wanted: motherboard for E6600

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CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Originally posted by: Skott
I saw that 16x speed in my manual and didnt look at the next section down where it says 8x each. My bad and i do apologize. if i'm not mistaken though they work individually as 8x but work out as 16x overall. If I understand the explanation of it correctly. But the thing is though tests have proven that the only time you are going to see 16x/32x performing better than 8x/16x is in resolutions over 1600x1200. Testing showed little to no gain at 1600x1200 or less resolutions. And since I personally dont plan to use a LCD higher than 1680x1050 I'm not going to worry about it nor should anyone else IMO. The 8x/16x architecture hasnt even been fully maxxed out yet. So 16x/32x isnt really all that much as of yet except for those with really really big monitors(24"+). To be honest I dont think the manufacturers are all that concerned about 16x/32x acchitecture yet anyway. If they were all new mobos with dual cards would have 16x/32x pcie slots. This current rig will only have one card in it anyway so its going to run 16x in single card mode.
Ahh, it's coming together in my mind now, thanks for the thorough explanation, Skott. Although, I am one of those users who will be gaming on a 24" LCD @ 1920x1200. So I have some decisions to make about my new build:

1. I can purchase a single video card for now, and a decent (non-dual PCIe) mobo, and then add the additional video card and upgrade the mobo once they finally release a 16x/32x version. It just means over the next couple months I'll have less than top-notch performance, plus I'll be spending more money as I'll be buying 2 motherboards.

2. Or I can just go ahead and get the P5W DH Deluxe and the second video card now, and hope that the 8x/16x architecture is fast enough for my gaming needs/resolution.

I need to spend some more time reading up on gaming benchmarks, particularly for Oblivion since that will be my primary game for a long time.

Thanks again, Skott and cmdrdredd!

 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Yeah, the LCDs changed how we determine graphic cards IMO. Before the mobo itself didnt matter so much. Just keep getting faster cards. Now with LCD and dual card setups you have to take more time to decide what it is you are going to need. I recently switched to a 20" LCD. 1680x1050. I'm a gamer but I also surf the net. The text as it is now is about as small as I can read. I'm an older guy so eyesight isnt 20/20 anymore. I recently started to wear reading glasses. ::chuckle:: So for me I found my limit I think. Which doesnt necessarily displease me. Kinda mkes thnigs easier to decide now because i know my visual limits. And games do have text in them as well. Lot of games do in fact. Now if I was only going to watch movies on the LCD then I'd certainly opt for one of those 24" or bigger model LCDs. Nice thing about knowing my limit is that I realize i dont have to have a dual card setup like I originally thought I'd have to do. That saves me some bucks. Now for those of you that are going to bigger LCDs then yeah, its looking like you need them dual card setups for gaming.

As for a dual card setup on the P5W DH I would think two 1900xt cards would be pretty awesome. They say the 1900XTX runs at XT speed so dont bother getting the XTX. Just get 2x1900XT and all is golden. The THG VGA chart shows two 1900s beating out two 7900GTXs in a good many games but I'm not sure i trust those THG numbers in their charts. To me something seems off but I cant prove it. So I'm a little leary of saying anyone should use it as a concrete guide. SLI is a more stable acrhitecture IMO than CF. Anyway, now they got that new x1950 card but I havent paid much attention to it so not sure if its good choice for CrossFire or not. Something I need to look into but right now kinda focuessed on OCing what I have currently.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
You're exactly right about LCD's changing (or making more complicated) our decision making process when upgrading. The main reason for that is due to the technology of LCD's. The pixels in them are painfully obvious, opposed to the 'smoother' or more 'blurred' pixel definition on a CRT. That's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO. I currently have a 17" Sony LCD @ 1280x1024. I prefer to have ClearType turned OFF in Windows because the crisp, pixel-defined text is easier on my eyes. I really hate that anti-alias text look when in regular 'desktop' mode (i.e. web surfing, email, generic Windows tasks, etc). However, when gaming, I believe this is why anti-aliasing is more desirable on an LCD. In a gaming context, you don't want to see pixels (or 'jaggies'), but instead want to see a smooth, yet crisp, appearance. Unfortunately, AA really taxes even high-end graphics cards. On CRT's, the pixels aren't as clearly defined, so AA isn't as needed (it's still a subjective question, however).

