War is linked to Euro vs Dollar?

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Found this article as I was browsing the net and it definitely showed a different view...makes sense why France and Germany and so against it + while we want it. I'd love to hear the opinions...



who knows what the truth is?

IT'S NOT ABOUT OIL OR IRAQ.
IT'S ABOUT THE US AND EUROPE
GOING HEAD-TO-HEAD ON WORLD ECONOMIC DOMINANCE.
By Geoffrey Heard
Melbourne, Australia

There are many things driving President Bush and his
administration to invade Iraq, unseat Saddam Hussein
and take over the country. But the biggest one is
hidden and very, very simple. It is about the currency
used to trade oil and consequently, who will dominate
the world economically, in the foreseeable future --
the USA or the European Union.

Iraq is a European Union beachhead in that
confrontation. America had a monopoly on tthe oil
trade, with the US dollar being the fiat currency, but
Iraq broke ranks in 1999, started to trade oil in the
EU's euros, and profited. If America invades Iraq and
takes over, it will hurl the EU and its euro back into
the sea and make America's position as the dominant
economic power in the world all but impregnable. It is
the biggest grab for world power in modern times.

America's allies in the invasion, Britain and
Australia, are betting America will win and that they
will get some trickle-down benefits for jumping on to
the US bandwagon.

France and Germany are the spearhead of the European
force -- Russia would like to go European but possibly
can still be bought off.

Presumably, China would like to see the Europeans
build a share of international trade currency
ownership at this point while it
continues to grow its international trading presence
to the point
where it, too, can share the leadership rewards.

DEBATE BUILDING ON THE INTERNET

Oddly, little or nothing is appearing in the general
media about this issue, although key people are
becoming aware of it -- note the recent slide in the
value of the US dollar. Are traders afraid of war?
They are more likely to be afraid there will not be
war.

But despite the silence in the general media, a major
world discussion is developing around this issue,
particularly on the internet. Among the many articles:
Henry Liu, in the 'Asia Times' last June, it has been
a hot topic on the Feasta forum, an Irish-based group
exploring sustainable economics, and W. Clark's "The
Real Reasons for the Upcoming War with Iraq: A
Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the
Unspoken Truth" has been published by the 'Sierra
Times', 'Indymedia.org', and 'ratical.org'.

This debate is not about whether America would suffer
from losing the US dollar monopoly on oil trading --
that is a given -- rather it is about exactly how hard
the USA would be hit. The smart money seems to be
saying the impact would be in the range from severe to
catastrophic. The USA could collapse economically.

OIL DOLLARS

The key to it all is the fiat currency for trading
oil.

Under an OPEC agreement, all oil has been traded in US
dollars since 1971 (after the dropping of the gold
standard) which makes the US dollar the de facto major
international trading currency. If other nations have
to hoard dollars to buy oil, then they want to use
that hoard for other trading too. This fact gives
America a huge trading advantage and helps make it
the dominant economy in the world.

As an economic bloc, the European Union is the only
challenger to the USA's economic position, and it
created the euro to challenge the dollar in
international markets. However, the EU is not yet
united behind the euro -- there is a lot of jingoistic
national politics involved, not least in Britain --
and in any case, so long as nations throughout the
world must hoard dollars to buy oil, the euro can make
only very limited inroads into the dollar's dominance.

In 1999, Iraq, with the world's second largest oil
reserves, switched to trading its oil in euros.
American analysts fell about laughing; Iraq had just
made a mistake that was going to beggar the nation.
But two years on, alarm bells were sounding; the euro
was rising against the dollar, Iraq had given itself a
huge economic free kick by switching.

Iran started thinking about switching too; Venezuela,
the 4th largest oil producer, began looking at it and
has been cutting out the dollar
by bartering oil with several nations including
America's bete noir, Cuba. Russia is seeking to ramp
up oil production with Europe (trading in euros) an
obvious market.

The greenback's grip on oil trading and consequently
on world trade in general, was under serious threat.
If America did not stamp on this immediately, this
economic brushfire could rapidly be fanned into a
wildfire capable of consuming the US's economy and its
dominance of world trade.

HOW DOES THE US GET ITS DOLLAR ADVANTAGE?

Imagine this: you are deep in debt but every day you
write cheques for millions of dollars you don't have
-- another luxury car, a holiday home at the beach,
the world trip of a lifetime.

Your cheques should be worthless but they keep buying
stuff because those cheques you write never reach the
bank! You have an agreement with the owners of one
thing everyone wants, call it petrol/gas, that they
will accept only your cheques as payment. This means
everyone must hoard your cheques so they can buy
petrol/gas. Since they have to keep a stock of your
cheques, they use them to buy other stuff too. You
write a cheque to buy a TV, the TV shop owner swaps
your
cheque for petrol/gas, that seller buys some
vegetables at the fruit shop, the fruiterer passes it
on to buy bread, the baker buys some flour with it,
and on it goes, round and round -- but never back to
the bank.

