War brewing in Gaza

[Lemon law]

At last, ThePresence asks the right question---What would you have Israel do?
Sit back and do nothing?

Maybe its time for Israel to make a genuine effort to redress previous wrongs and make some sort of peace. And instead they hide behind their military superiority while they build the hatreds ever higher.

In 1948 the UN gave Israel the mandate to rule BOTH the indigenous Palestinians and Jews. On that basis they could have built a stable nation, instead they choose to be a government that benefited only the jews, and with the politics of pigs, they disenfranchised the Palestinians on the basis of birth, religion, and ancestry.

The trend lines are clear, this is not the infantata of the 1990's where protesters had nothing but rocks and bottles to fight back with. If you think its bad now, wait another decade. The right to return still drives this and
there are plenty of wealthy Arabs ready willing and able to fund bigger and better weapons.

A viable Palestinian State made up of parts of the land acquired in the 1967 war is and remains the best hope to solve this peacefully. And Israel does nothing but torpedo any such hopes with a refusal to even share what they have stolen. And if Israel will not share, they will likely end up with nothing in the longer sweep of history.

 

[FoBoT]

cut their power off again/no more fuel shipments

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
At last, ThePresence asks the right question---What would you have Israel do?
Sit back and do nothing?

In 1948 the UN gave Israel the mandate to rule BOTH the indigenous Palestinians and Jews. On that basis they could have built a stable nation, instead they choose to be a government that benefited only the jews, and with the politics of pigs, they disenfranchised the Palestinians on the basis of birth, religion, and ancestry.

Kinda tough to build a stable nation when you get invaded by 5 Arab countries the day after the UN Resolution.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, the Gaza disengagement really worked out well, didn't it? 51 rockets have hit the Israeli town of Sderot since Thursday. 8 longer range rockets have hit the city of Ashkelon. In total, over 90 rockets have hit Israel since Wednsday. Israel has been responding with limited airstrikes targeting rocket launching cells, but it has not been very effective. Israel is finally waking up and massing tanks and artillery on the Gaza border. However, this will be no simple operation. Going into Gaza today is not what it used to be. Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power. This will be all-out war, and they are ready for it. Israel should not take them lightly, and I don't think they will. It's time for Israel to say screw world opinion and protect it's citizens. It's quite obvious that Hamas is not interested in peace, and is bringing death and destruction into the backyards of the Gaza strip. It boggles the mind how Israeli politicians can still be discussing additional concessions of territory in light on the enormous blunder of pulling out of Gaza. WTG Sharon.

Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power.
Factually incorrect. Hamas did not seize power. They were the legitimately elected government of the Palestine state. The West Bank is ruled by a government that "seized power"

You are reading too much into a word. I am referring to when they overthrew the PA in Gaza.

Huh? It was the PA that overthrew Hama.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, the Gaza disengagement really worked out well, didn't it? 51 rockets have hit the Israeli town of Sderot since Thursday. 8 longer range rockets have hit the city of Ashkelon. In total, over 90 rockets have hit Israel since Wednsday. Israel has been responding with limited airstrikes targeting rocket launching cells, but it has not been very effective. Israel is finally waking up and massing tanks and artillery on the Gaza border. However, this will be no simple operation. Going into Gaza today is not what it used to be. Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power. This will be all-out war, and they are ready for it. Israel should not take them lightly, and I don't think they will. It's time for Israel to say screw world opinion and protect it's citizens. It's quite obvious that Hamas is not interested in peace, and is bringing death and destruction into the backyards of the Gaza strip. It boggles the mind how Israeli politicians can still be discussing additional concessions of territory in light on the enormous blunder of pulling out of Gaza. WTG Sharon.

Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power.
Factually incorrect. Hamas did not seize power. They were the legitimately elected government of the Palestine state. The West Bank is ruled by a government that "seized power"

You are reading too much into a word. I am referring to when they overthrew the PA in Gaza.

Huh? It was the PA that overthrew Hama.

Hamas overthrew Fatah in Gaza. I used the word seized to refer to that event.
Remember?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Israel exists and is not going anywhere (unless you believe Ahmadinejad).
Israel, like any other country has a fundamental duty to protect it's citizens.
Rockets are falling on Israeli towns.
What would you have Israel do?
Sit back and do nothing?

I would have Israel stop doing what they have been doing for decades, colonizing Palestine. As long as people are loosing their homeland, some will be inspired to retaliate against that injustice with suicide bombings and homemade rockets they use now, along with increasingly more sophisticated forms of attack. Permeate boarders have to be established before the conflict can be resolved, and until the Israeli government and individuals like yourselves accept that, you are endangering Israelis rather than protecting them.

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, the Gaza disengagement really worked out well, didn't it? 51 rockets have hit the Israeli town of Sderot since Thursday. 8 longer range rockets have hit the city of Ashkelon. In total, over 90 rockets have hit Israel since Wednsday. Israel has been responding with limited airstrikes targeting rocket launching cells, but it has not been very effective. Israel is finally waking up and massing tanks and artillery on the Gaza border. However, this will be no simple operation. Going into Gaza today is not what it used to be. Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power. This will be all-out war, and they are ready for it. Israel should not take them lightly, and I don't think they will. It's time for Israel to say screw world opinion and protect it's citizens. It's quite obvious that Hamas is not interested in peace, and is bringing death and destruction into the backyards of the Gaza strip. It boggles the mind how Israeli politicians can still be discussing additional concessions of territory in light on the enormous blunder of pulling out of Gaza. WTG Sharon.

