices. Of course unions are illegal in China, and whispering the word might lead to another T-Square...they are that scared of them.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: filterxg
I'm no union fan. They're killing american manufacturing, because they haven't found a home in the new global economy. Unionizing Walmart isn't the answer. There are however at least one place unions can do a lot of good. Unionizing China, which I think is the long term answer to China's human rights, communism, and too low prices. Of course unions are illegal in China, and whispering the word might lead to another T-Square...they are that scared of them.
Why do you feel it is OK to unionize China but hands off the U.S.???
The U.S. now in many ways treats it's citizens worse than China.
We have a higher regard for many other Country's for their resources that we need than we do for our own soil and citizens.
Simply look at Iraq and Gulf Coast.
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: filterxg
I'm no union fan. They're killing american manufacturing, because they haven't found a home in the new global economy. Unionizing Walmart isn't the answer. There are however at least one place unions can do a lot of good. Unionizing China, which I think is the long term answer to China's human rights, communism, and too low prices. Of course unions are illegal in China, and whispering the word might lead to another T-Square...they are that scared of them.
Why do you feel it is OK to unionize China but hands off the U.S.???
The U.S. now in many ways treats it's citizens worse than China.
We have a higher regard for many other Country's for their resources that we need than we do for our own soil and citizens.
Simply look at Iraq and Gulf Coast.
Care to show some proof of your partisan bs?
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: filterxg
I'm no union fan. They're killing american manufacturing, because they haven't found a home in the new global economy. Unionizing Walmart isn't the answer. There are however at least one place unions can do a lot of good. Unionizing China, which I think is the long term answer to China's human rights, communism, and too low prices. Of course unions are illegal in China, and whispering the word might lead to another T-Square...they are that scared of them.
Why do you feel it is OK to unionize China but hands off the U.S.???
The U.S. now in many ways treats it's citizens worse than China.
We have a higher regard for many other Country's for their resources that we need than we do for our own soil and citizens.
Simply look at Iraq and Gulf Coast.
Care to show some proof of your partisan bs?
Simply look in the mirror.
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: racebannon
Yes, damn them for protecting American jobs.
And before you start bitching about how unions ruin productivity, consider the flagrant excess of a corporate culture that receives tax breaks from the US taxpayers, reaps income from selling its products to our consumer market, and then sends all the production jobs overseas. Corporations are gutting America like a dead fish.
Lets hear it for fools who think the economic problems with American are due to heavy-handled labor unions, who represent a measily 8% of the private sector workforce.
Since when should jobs be protected. With that logic we would still be employing buggy whip makers
I'm pretty sure he's talking about jobs that exist today, not jobs that are obsolete. There's a difference between jobs disappearing due to obsolesence and automation vs. jobs disappearing due to corporate greed.
There is a port that exists in Europe that is completely automated. Cranes unload ships automatically onto trucks that automatically move them to the rail yard. The entire operation is run from a controll room by a handfull of people.
Is this automation or corperate greed?
You said it yourself with the bolded text. The jobs simply don't exist due to automation. That's progress. Instead of jobs working directly on the dock, other jobs were created in designing, installing, and maintaining the automated equipment.
Your absolutly right. Why should capital be wasted on any position when it could be done in a better manner. Jobs are created as others are destroyed, reguardless for the reason they were destroyed.
I know you're trying to apply this to offshoring and outsourcing but I don't agree. When a job is moved overseas, it is simply moved. The job is still being done, just by cheaper labor in cheaper conditions. You can show me anecdotal evidence to show that having the work done by cheaper labor frees up capital to create new jobs here in America, but I suspect that the jobs are just gone.
Originally posted by: charrison
There was a report a while back that for every dollar that went to outsourcing that a dollar and change came back. It jobs may go to india, but they require software, hardware and even air conditions built here.
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: charrison
There was a report a while back that for every dollar that went to outsourcing that a dollar and change came back. It jobs may go to india, but they require software, hardware and even air conditions built here.
That must have been one faulty report. Any software required can be written in India. Many US companies depend on the fact that India has huge cadres of highly skilled programmers willing to work for less than similary trained individuals make in the US. Also, if this is true, why do we have a trade deficit with India? If more money comes back we would have a trade surplus.
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Originally posted by: charrison
There was a report a while back that for every dollar that went to outsourcing that a dollar and change came back. It jobs may go to india, but they require software, hardware and even air conditions built here.
That must have been one faulty report. Any software required can be written in India. Many US companies depend on the fact that India has huge cadres of highly skilled programmers willing to work for less than similarly trained individuals make in the US. Also, if this is true, why do we have a trade deficit with India? If more money comes back we would have a trade surplus.
It's not faulty in one way...every dollar spent on outsourcing is replaced by many going back to the profits of those that did the outsourcing. So in a way, he's right.
However, I feel that report, assuming that for every dollar outsourced, one or more is spent buying US goods might just be wrong. Just look at the trade deficit for an answer to that one, IMO>
Originally posted by: jimkyser
There is a very big difference between asserting that spending $1 in India brings in the same income that spending say $1+ in the US does vs. spending $1 in India drives $1+ in exports to India as the poster alluded. If the latter is what the report tries to state, it's quite faulty.