You have a debt on your books, but so long as your
cheque never reaches the bank, you don't have to pay.
In effect, you have received your TV free.
This is the position the USA has enjoyed for 30 years
-- it has been getting a free world trade ride for all
that time. It has been
receiving a huge subsidy from everyone else in the
world. As it debt has been growing, it has printed
more money (written more cheques) to keep trading. No
wonder it is an economic powerhouse!
Then one day, one petrol seller says he is going to
accept another person's cheques, a couple of others
think that might be a good idea.
If this spreads, people are going to stop hoarding
your cheques and they will come flying home to the
bank. Since you don't have enough in the bank to cover
all the cheques, very nasty stuff is going to hit the
fan!

But you are big, tough and very aggressive. You don't
scare the other guy who can write cheques, he's pretty
big too, but given a 'legitimate' excuse, you can beat
the tripes out of the lone gas seller and scare him
and his mates into submission.

And that, in a nutshell, is what the USA is doing
right now with Iraq.

AMERICA'S PRECARIOUS ECONOMIC POSITION

America is so eager to attack Iraq now because of the
speed with which the euro fire could spread. If Iran,
Venezuela and Russia join Iraq and sell large
quantities of oil for euros, the euro would have the
leverage it needs to become a powerful force in
general international trade. Other nations would have
to start swapping some of their dollars for euros.

The dollars the USA has printed, the 'cheques' it has
written, would start to fly home, stripping away the
illusion of value behind them. The USA's real economic
condition is about as bad as it could be; it is the
most debt-ridden nation on earth, owing about
US$12,000 for every single one of it's 280 million
men, women and children. It is worse than the position
of Indonesia when it imploded economically a few years
ago, or more recently, that of Argentina.

Even if OPEC did not switch to euros wholesale (and
that would make a very nice non-oil profit for the
OPEC countries, including minimising the various
contrived debts America has forced on some of them),
the US's difficulties would build. Even if only a
small part of the oil trade went euro, that would do
two things immediately:

* Increase the attractiveness to EU members of
joining the 'eurozone', which in turn would make the
euro stronger and make it more attractive to oil
nations as a trading currency and to other nations as
a general trading currency.

* Start the US dollars flying home demanding value
when there isn't enough in the bank to cover them.

* The markets would over-react as usual and in no
time, the US dollar's value would be spiralling down.

THE US SOLUTION

America's response to the euro threat was predictable.
It has come out fighting.

It aims to achieve four primary things by going to war
with Iraq:

* Safeguard the American economy by returning Iraq to
trading oil in US dollars, so the greenback is once
again the exclusive oil currency.

* Send a very clear message to any other oil
producers just what will happen to them if they do not
stay in the dollar circle. Iran has already received
one message -- remember how puzzled you were that in
the midst of moderation and secularization, Iran was
named as a member of the axis of evil?

* Place the second largest reserves of oil in the
world under direct American control.

* Provide a secular, subject state where the US can
maintain a huge force (perhaps with nominal elements
from allies such as Britain and Australia) to dominate
the Middle East and its vital oil. This would enable
the US to avoid using what it sees as the unreliable
Turkey, the politically impossible Israel and surely
the next state in its sights, Saudi Arabia, the
birthplace of al Qaeda and a hotbed of anti-American
sentiment.

* Severe setback the European Union and its euro, the
only trading bloc and currency strong enough to attack
the USA's dominance of world trade through the dollar.

* Provide cover for the US to run a covert operation
to overturn the democratically elected government of
Venezuela and replace it with an America-friendly
military supported junta -- and put Venezuala's oil
into American hands.

Locking the world back into dollar oil trading would
consolidate America's current position and make it all
but impregnable as the dominant world power --
economically and militarily. A splintered Europe (the
US is working hard to split Europe; Britain was easy,
but other Europeans have offered support in terms of
UN votes) and its
euro would suffer a serious setback and might take
decades to recover.

It is the boldest grab for absolute power the world
has seen in modern times. America is hardly likely to
allow the possible slaughter of a few hundred thousand
Iraqis stand between it and world domination.

President Bush did promise to protect the American way
of life. This is what he meant.

JUSTIFYING WAR

Obviously, the US could not simply invade Iraq, so it
began casting around for a 'legitimate' reason to
attack. That search has been one of increasing
desperation as each rationalization has crumbled.
First Iraq was a threat because of alleged links to al
Qaeda; then it was proposed Iraq might supply al Qaeda
with weapons; then Iraq's military threat to its
neighbours was raised; then the need to deliver Iraqis
from Saddam Hussein's horrendously inhumane rule;
finally there is the question of compliance with UN
weapons inspection.

The USA's justifications for invading Iraq are looking
less impressive by the day. The US's statements that
it would invade Iraq unilaterally without UN support
and in defiance of the UN make a total nonsense of any
American claim that it is concerned about the world
body's strength and standing.