Hamas has been arming and training for this situation even before they seized power.
Factually incorrect. Hamas did not seize power. They were the legitimately elected government of the Palestine state. The West Bank is ruled by a government that "seized power"

You are reading too much into a word. I am referring to when they overthrew the PA in Gaza.

Huh? It was the PA that overthrew Hama.

Hamas overthrew Fatah in Gaza. I used the word seized to refer to that event.
Remember?

Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

 

[Noobtastic]

Good.

Israel should have done something along time ago. The citizen of Sderot deserve better.

Any modern country would respond with a thousand bombs.



Appreciate Israeli discretion.

 

[mrCide]

Matan Vilnai said Palestinians risked a "shoah", the Hebrew word for a big disaster - and for the Nazi Holocaust.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7270650.stm

Nice. Stop [insert term for attacks/retaliation] or risk genocide. GG.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: mrCide

Matan Vilnai said Palestinians risked a "shoah", the Hebrew word for a big disaster - and for the Nazi Holocaust.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7270650.stm

Nice. Stop [insert term for attacks/retaliation] or risk genocide. GG.

Israel has given Hamas plenty of chances of reform.

Hell, Israel supplies Gaza with almost 80% of their resources. You think the Palestinians would have done the same?

When Hamas changes their agenda from destroying Israel and not recognizing the state to policing their society and end relations with Syria and Iran, MAYBE...MAYBE some sort of cease fire could be established.

But what the western world expects is asinine.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Look, we can argue the history for pages and pages (and we have in the past).
Regardless of whatever version of history you wish to believe, the bottom line is this.

Israel exists and is not going anywhere (unless you believe Ahmadinejad).
Israel, like any other country has a fundamental duty to protect it's citizens.
Rockets are falling on Israeli towns.
What would you have Israel do?
Sit back and do nothing?

Israel has created a monster. There is little now anybody can do. You make your bed and have to lie in it.

Every new born child is a Jew or a Palestinian and every other thing. Hate disappears when it's not refreshed.

Hate disappears when everybody is dead.

Hate disappears when the self ceases to identify with what is irrelevant.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

Yes, I know. I was explaing my useage of a word.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

Yes, I know. I was explaing my useage of a word.

So saying Hamas seized control of Gaza was not true.
At least we agree.

 

[Martin]

Israeli minister threatens palestinians with "holocaust" - link

Israel is not interested in peace, just oppression, ethnic cleansing, war, etc. But I guess its ok, they're the chosen people and speaking against them makes you a Nazi. :roll:

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Martin
Israeli minister threatens palestinians with "holocaust" - link

Israel is not interested in peace, just oppression, ethnic cleansing, war, etc. But I guess its ok, they're the chosen people and speaking against them makes you a Nazi. :roll:

Move to Sderot.

Israel takes care of its own.

If the US or Britain was in Israel's position, they would have nuked Syria, Iran, and the Palestinians 5 years ago.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Martin
Israeli minister threatens palestinians with "holocaust" - link

Israel is not interested in peace, just oppression, ethnic cleansing, war, etc. But I guess its ok, they're the chosen people and speaking against them makes you a Nazi. :roll:

I see. So one guy says something stupid and that means Israel doesn't want peace. I can't imagine what you must think of Hamas who verbally threatens Israel with destruction daily.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
Move to Sderot.

Israel takes care of its own.

The thousands of rockets falling on Sderot for the past 7 years prove otherwise.

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
If the US or Britain was in Israel's position, they would have nuked Syria, Iran, and the Palestinians 5 years ago.

Sure, just like we nuked Saudi Arabia after we were attacked by a bunch of terrorists from there.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

Yes, I know. I was explaing my useage of a word.

So saying Hamas seized control of Gaza was not true.
At least we agree.

Wrong. After the election Fatah remained in Gaza, and Hamas did not completely control Gaza at all. Fatah gumen were all over the place, loyal to Abbas and the PA. Hamas, which indeed won the election battled Fatah and seized control complete control of Gaza. That is what I was referring to with the word 'seized'. Now can we get off my use of the word?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Martin
Israeli minister threatens palestinians with "holocaust" - link

Israel is not interested in peace, just oppression, ethnic cleansing, war, etc. But I guess its ok, they're the chosen people and speaking against them makes you a Nazi. :roll:

I see. So one guy says something stupid and that means Israel doesn't want peace. I can't imagine what you must think of Hamas who verbally threatens Israel with destruction daily.

I am sure you could, if only you could first bring yourself to accept the fact that Israel continues to not just threaten, but systematically engage in the ongoing destruction of what little is left of Palestine. But without coming to terms with that, you are bound to have trouble imagining any rational perspective on the conflict.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

Yes, I know. I was explaing my useage of a word.

So saying Hamas seized control of Gaza was not true.
At least we agree.