Also, there's something that isn't talked about much (if at all) regarding LCD's and that's dot pitch (or pixel pitch). It matters more now on an LCD than it does/did for CRT's because, as I mentioned before, LCD pixels are VERY clearly defined and seen. This is something that may actually help you out in terms of making text easier to read for your 'mature' eyes

Take, for instance, your LCD (20" widescreen with a native resolution of 1680x1050). In order to fit that number of pixels into that physical screen size, each pixel is actually 0.285mm. Now, compare that to another 20" LCD (also a widescreen), but with a lower native resolution (1400x1050) and its pixels are each 0.292mm in size. So, you have the same physical size screen (20") in the same proportions (widescreen/16:9), but the pixels within the screen of each one are a different size. Another interesting comparison is the 17" vs. 19" LCD. Many people think that a 19" LCD is 'better' because it's bigger. However, most (if not all) 17" and 19" LCD's have the SAME native resolution (1280x1024). This means, in terms of the pixel pitch, that the 19" simply has larger pixels than the 17" (0.294mm > 0.264mm). So for someone who prefers to have their text and overall screen readability larger (i.e. you), the 19" is the 'better' monitor. For someone who simply wants more 'screen real estate' (literally I mean more pixels on the screen so that the net result is being able to 'see more' of your Windows desktop), then there's NO difference between the two monitors at all! This is why I bought a 17" instead of a 19" 3 years ago. I really wanted a native resolution of 1600x1200, but those LCD's were way out of my budget especially 'way back then.' So I opted for the 17" since it was the most economical decision and didn't offer me any less in terms of 'performance.' (I am, afterall, a resolution-monger! I'm all about having more pixels )

Anyway, that's just something to keep in mind in case your current monitor ends up getting too hard on the eyes. BTW, my new Dell 24" (native resolution of 1920x1200) has a pixel pitch of 0.27mm, definitely smaller pixels than your 20" but larger ones than my current 17" LCD! I always find the pixel-pitch and native resolution stats to be interesting for some reason. Take care!
 

imported_mdc

Junior Member
Sep 6, 2006
14
0
0
Originally posted by: CreepieDeCrapper
What kind of temps are you riding btw? Just curious because mdc's do seem a bit higher than what I'd like to get (he's using the Arctic Freezer 7).

I finally got around to running the CPU at spec. The BIOS reported a temp of 38° C and the software in Windows reported 40-43°C when running at 2.4Ghz w/100% CPU utilization
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Sounds like you were at max when running 3.6GHz, Mdc. To run higher overclock would require better cooling. Probably watercooling but I dont know. Maybe run it at 3.4 or 3.5 instead for aircooling 24/7?
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Originally posted by: CreepieDeCrapper
You're exactly right about LCD's changing (or making more complicated) our decision making process when upgrading. The main reason for that is due to the technology of LCD's. The pixels in them are painfully obvious, opposed to the 'smoother' or more 'blurred' pixel definition on a CRT. That's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO. I currently have a 17" Sony LCD @ 1280x1024. I prefer to have ClearType turned OFF in Windows because the crisp, pixel-defined text is easier on my eyes. I really hate that anti-alias text look when in regular 'desktop' mode (i.e. web surfing, email, generic Windows tasks, etc). However, when gaming, I believe this is why anti-aliasing is more desirable on an LCD. In a gaming context, you don't want to see pixels (or 'jaggies'), but instead want to see a smooth, yet crisp, appearance. Unfortunately, AA really taxes even high-end graphics cards. On CRT's, the pixels aren't as clearly defined, so AA isn't as needed (it's still a subjective question, however).