The UN weapons inspectors have come up with minimal
infringements of the UN weapons limitations -- the
final one being low tech rockets which exceed the
range allowed by about 20 percent. But there is no
sign of the so-called weapons of mass destruction
(WMD) the US has so confidently asserted are to be
found. Colin Powell named a certain north Iraqi
village as a threat. It was not. He later admitted it
was the wrong village.

'Newsweek' (24/2) has reported that while Bush
officials have been trumpeting the fact that key Iraqi
defector, Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, told the US in 1995
that Iraq had manufactured ton of nerve gas and
anthrax (Colin Powell's 5 February presentation to the
UN wasjust one example) they neglected to mention that
Kamel had also told the US that these weapons had been
destroyed.

Parts of the US and particularly the British secret
'evidence' have been shown to come from a student's
masters thesis. America's expressed concern about
the Iraqi people's human rights and the country's lack
of democracy are simply not supported by the USA's
history of intervention in other states nor by its
current actions. Think Guatemala, the Congo, Chile and
Nicaragua as examples of a much larger pool of US
actions to tear down legitimate, democratically
elected governments and replace them with war,
disruption, starvation, poverty, corruption,
dictatorships, torture, rape and murder for its own
economic ends. The most recent, Afghanistan, is not
looking good; in fact that reinstalled a murderous
group of warlords which America had earlier installed,
then deposed, in favour of the now hated Taliban.

Saddam Hussein was just as repressive, corrupt and
murderous 15 years ago when he used chemical weapons,
supplied by the US, against the Kurds. The current US
Secretary for Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, so vehement
against Iraq now, was on hand personally to turn aside
condemnation of Iraq and blame Iran. At that time, of
course, the US thought Saddam Hussein was their man --
they were using him against the perceived threat of
Iran's Islamic fundamentalism. Right now, as 'The
Independent' writer, Robert Fisk, has noted, the US's
efforts to buy Algeria's UN vote includes promises of
re-arming the military which has a decade long history
of repression, torture, rape and murder Saddam Hussein
himself would envy. It is estimated 200,000 people
have died, and countless others been left maimed by
the activities of these monsters. What price the US's
humanitarian concerns for Iraqis? (Of course, the
French are also wooing Algeria, their former north
African territory, for all they are worth, but at
least they are not pretending to be driven by
humanitarian concerns.)

Indonesia is another nation with a vote and influence
as the largest Muslim nation in the world. Its
repressive, murderous military is regaining strength
on the back of the US's so-called anti-terror campaign
and is receiving promises of open and covert support
-- including intelligence sharing.

AND VENEZUELA While the world's attention is focused
on Iraq, America is both openly and covertly
supporting the "coup of the rich" in Venezuela, which
grabbed power briefly in April last year before being
intimidated by massive public displays of support by
the poor for democratically-elected President Chavez
Frias. The coup leaders continue to use their control
of the private media, much of industry and the ear of
the American Government and its oily intimates to
cause disruption and disturbance.

Venezuela's state-owned oil resources would make rich
pickings for American oil companies and provide the US
with an important oil source in its own backyard.

Many writers have noted the contradiction between
America's alleged desire to establish democracy in
Iraq while at the same time, actively undermining the
democratically-elected government in Venezuela. Above
the line, America rushed to recognise the coup last
April; more recently, President Bush has called for
"early elections", ignoring the fact that President
Chavez Frias has won three elections and two
referendums and, in any case, early elections would be
unconstitutional.

One element of the USA's covert action against
Venezuela is the behaviour of American transnational
businesses, which have locked out employees in support
of "national strike" action. Imagine them doing that
in the USA! There is no question that a covert
operation is in process to overturn the legitimate
Venezuelan government. Uruguayan congressman, Jose
Nayardi, made it public when he revealed that the Bush
administration had asked for Uruguay's support for
Venezuelan white collar executives and trade union
activists "to break down levels of intransigence
within the Chavez Frias administration". The process,
he noted, was a shocking reminder of the CIA's 1973
intervention in Chile which saw General Pinochet lead
his military coup to take over President Allende's
democratically elected government in a bloodbath.

President Chavez Frias is desperately clinging to
government, but with the might of the USA aligned with
his opponents, how long can he last?

THE COST OF WAR

Some have claimed that an American invasion of Iraq
would cost so many billions of dollars that oil
returns would never justify such an action.

But when the invasion is placed in the context of the
protection of the entire US economy for now and into
the future, the balance of the argument changes.

Further, there are three other vital factors:

First, America will be asking others to help pay for
the war because it is protecting their interests.
Japan and Saudi Arabia made serious contributions to
the cost of the 1991 Gulf war.

