There's a distinct difference between those that think themselves as having those traits and those that have those traits.
I wonder which sort leans toward which side of the political spectrum...
There's a distinct difference between those that think themselves as having those traits and those that have those traits.It's pretty obvious that a lot of you guys think of yourselves as smarter than the average bear: More informed, more rational, more forward-thinking. Is that not what enlightened means to you?
There's a distinct difference between those that think themselves as having those traits and those that have those traits.
I wonder which sort leans toward which side of the political spectrum...
I know there are plenty of ill-informed voters on both sides. Highly educated people have been turning away from the Republican party not because they don't hold some conservative views, but because the religious right has, incrementally since the 80's, completed a total takeover of the party, ensuring it will stay mired in backwards social views.There's a distinct difference between those that think themselves as having those traits and those that have those traits.
I wonder which sort leans toward which side of the political spectrum...
It's pretty obvious that a lot of you guys think of yourselves as smarter than the average bear: More informed, more rational, more forward-thinking. Is that not what enlightened means to you?
Even someone with a fairly thick hide is going to get tired of being ganged up on after a while. The kind of participant that can speak intelligently on issues is generally also the type that won't tolerate constant abuse. I finally accepted the fact that it's mostly futile to try and discuss ideological differences online, which is really too bad; the semblance of anonymity can make it easier to open up about things that are hard to talk about irl, but as we see so often, it also frees people to unleash the worst of themselves as well.
Meh, his argument is akin to the "being intolerant of intolerance is bigotry, too!"Ganged up on? Being called out on lies, hypocrisy, and untruths, is not something I would consider being ganged up on. I have no idea how you'd expect any rational conversation to take place when facts and reality can't be agreed upon. You seem to think people should be respected when they refuse to acknowledge facts. Maybe human interaction isn't something you should engage in.
You have a style that works for you, for sure, but I don't particularly care for the viciousness that you regularly display. I don't have a problem with human interaction, though it strikes me that you might, if your behavior here is any indication of your demeanor irl. The notion implicit in your comment, that you crown yourself the arbiter of what is rational, factual, or real, is somewhat amusing, though.Ganged up on? Being called out on lies, hypocrisy, and untruths, is not something I would consider being ganged up on. I have no idea how you'd expect any rational conversation to take place when facts and reality can't be agreed upon. You seem to think people should be respected when they refuse to acknowledge facts. Maybe human interaction isn't something you should engage in.
That's always been a favorite. It's not intolerant to be intolerant of the intolerant, and you are the judge of what tolerance is, right? The real victim is actual discussion of issues, lauding the creation of an environment hostile to dissenting views only hurts you, in the long run.Meh, his argument is akin to the "being intolerant of intolerance is bigotry, too!"
I don't feel one ounce of pity for the people that come to this forum with the full intention of getting a negative reaction neither do I feel bad about myself on the occasions I choose to participate... it gives me the opportunity to put in to words exactly how I feel about any given subject. I am sorry that you see this forum as a place where people gang up on some poor schmuck. That's not how I see it. From what I've seen,bbq that's exactly what these poor little dudes are looking for. I would bet money they aren't in a mind to debate with any sort of sophistication. They are looking to vent their rage... sometimes so am I. Again, I think it unlikely you'll find a fully unbiased forum that would suit your preference. Also unlikely to find this in your personal life as well. However and I love this idea though I'd never do it (lack of motivation) you could start a debate club with very strict rules of conduct.Even someone with a fairly thick hide is going to get tired of being ganged up on after a while. The kind of participant that can speak intelligently on issues is generally also the type that won't tolerate constant abuse. I finally accepted the fact that it's mostly futile to try and discuss ideological differences online, which is really too bad; the semblance of anonymity can make it easier to open up about things that are hard to talk about irl, but as we see so often, it also frees people to unleash the worst of themselves as well.
QED.That's always been a favorite. It's not intolerant to be intolerant of the intolerant, and you are the judge of what tolerance is, right? The real victim is actual discussion of issues, lauding the creation of an environment hostile to dissenting views only hurts you, in the long run.
You have a style that works for you, for sure, but I don't particularly care for the viciousness that you regularly display. I don't have a problem with human interaction, though it strikes me that you might, if your behavior here is any indication of your demeanor irl. The notion implicit in your comment, that you crown yourself the arbiter of what is rational, factual, or real, is somewhat amusing, though.
Hey, you are free to skip right over my comments if you don't like them. I think he deserved the substance of what he got, that's not my issue.No one owns you anything and you're free to leave or go to the Debate Club forum. Go consul some of these poor souls that time and time again lie, distort and dissemble, as pcgeek has done so often... He stuck his foot in his mouth and was called on it.
It's up to him to come back and own up.
End of story, save for your many concerned tears...
o'woe, o'woe!
That's always been a favorite. It's not intolerant to be intolerant of the intolerant, and you are the judge of what tolerance is, right? The real victim is actual discussion of issues, lauding the creation of an environment hostile to dissenting views only hurts you, in the long run.
If I thought the first was encouraged, I wouldn't be here sticking my neck out. It seems like a collective blind spot you guys have. There are unintended consequences that arise from the incessant disparagement of ideological opponents that probably ought not matter to me at all, but I am fond of these forums in general and for some crazy reason decided to speak up about it today.There is a stark contrast between dissenting views and flat out deliberate dishonesty. The first should certainly be encouraged, the second should be not tolerated. This thread is a perfect example of the second.
If I thought the first was encouraged, I wouldn't be here sticking my neck out. It seems like a collective blind spot you guys have. There are unintended consequences that arise from the incessant disparagement of ideological opponents that probably ought not matter to me at all, but I am fond of these forums in general and for some crazy reason decided to speak up about it today.
Kind of a no win for me there, if I don't, you can point to that as evidence my claim is baseless, if I do, I will have to wade through a lot of stuff that I don't care about, and then have to defend every instance I find.Can you give me an example of a thread that illustrates your point? Do you think this thread had more potential than it did?
If I thought the first was encouraged, I wouldn't be here sticking my neck out. It seems like a collective blind spot you guys have. There are unintended consequences that arise from the incessant disparagement of ideological opponents that probably ought not matter to me at all, but I am fond of these forums in general and for some crazy reason decided to speak up about it today.
Kind of a no win for me there, if I don't, you can point to that as evidence my claim is baseless, if I do, I will have to wade through a lot of stuff that I don't care about, and then have to defend every instance I find.
How about just accept it as my opinion, as something I have observed on numerous occasions as basically an outsider? If you haven't found me to be intentionally dishonest or downright stupid, my opinion ought to be worth something, at least.
I'd really rather let it go at this point. Maybe I am wrong.
If I thought the first was encouraged, I wouldn't be here sticking my neck out. It seems like a collective blind spot you guys have. There are unintended consequences that arise from the incessant disparagement of ideological opponents that probably ought not matter to me at all, but I am fond of these forums in general and for some crazy reason decided to speak up about it today.
@Jhhnn , @ivwshane , and @Younigue , thanks for your replies. I'll continue to observe and revisit my opinion on this. I'll admit that part of my motivation for speaking out is due to the disquiet at the massive amounts of hate that everyone, not just here but across the country, seems to be directing as their fellow countrymen. I am still an American foremost, and I find myself occasionally gripped with a sense of dread about where this is all going. I don't see it ending well.
Also, the definition of 'enlightened' mattersThere's a distinct difference between those that think themselves as having those traits and those that have those traits.
I wonder which sort leans toward which side of the political spectrum...