Also, there's something that isn't talked about much (if at all) regarding LCD's and that's dot pitch (or pixel pitch). It matters more now on an LCD than it does/did for CRT's because, as I mentioned before, LCD pixels are VERY clearly defined and seen. This is something that may actually help you out in terms of making text easier to read for your 'mature' eyes

Take, for instance, your LCD (20" widescreen with a native resolution of 1680x1050). In order to fit that number of pixels into that physical screen size, each pixel is actually 0.285mm. Now, compare that to another 20" LCD (also a widescreen), but with a lower native resolution (1400x1050) and its pixels are each 0.292mm in size. So, you have the same physical size screen (20") in the same proportions (widescreen/16:9), but the pixels within the screen of each one are a different size. Another interesting comparison is the 17" vs. 19" LCD. Many people think that a 19" LCD is 'better' because it's bigger. However, most (if not all) 17" and 19" LCD's have the SAME native resolution (1280x1024). This means, in terms of the pixel pitch, that the 19" simply has larger pixels than the 17" (0.294mm > 0.264mm). So for someone who prefers to have their text and overall screen readability larger (i.e. you), the 19" is the 'better' monitor. For someone who simply wants more 'screen real estate' (literally I mean more pixels on the screen so that the net result is being able to 'see more' of your Windows desktop), then there's NO difference between the two monitors at all! This is why I bought a 17" instead of a 19" 3 years ago. I really wanted a native resolution of 1600x1200, but those LCD's were way out of my budget especially 'way back then.' So I opted for the 17" since it was the most economical decision and didn't offer me any less in terms of 'performance.' (I am, afterall, a resolution-monger! I'm all about having more pixels )

Anyway, that's just something to keep in mind in case your current monitor ends up getting too hard on the eyes. BTW, my new Dell 24" (native resolution of 1920x1200) has a pixel pitch of 0.27mm, definitely smaller pixels than your 20" but larger ones than my current 17" LCD! I always find the pixel-pitch and native resolution stats to be interesting for some reason. Take care!



I'll have to keep that in mind, CDC. Keep us updated on your decision. I'm looking forward to hear what you build.
 

imported_mdc

Junior Member
Sep 6, 2006
14
0
0
Originally posted by: Skott
Sounds like you were at max when running 3.6GHz, Mdc. To run higher overclock would require better cooling. Probably watercooling but I dont know. Maybe run it at 3.4 or 3.5 instead for aircooling 24/7?

It's been 100% stable at 3.6Ghz 24/7 for two weeks despite the temperature. The heatsink, or even the CPU's heat spreader doesn't feel excessively warm to the touch. But, you may be right about requiring better cooling to find out what the maximum overclock might be.
 

Sumaleth

Junior Member
Sep 14, 2006
4
0
0
Install the new system today. C2D E6600 with ASUS P5B motherboard and 2x 1GB Kingston "Value" RAM.

Everything went smoothly, with just a minor hickup during BIOS update.

The BIOS needed to be updated, at the end of the installation process, to remove an error that appeared briefly during boot. First tried updating using the in-Windows tool and using the "from internet" option, but it didn't seem to work. So the BIOS file was downloaded separately, put onto a USB stick, and installed via a tool that was accessed through the BIOS interface.

Everything since then has gone well.

Though I didn't remember about partitions until the install process was completely finished and I'd spent half the day reinstalling all my old software and configuring it back to taste. And now it looks like I either fork out cash for the software to divide it (350GB SATA II) up, or live with everything on one partition.

Happy with the hardware choices so far though.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Originally posted by: mdc
Originally posted by: CreepieDeCrapper
What kind of temps are you riding btw? Just curious because mdc's do seem a bit higher than what I'd like to get (he's using the Arctic Freezer 7).

I finally got around to running the CPU at spec. The BIOS reported a temp of 38° C and the software in Windows reported 40-43°C when running at 2.4Ghz w/100% CPU utilization
Thanks for the follow-up on that question, mdc. Those sound like great temps (to my oft-newbie brain at least). My parts are arriving one by one so I'm excited for build-day over here
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Originally posted by: Skott
I'll have to keep that in mind, CDC. Keep us updated on your decision. I'm looking forward to hear what you build.
Ok, I've been busy the last couple of days (and still am) but I can't forget my helpful friends at AT so here's the final component selection for my new build. BTW, all parts are ordered and are either sitting in boxes in my kitchen or are in transit. IOW, criticizing my decisions at this point is like telling new parents that the name they picked out for their first-born is no good... while they're holding the baby in their hands!