Second -- in reality, war will cost the USA very
little -- or at least, very little over and above
normal expenditure. This war is already paid for! All
the munitions and equipment have been bought and paid
for. The USA would have to spend hardly a cent on new
hardware to prosecute this war -- the expenditure will
come later when munitions and equipment have to be
replaced after the war. But munitions, hardware and so
on are being replaced all the time -- contracts are
out. Some contracts will simply be brought forward and
some others will be ramped up a bit, but spread over a
few years, the cost will not be great. And what is the
real extra cost of an army at war compared with
maintaining the standing army around the world,
running exercises and so on? It is there, but it is a
relatively small sum.

Third -- lots of the extra costs involved in the war
are dollars spent outside America, not least in the
purchase of fuel. Guess how America will pay for
these? By printing dollars it is going to war to
protect. The same happens when production begins to
replace hardware. components, minerals, etc. are
bought in with dollars that go overseas and exploit
America's trading advantage.

The cost of war is not nearly as big as it is made out
to be. The cost of not going to war would be
horrendous for the USA â ? unless there were another
way of protecting the greenback's world trade
dominance.

AMERICA'S TWO ACTIVE ALLIES

Why are Australia and Britain supporting America in
its transparent Iraqi war ploy?

Australia, of course, has significant US dollar
reserves and trades widely in dollars and extensively
with America. A fall in the US dollar would reduce
Australia's debt, perhaps, but would do nothing for
the Australian dollar's value against other
currencies. John Howard, the Prime Minister, has long
cherished the dream of a free trade agreement with the
USA in the hope that Australia can jump on the back of
the free ride America gets in trade through the
dollar's position as the major trading medium. That
would look much less attractive if the euro took over
a significant part of the oil trade.

Britain has yet to adopt the euro. If the US takes
over Iraq and blocks the euro's incursion into oil
trading, Tony Blair will have given his French and
German counterparts a bloody nose, and gained more
room to manouevre on the issue -- perhaps years more
room. Britain would be in a position to demand a
better deal from its EU partners for entering the
"eurozone" if the new currency could not make the
huge value gains guaranteed by a significant role in
world oil trading. It might even be in a position to
withdraw from Europe and link with America against
continental Europe.

On the other hand, if the US cannot maintain the oil
trade dollar monopoly, the euro will rapidly go from
strength to strength, and Britain could be left
begging to be allowed into the club.

THE OPPOSITION

Some of the reasons for opposition to the American
plan are obvious -- America is already the strongest
nation on earth and dominates world trade through its
dollar. If it had control of the Iraqi oil and a base
for its forces in the Middle East, it would not add
to, but would multiply its power.

The oil-producing nations, particularly the Arab ones,
can see the writing on the wall and are quaking in
their boots.

France and Germany are the EU leaders with the vision
of a resurgent, united Europe taking its rightful
place in the world and using its euro currency as a
world trading reserve currency and thus gaining some
of the free ride the United States enjoys now. They
are the ones who initiated the euro oil trade with
Iraq.

Russia is in deep economic trouble and knows it will
get worse the day America starts exploiting its
take-over of Afghanistan by running a pipeline
southwards via Afghanistan from the giant southern
Caspian oil fields. Currently, that oil is piped
northwards -- where Russia has control.

Russia is in the process of ramping up oil production
with the possibility of trading some of it for euros
and selling some to the US itself. Russia already has
enough problems with the fact that oil is traded in US
dollars; if the US has control of Iraqi oil, it could
distort the market to Russia's enormous disadvantage.
In addition, Russia has interests in Iraqi oil; an
American take over could see them lost. Already on its
knees, Russia could be beggared before a mile of the
Afghanistan pipeline is laid.

ANOTHER SOLUTION?

The scenario clarifies the seriousness of America's
position and explains its frantic drive for war. It
also suggests that solutions other than war are
possible.

Could America agree to share the trading goodies by
allowing Europe to have a negotiated part of it? Not
very likely, but it is just possible Europe can stare
down the USA and force such an outcome. Time will
tell. What about Europe taking the statesmanlike,
humanitarian and long view, and withdrawing, leaving
the oil to the US, with appropriate safeguards for
ordinary Iraqis and democracy in Venezuela?

Europe might then be forced to adopt a smarter
approach â ? perhaps accelerating the development of
alternative energy technologies which would reduce the
EU's reliance on oil for energy and produce goods it
could trade for euros -- shifting the world trade
balance. Now that would be a very positive outcome
for everyone.

.Geoffrey Heard is a Melbourne, Australia, writer on
the environment, sustainability and human rights.
. . . .
Geoffrey Heard C 2003. Anyone is free to circulate
this document provided it is complete and in its
current form with attribution and no payment is asked.
It is prohibited to reproduce this document or any
part of it for commercial gain without the prior
permission of the author. For such permission, contact
the author at
gheard@surf.net.au.