Wrong. After the election Fatah remained in Gaza, and Hamas did not completely control Gaza at all. Fatah gumen were all over the place, loyal to Abbas and the PA. Hamas, which indeed won the election battled Fatah and seized control complete control of Gaza. That is what I was referring to with the word 'seized'. Now can we get off my use of the word?

How can you "seize" the government when you ARE the government? The word you used is important. To imply that Hamas seized the government of Gaza is completely false. It was the PA that seized the government of the West Bank from the legitimately elected Hamas government.
Don't get me wrong, I am not in disagreement with most of your post. Its just that its important to remember what actually happened and what it means. In this case it means that it is the legitimately elected Hamas government, in Gaza, that is doing this. Which says a lot about how the Palestinians feel about Israel.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Hamas was elected to majority representation in the PA, and the loosing party overthrew that elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza.

Yes, I know. I was explaing my useage of a word.

So saying Hamas seized control of Gaza was not true.
At least we agree.

Wrong. After the election Fatah remained in Gaza, and Hamas did not completely control Gaza at all. Fatah gumen were all over the place, loyal to Abbas and the PA. Hamas, which indeed won the election battled Fatah and seized control complete control of Gaza. That is what I was referring to with the word 'seized'. Now can we get off my use of the word?

The problem isn't your use of any particular word, but rather your characterization that Hamas overthrew Fatah in the Gaza strip. Again, Fatah overthrew the elected Hamas government in the West Bank, while Hamas retained control over Gaza. The conflict wasn't an issue of Hamas attempting to seize control over anything, they won that democratically, and after that Fatah attempted to seize control from Hamas.

 

[ThePresence]

I think I explained that word to the best of my ability.
Yes, Hamas won the election, after which they fought Fatah for control of Gaza.

 

[kylebisme]

Again, fending off a coup is not a matter of fighting for control, but rather one of defending it.

 

[Throckmorton]

And somehow, now Israel is threatening Palestinians with a holocaust-- that is, the same Hebrew word used for THE holocaust.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/.../29/1204226991566.html

Among the Palestinian dead are four boys killed by an air strike on a soccer pitch on Thursday and a six-month-old baby killed when Israeli jets bombed a government building beside his home in Gaza City

It's not about security. It's about revenge. That kind of thinking belongs 2500 years ago.

Strangely enough, the EU can criticize Israel, while Clinton, Obama, and McCain stumble over each other to praise Israel, because that's the politically correct thing to do.

srael blames all the deaths on militants whose regular rocket fire has killed 12 Israelis in seven years, including four minors. The most recent such death occurred nine months ago. Dozens of Israelis and hundreds of Palestinians have been injured in the cycle of violence.

The European Union has joined various human rights groups in condemning the rocket fire while also calling on Israel to avoid harming innocent civilians in contravention of international law.

 

[Noobtastic]

The thousands of rockets falling on Sderot for the past 7 years prove otherwise.

Relatively speaking. Considering their location (surrounded by several nations who, not only have a national policy of hating the country, blatantly support groups that attack it) in the region, they've done a fairly effective job.

But yeah, if I was Israel I would have gotten rid of the Palestinian eons ago.

Sure, just like we nuked Saudi Arabia after we were attacked by a bunch of terrorists from there.

I whole heartedly agree that our relations with SA needs to end, but our dependence on fossil fuels has prevented this from happening.

The least could be doing is putting more pressure on OPEC and actually enforcing trading policies and stop taking it up the @ss whenever they arbitrarily decide to up the price.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
And somehow, now Israel is threatening Palestinians with a holocaust-- that is, the same Hebrew word used for THE holocaust.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/.../29/1204226991566.html

Among the Palestinian dead are four boys killed by an air strike on a soccer pitch on Thursday and a six-month-old baby killed when Israeli jets bombed a government building beside his home in Gaza City

It's not about security. It's about revenge. That kind of thinking belongs 2500 years ago.

Strangely enough, the EU can criticize Israel, while Clinton, Obama, and McCain stumble over each other to praise Israel, because that's the politically correct thing to do.

srael blames all the deaths on militants whose regular rocket fire has killed 12 Israelis in seven years, including four minors. The most recent such death occurred nine months ago. Dozens of Israelis and hundreds of Palestinians have been injured in the cycle of violence.

The European Union has joined various human rights groups in condemning the rocket fire while also calling on Israel to avoid harming innocent civilians in contravention of international law.

So you think more Israeli's should die?

The muslim nations have been infecting the Palestinians with anti-Israeli propaganda and have been providing resources necessary to fight them.

Terrorist attacks against Israel happen on an hourly basis, it's just the majority of them fail. Israel's response to those attacks have been relatively small considering the sheer number of attempts by the Palestinians.

Also, THOUSANDS of Israeli's have been injured by rocket fire.

the selective international media is getting on my nerves. "5 Palestinian civilians killed in rocket attack". Oh, I guess they forgot to mention the part that those 5 palestinians were housing militants...

Take a trip to Israel. It's a beautiful and cordial nation.

Take a vacation to any of the Islamic theocracies and see how hot it is. These people are far from innocent.