Just kidding, feel free to expose all my bad ideas

Intel C2D E6400
Arctic Freezer Pro 7
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
2gb Team Xtreem/Group DDR2 800 PC6400 (4-4-4-10)
Seagate 7200.10 320gb
Samsung DVD/CD RW
Sapphire x1900xt
Asus x1900 CF Edition (w/free USB controller)
Seasonic S12 600w v3.0
Antec P180b
Dell 24" (rev. A02)
Arctice Silver Ceramique thermal compound
Belkin anti-static wriststrap
Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
Logitech G5 (I highly recommend the custom weights)

Is that it? My wife sure hopes so, she would like to go shopping again!


 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Looks good to me, CDC. Just be sure to update the mobo bios soon as you can. I hear the 1401 & 1402 is very mature now. Also before installing the mobo consider pulling those caps off the heatsink thingies. I hear it really helps on the temps. I believe over on the XS site they got a pic or two showing what and how to do it. I forget what page of that long thread its on though. I did the 25% OC that Phile suggested I start with in the Official P5W DH mobo thread. Page 27 I think it is. You may want to start with it too. Its pretty safe and easy once you understand how it works. Keep us updated on the build!
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Thanks for the tips, Skott. I requested TankGuys to send the latest revision of the mobo (even paid extra for it!). So hopefully they follow through with that. Either way, I'm sure a BIOS update will be in order. I was hoping to build by Saturday but it looks like my mobo and memory won't arrive until Monday. So it's another week on my crummy laptop for me. I'll report back once I have more info (and questions).
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
They charged you extra? And what exactly do they do for this extra fee? I'm curious because I've never heard of any pc vendor do this although I have heard they'll let a customer know which stepping of a proc they have in stock.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
I'm sure it was a waste of $7.50 but I saw it as an option and I consider it an 'impulse buy.' Yeah, that's it! Anyway, here's the link, maybe you can make more sense of the dropdown option:

http://www.tankguys.biz/deluxe-socket-c...sCsid=70e22073825e485299b4084590f915fa

EDIT: And btw, I don't think they're charging for the service of sending the new revision as much as they're discounting you if you simply 'don't care' and let them send you one of the boards from the 'bottom of the pack' so to speak.
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
Hmmm... I guess their saying they got some older ones too they'll sell you if you dont pay extra? Now if it all comes from the same batch then they should all be the same shouldnt they? Or does a order come in with different versions mixed in? Maybe they post an answer in this thread? I know they read some of the threads on this site. Kinda curious the 'how' of it. At least the prices generally speaking have come down some. Lot of places selling them for $279 a week or two ago.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Yea I paid $265 out-the-door for mine. That includes the shipping and extra $7.50 that only guarantees 'god knows what.' The mobo and memory are due to arrive on Saturday so I'll look into it and report back my findings. Maybe my extra $7.50 means they threw in a 6-pack for good measure! I could only be so lucky...
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Seasonic S12 600w PSU arrived today. Just one more box of goodies before I can build (mobo & memory). It's scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I plan to take photos and post a little slideshow of my build as well so stay tuned if you're interested.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
Ok, memory and mobo are now in (as of Saturday)! Here's some information on my mobo, is this the 'most recent' revision?

Part #: 90-MBB2X1-G0AAY
Serial #: 68M0AG175438
 

FSH42NA

Senior member
Dec 26, 2002
587
0
71
It should be the most recent. Got mine from Tankguys and it was a 68MOAG along with bios 801. Haven't had any time to set it yet, but it should be fine. However, the only real way to tell if its the new and improved version is to check the bios to see if you have the option of going up 1.85 on the MCH voltage. People smarter and sharper than me, please chime to correct me if I'm wrong
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
so, yet another person going with the coin toss because there are no reliable mobos out yet?

as things look now i will wait for the E version, probably....
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
I would think by now the supply chain has these mobos with something higher than 0801 BIOS. Then again ASUS may not be keeping them updated and just letting the buyer do it via flash. Which kinda sucks IMO if they are.
 

CreepieDeCrapper

Senior member
May 22, 2006
295
0
0
I feel like a total newb-head right now. Where exactly do I determine my BIOS version? When I boot and go into the BIOS menu the version number is 1305, but this doesn't seem to coincide with the numbers being tossed around.
 
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