'The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq: A
Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the
Unspoken Truth' by W. Clark, January 2003 (revised 20
February), Independent Media Center,
www.indymedia.org

http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=28334â
This war is about more than oil. OIL DOLLARS!!!!
DOLLARS, THE EURO AND WAR IN IRAQ. This story is
based on material posted by Richard Douthwaite on the
FEASTA list in Ireland.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1550023_comment.php#1551138
USA intelligence agencies revealed in plot to oust
Venezuela's President
Washington Post Split Screen In Strike-Torn Venezuela
By Mark Weisbrot Sunday, January 12, 2003; Page B04

http://www.atimes.com/global-econ/DD11Dj01.html Asia
Times online: Global Economy US dollar hegemony has
got to go By Henry C K Liu
http://www.feasta.org/energy.htm
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html
The Observer
The Enemy Within
by Gore Vidal London, Sunday 27 October 2002
 

nagger

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2001
1,429
0
0
Originally posted by: wizardLRU
I skimmed it, very interesting read.......

yep, very insightfully.

I read today a letter from mozambican writer Mia Couto to President GWB

Mr. President:

I am a writer of a poor nation, a country that already was in your black list. Millions of mozambican were unaware of that badly we had made you. We were small e poor: that threat we could constitute? Our weapon of mass destruction was, after all, turn against us: it was the hunger and the misery.

Some of us had found odd the that took the one that our name was spotted while other nations benefited of your affection. For example, our neighbor - Africa of the South of "apartheid" - violated of form instant the human rights.

During decades we were victims of the aggression of this regimen. But the regimen of "apartheid" more deserved of your part an brand attitude: the call "positive involvement". The ANC was also in the black list as a "terrorist organization". Strange criterion that would take the one that, years later, taliban and the proper Bin North American Laden were called "freedom fighters" by strategists.

Therefore I, poor person writer of a poor country, had a dream. As Martin Luther certain King time dreamed that America was a nation of all the Americans. Therefore I dreamed that age not a man but a country. Yes, a country that did not obtain to sleep. Because it lived under unrest for terrible facts. E this fear made with that it proclaimed a requirement. A requirement that had to see I obtain, Expensive President. E I demanded that the United States of America proceeded to the elimination of its armament of mass destruction. For reason of these terrible dangers I demanded more: that inspectors of the Joined Nations were sent for your country.

What terrible dangers alerted to me? That distrusts your country inhaled to me? They were not dream products, unhappily. They were facts that fed my diffidence. The list is so great that I will choose only some:

- the United States had been the only nation of the world that launched atomic bombs on other nations;
- its country was the only nation to be condemned by "illegitimate use of the force" for the International Court of Justice;
- American Forces had trained and provided weapons to Islamic fundamentalists (including the terrorist Bin Laden) the excuse to knock down the Russian invaders in the Afghanistan;
- the regimen of Saddam Hussein was supported by U.S.A. while it practiced the worse atrocities against the iraqis (including the gassing of the Kurds in 1998);
- As as much other legitimate controllers, the African Patrice Lumumba was assassinated with aid of the CIA. After prisoner and tortured and transferred in the head its body he was dissolved in acid clorídico;
- As as much other puppets, Mobutu Seseseko was for your agents lead to the power and granted easinesses special to the American espionage: the quarter-general of the CIA in the Zaire became the greater in Africa. The brutal dictatorship of this zairense did not deserve no repair of U.S.A. until it left of being convenient, in 1992;
- the invasion of Timor East for the indonesians military deserved the support of U.S.A.. When the atrocities had been known, the reply of the Clinton Administration it was "the subject is of the responsibility of the indonesian government and we do not want to remove this responsibility to it";
- your country lodged criminals as Emmanuel Constant one of the bloodiest leaders of Taiti whose paramilitary forces had massacred thousand of innocents. Constant was judged to the default and the new authorities had requested its extradition. The American government refused the order.
- In August of 1998, the Air Force of U.S.A. bombed in Sudan a medicine plant, assigned Al-Shifa. A deceit? Not, one was about a retaliation of the bombists attempted against ones of Nairobi and Dar-es-Saalam.
- In December of 1987, the United States were the only country (together with Israel) to vote against a motion of conviction to the international terrorism. Exactly thus, the motion was approved by the vote of one hundred and fifty and three countries.
- In 1953, the CIA helped to prepare the coup d etat against Iran in the sequence of the which thousand of Communists of the Tudeh had been massacred. The list of coups prepared for the CIA is well long.
- Since the Second World War I, U.S.A. had bombed: China (1945-46), Korea and China (1950-53), Guatemala (1954), Indonesia (1958), Cuba (1959-1961), Guatemala (1960), Congo (1964), Peru (1965), Laos (1961-1973), Vietname (1961-1973), Cambodia (1969-1970), Guatemala (1967-1973), Granada (1983), Lebanon (1983-1984), Lybia (1986), Salvador (1980), Nicaragua (1980), Iran (1987), Panama (1989), Iraq (1990-2001), Kuwait (1991), Somalia (1993), Bosnia 1994-95), Sudan (1998), Afghanistan (1998), Yoguslavia (1999)
- Actions of biological and chemical terrorism were used by the U.S.A.: the agent orange and others in Vietname, the plague virus against Cuba that during years devastated the pig production in that country.
- the Wall Street Journal published a report that announced that 500 000 Vietnamese children have been born deformed in consequence of the chemical war of the North American forces.

I woke up of the nightmare of sleep for the nightmare of the reality.
The war that Mr. President pushed to be initiated will be able to free us of a dictator. But we will be all poorer than we currently are.

We will face greater difficulties in ours already precarious economies and will have little hope in a future governed by reason and moral.

We will have little faith in the regulating force of the United Nations and the conventions of the international law.

In the end, more alone and more abandoned.

Mr. President:

Iraq Is not Saddam.

There are 22 million mothers and children, and of men who work and dream as they make the common North Americans. We are worried about males of the regimen of Saddam Hussein that is real. Forgotten are the horrors from the first Gulf War when 150 000 men had lost their life.
What it is massively destroying the iraqis isn't the weapons of Saddam.
It's the sanctions that had lead to a serious humanitarian situation that led to two coordinators for aid from the United Nations (Dennis Halliday and Hans Von Sponeck) to ask for the resignation in protest against these same sanctions.
Explaining the reason of its resignation, Halliday wrote: "we are destroying an entire society. It is so simple and terrible as this. And this is illegal and immoral ". This system of sanctions already took to the death half million of Iraqi children. But the war against Iraq is not for starting. Already it started has much time. In the zones of aerial restriction the North and South of Iraq happen continuously bombardments in the last 12 years.
One gives credit that 500 iraqis had been died since 1999.
The bombings included the massive use of Uranium (300 tons, or either 30 times more than was used in Kosovo)
We will get rid of Saddam.
But we will continue prisoners of the logic of the war and the arrogance.
I do not want that my children (nor theirs) lives dominated for the ghost of the fear. And I think that, to live quietly, they need to construct a a fortress. And they will only be safe when they spend vast sums of money in weapons. Like your country that expends 270 000 000 000 000 dollars (two hundred and seventy billion dollars) yearly to keep the war armory. You know very well what this addition could help to change the needy destination of millions of beings.
The American bishop Monsignor Robert Bowan wrote it in the end of the last year an entitled letter "Because it is that the world hates U.S.A." The bishop of the Church Catholic of the Flowery one is former -- a combatant one in the war of the Vietname. It knows what it is the war and he wrote: "he complains You that U.S.A. is white of the terrorism because we defend the human democracy, freedom and rights. How nonsense, Mr. President! We are white of the terrorists because, in the biggest part of the world, our government defended the dictatorship, the slavery and the exploration human being. We are white of the terrorists because we are hated. E we are hated because our government made things hateful people. In how many agent countries of our government they had put down elect leaders popularly substituting them for military dictators, desirous puppets of vendor its proper people to the North American corporations multinationals? E the bishop concludes: The people of Canada enjoys of democracy, freedom and human rights, as well as the people of the Norway and Sweden. Some time heard to say you of attacks the Canadian, Norwegian or Swedish embassies? We are hated not because we practice human democracy, freedom or rights. We are hated because our government denies these things to the peoples of the countries of the Third World, whose resources are coveted by our multinationals." Sir President: Its Excellency seems not to need that an international institution legitimizes its right of military intervention. To little than we let us can find moral and truth in its argument. I and more millions of citizens we are not vain when we saw to justify it the war. We preferred we see lo to sign the Convention of Kyoto to contain the greenhouse effect. We preferred to have seen it in Durban in the International Conference against Racism.

Don't worry, Mr. President. We, the small nations of this world, aren't demanding your resignation because of this support that your successive administrations had granted to support the not less successive dictators. The biggest threat that weighs on America is not armaments of others. It is the lie universe that if created around your citizens.

The danger is not the regimen of Saddam, nor any other regimen. But the superiority feeling that seems to liven up its government. Your main enemy is not outside. It is inside the U.S.. This war alone can be won by the proper Americans. I would like to be able to party when you knock down Saddam Hussein. And to party with all the Americans. But without hypocrisy, diminished argument and consumption of mental. Because we, dear President Bush, we, the peoples of the small countries, have a weapon of mass construction: the capacity to think.

The text above was translated using Google so spare me
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Money always plays a role, France, Germany, and Russia are each owed bilions by Iraq, all that will be lost if his regime falls, not too mention the lucrative business deals lined up to commence whenever sanctions may have stopped.

I agree there is a power issue, both politically and fiscally. The EU nations that supported us will be rewarded accordingly in both repsects. Those that opposed and attempted to act as if they were the chosen leaders of the EU will get nothing and watch as they become secondary within the EU.
 

Yax

Platinum Member
Feb 11, 2003
2,866
0
0
Too long, skimmed through it. Looks like allota bs. Just because something is written, doesn't make it a fact. One would expect Britain and Spain to be with the French if this article was correct, duhh.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,206
5,786
126
I certainly hope not. The kind of reasoning proposed by that article is frightening, though it seems to offer a context to what is and has been happening.

For as long as I've been paying attention(early 80's) the US has had Trade deficits. The relation of which has never been completely explained in regards to it's GDP growth. Services, which aren't calculated in Trade numbers, is often given as the reason for GDP growth/Trade Deficit contradiction, yet no one(that I'm aware of) ever gives the value of "Services". I have always accepted this as a reasonable explanation, this article certainly provides some food for thought concerning this.

The article certainly seems to offer a valid "explanation" of the odd foreign policy of the current administration, if this article is the truth, I would much prefer "Bush as Moron" over "Bush as protector of American interests".

I'm not an economists and have little knowledge of money markets, but this article seems to make sense. That said, it could be just a well crafted Conspiracy Theory.
 

Trevelyan

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2000
4,077
0
71
Man, ever since my 10th grade year in high school I've worried about our national debt... I've never understood how we could continue to prosper with so much DEBT, and honestly it did and still does make me nervous.

I have this terrible feeling our country is gonna go into a terrible depression (note: depression, not just recession) and that our economy will crumble and many will lose their jobs... I'm much more afraid of this happening than any country bombing us. So yeah, it is scary times, but not for the reasons a lot of people think.
 

clarkmo

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2000
2,615
2
81
No, Treveleyan. The debt is internal. It will not bankrupt us. That international economic theory is flwaed, however. The value of a nation's currency is mostly dependent on the nation's products and credibility. While the type of currency used does have weight in the world markets, do you honestly think the value of the dollar would decrease to nada when it's goods and services are held in such high value internationally? Let alone it's value as the number 1 consumer .Pay in euros or dollars. Exchange rates fluctuate unpredictably. It would not bankrupt us or even come close. Just another hurdle.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,206
5,786
126
Originally posted by: clarkmo
No, Treveleyan. The debt is internal. It will not bankrupt us. That international economic theory is flwaed, however. The value of a nation's currency is mostly dependent on the nation's products and credibility. While the type of currency used does have weight in the world markets, do you honestly think the value of the dollar would decrease to nada when it's goods and services are held in such high value internationally? Let alone it's value as the number 1 consumer .Pay in euros or dollars. Exchange rates fluctuate unpredictably. It would not bankrupt us or even come close. Just another hurdle.

The debt *is not* internal. Japan owns some 20% of the debt itself, I don't know how much Europe or others own.

National Debt

Graphs, including foreign owned debt...43% owned by foreign interests

National debt as of 1996, includes pie chart of ownership(40% foreign), and graphs from 1940-1996
 

clarkmo

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2000
2,615
2
81
Japan did have 20% of the debt and it help them much when they had their financial difficulties. I think they would have preferred cash at the time. Yes, some is foreign debt and if the dollar goes down their holdings go down with it. The money is invested in our t-notes for a reason. That's right though. I forgot. All the public reasons we're in Iraq are false. This is as good as any of the weird speculative fantastic other reasons as any. We need an economist on board! Where's the EconoMod?
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
I thought most people were aware of this. Well, except for the idiots who think the US is altruistic and is fighting this war to liberate Iraq.

 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
1,464
0
0
Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Too long, skimmed through it. Looks like allota bs. Just because something is written, doesn't make it a fact. One would expect Britain and Spain to be with the French if this article was correct, duhh.

britain does not use the euro. spain's leader is supposed to be a personal friend of gw bush, which is probably why he is supporting him even though about 70% of his country doesnt. now you see who's on which side.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.

Tell me, if OPEC started using the Euro instead of the dollar, would this be good or bad for the US? Keeping in mind that preemptive strikes and staying ahead at all costs are official US policy, why do you think this isn't one of the major reasons for the war?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.

Tell me, if OPEC started using the Euro instead of the dollar, would this be good or bad for the US? Keeping in mind that preemptive strikes and staying ahead at all costs are official US policy, why do you think this isn't one of the major reasons for the war?

I see opec using the Euro as a non issue. The US has about 100million fewer people and a gdp several trillian more than the EU. Opec would be a bit foolish to say they dont accept dollars.

I repeat, it is just not an issue.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.

Tell me, if OPEC started using the Euro instead of the dollar, would this be good or bad for the US? Keeping in mind that preemptive strikes and staying ahead at all costs are official US policy, why do you think this isn't one of the major reasons for the war?

I see opec using the Euro as a non issue. The US has about 100million fewer people and a gdp several trillian more than the EU. Opec would be a bit foolish to say they dont accept dollars.

I repeat, it is just not an issue.

How can this me a non-issue when the US's economic dominance depends so heavily on the dollar being a de facto world currency and the Euro being the only currency that can compete with it?

Tell me, do you think countries go to war over principles or interests? Aren't economic interests perhaps the most important ones?

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.

Tell me, if OPEC started using the Euro instead of the dollar, would this be good or bad for the US? Keeping in mind that preemptive strikes and staying ahead at all costs are official US policy, why do you think this isn't one of the major reasons for the war?

I see opec using the Euro as a non issue. The US has about 100million fewer people and a gdp several trillian more than the EU. Opec would be a bit foolish to say they dont accept dollars.

I repeat, it is just not an issue.

How can this me a non-issue when the US's economic dominance depends so heavily on the dollar being a de facto world currency and the Euro being the only currency that can compete with it?

Tell me, do you think countries go to war over principles or interests? Aren't economic interests perhaps the most important ones?

THe EU and Dollar are both very strong currencys. The US economy is much stronger. The US would take a slight hit(exchange fees) in the unlikely event opec stopped taking dollars. OPEC not taking dollars is very unlikely event.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.


You mean "TWO" 3rd world countries?

Well Iraq does have the world's second largest known oil reserves...

And Venezula and Iran (not sure who was the second you were referring too) are major players
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
to sum it up.

No.

You counter argument is compelling...I cannot help but fully agree with you!

Ok, too 3rd world countries that switch to using the Euro. That links the entire war to the Euro. Sorry the Euro is not even a factor.

No, if you want to say EU power is involved this war, I would have to agree. France is trying to stop the US at all costs to show it has power.


You mean "TWO" 3rd world countries?

Well Iraq does have the world's second largest known oil reserves...

And Venezula and Iran (not sure who was the second you were referring too) are major players

I was referring to iraq and north korea.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,206
5,786
126
Did some Googling and came up with some interesting links that are *somewhat* related to the article of this thread. They explain the importance of a strong $US and have some info on the Euro and how it plays a role on the Global Economy. I'll include some info with each link as to what info it contains.

1) Article from the Washington Post This article is from before the war and basically discusses how anxiety over the war has caused the Euro to surpass the $US.

2) Official EU site This is an official statement from the EU explaining how they view the Euro as it pertains to the Global Economy. This one doesn't pertain to the issue at hand much, but is interesting.

3) Article from MSNBC This article explores the risk to the $US caused by the war. It points out some issues raised by the thread intro article such as: The US Trade Deficit(nearly $1/2 Trillion/year); Foreign Investment in the US props up the US economy(overcomes previous point); How the possible fall of the $US could seriously harm the US economy; How the decline of the $US could benefit the Euro and EU.

4) Page of 24 articles from the Global Policy Forum(?) Don't know much about this site and have only read part of the first articles listed, but it covers a lot on the subject of "Dollarization"(the adoption and use of $US by Foreign Economies). Among the 24 articles on this page is the article that this thread is based upon. From what I've gleened the Global Policy Forum has done some consultation for the UN, other than that I don't know their reliability. However, so far the first article seems very informative and doesn't present the same kind of conjecture that was presented in the original article of this thread(excepting the actual same article listed). This is a link to the BIO of the Executive Director and this is a link to the Members of the Board
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
Charrison

All these articles have tha same info. It would be a disaster for the US if the euro replaces the dollar as the most important currency (especially in the oil market.). Where do you have the information that contradicts that??? As I understand the authors of these articles are people with an extensive knowledge about economic and financial stuff. You are just saying that the info they gave is not correct. Do you have some links to back up your claims
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Charrison

All these articles have tha same info. It would be a disaster for the US if the euro replaces the dollar as the most important currency (especially in the oil market.). Where do you have the information that contradicts that??? As I understand the authors of these articles are people with an extensive knowledge about economic and financial stuff. You are just saying that the info they gave is not correct. Do you have some links to back up your claims

This article has a single event replacing the Dollar with the Euro. There is much more involved than a single item. Right and for the forseeable future, the US has the dominate and most productive economy. This will change just because OPEC starts to the US Euro. It will without a doubt make the Euro strong and dollar weaker, but it will not cause the US to not be the dominate economy in the world.

Other things to consider in this economy strength equation.
1. The US is responsable for more than 40% of the worlds Research and developement.
2. Declining EU population with large social programs
3. Shorter work weeks in EU as a whole
4. Lack of defense spending in the EU.

This is just what I can think of off the top of my head, and I am sure there are many more.



 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
"3. Shorter work weeks in EU as a whole
4. Lack of defense spending in the EU"


Are you referring to France? I was watching Euronews and it seems that they aren't getting more leisure time as intended, but rather they have to do the SAME work within a SHORTER amount of time and its tiring many Frenchmen.


As for defense spending as the EU plays a larger global role it will increase, but remember our hippocritical positions when it comes to foreign policy. The initial article posted above outlines a few of them
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |