WAR - what is your impression?

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Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: Dumac
Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
lmao... Dest has broken roots? WTF are you idiots playing? Until the Root hotfix I'd get perma-rooted by Engies and BWs all the time. The only AOE roots I see thrown around on Dest side are the Sorc Ice root. I STILL get perma-rooted by Engies and BWs (and sometimes SW) because Order CC classes are actually popular and they have enough of it available they can chain it together... but my guild still wins FAR more scenarios than we lose. The other day we ran Mourkain with 3 BOs, 1 Chosen, 1 Sorc and one puggy (also chosen) in our group... dominated the other team through teamwork, despite cc spam... no healers on an almost 100% tank group (and only ONE on the other team).

Engies outnumber Magus' like 10:1 AT LEAST. I rarely ever see a Magus in a scenario (least popular class in the game), but I'll be up against Order teams with 3-4 Engies out of their 12 people.
And BWs no less than 3:1 on Sorcs. Always see at least one Sorc running around, but again, often 3+ BWs. In T1 I once joined a scenario vs 10 BWs and 2 Archmages. LMFAO.
As for SHs... not near as popular as SWs, but at least better than Magus pop numbers.

Order doesn't have any room to whine about roots. And IMHO, if you think you're a "melee" toon because you play a Warrior Priest... I'm not surprised you get stomped on by Dest teams with VERY limited CC. Same goes for DoKs really. I've seen ONE guy who knows how to play an effective DoK, and he's in my guild. They're a true hybrid, and if you try to play them too heavy in either direction, you do a huge disservice to your team. Granted, having a good tank by his side helps.

Honestly it shouldn't be a surprise that we stomp all over Order even with all the CC spam you guys put out... you field like 2 tanks and 10 squishies in a scenario most of the time and expect to do well. GG.

That's funny. I rarely ever see a Destro get rooted by any of these amazing, broken Order roots. Perhaps the game differs, client to client? Maybe we aren't playing the same game at all...

I don't think anyone here really plays a WP as a "melee" toon, but physical combat is an integral part of the WP build. If you aren't able to melee or convert AP to RF, then you are useless. This is what a root does to a WP.

You must be playing a different game to the rest of us then,WP main attack is melee ,they are a hybrid support class (healer/melee) so what else are they supposed to do?..I'm playing WP at the moment and what do Destruction guys always do yes root and root and root,try going after any Destruction class that has root,first thing they do is root you and thats it you can't do jack...Example yesterday I was rooted 5 times within 3 mins (lucky my team kept me alive).

Speaking of hybrid classes ,lets take WP for example if he or she is only healer in the group then your MAIN role is going to be healing,if there are other healers then you can mix it up a bit with combat and healing,that's what I do,our melee offence is decent(epecially with decent 2 handed weapon and strength stats) .
We have no roots of our own,crappy snare is only thing I have.

I have played many games with roots but WAR has gone over the top with roots being spammed all the time,they should change cool down on the timers or even limited more of the classes that have it.

The game is not balanced for 1 on 1 or group via group,its only balanced if you get the right combination of classes in RvR and Scenerio's,which 90% of time never happens....RvR is empty in a lot of areas (unless there is a keep battle siege going on),this is on busiest European populated server and most times you may stuble into a small group of Destruction guys that will gank you,rarely do you find 1 on 1 situation,probably why most players prefer scenerio's since at least you have the numbers even if nothing else.


People are playing Destruction classes because they look cooler(tank on Order side is a little short dwarf,you know he/she does not look cool,a 6ft human tank would look better) Sword Masters are elves do they look cool no(artwork design of characters you have to say Destruction classes look better then Order classes),population is more biased toward Destruction classes on virtually every server if you bothered to check stats,you think its going to be fun longterm playing Order..personally I would have to say not at this time....The game has a chance but changes have to be made,personally I like to see more new classes on both sides.

Speaking of bugs,I hope they fix the one where buffing your group in PQs it stops you being flagged as PVP/RVR if anybody in your group is already flagged,annoying when you just done hours of PVP and had your flag status removed to have it back again when you just want to help your group with the PQ etc...yes I have seen DoKs attack players in PQs,if I want to be flagged then I'll decide when,remember players expect buffs in PQs but not at the expense of being flagged everytime.

I'm going to play the game today and see how it goes,main problem I have is not what I said above but the lag etc that a lot of players have on my server ,if they want us to pay a sub for this game they better fix the lag ASAP.Try to take a keep is a joke in a group I was getting like 1-2 FPS with no AA/AF on fastest frame rate settings(4870 card btw) and before anybody says its my hardware theres a huge thread at Waralliance with players with top hardware etc having same problem on my server,took like 5 secs before I could click an attck button,by then was dead.Some areas are better then others just like some RvR scenerio's are better lag wise then other areas,so ones like Murk temple on tier 2 I avoid,Troll crossing and Phonenix are more or less ok.

WarAlliance lag thread.





 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,270
136
Ah Scenarios, how i love to hate them....group make up seems to be the following 80% of the time on my server
1 Tank
10 DPS
1 Healer

end result 500-100 Destruction win
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Originally posted by: AbAbber2k
Honestly it shouldn't be a surprise that we stomp all over Order even with all the CC spam you guys put out... you field like 2 tanks and 10 squishies in a scenario most of the time and expect to do well. GG.

Yeah, i'd make an order tank but I don't believe in elf tanks and the dwarf tank doesn't look badass enough to overcome the height issue...

Though on my server it seems quite a few disagree with me there
 

tsolin01

Member
Sep 2, 2008
43
0
0
I guess being on the destruction side and not having a root ability yet, I don't see the crazy rooting from the destro side. What I do see is lots from the Order side, mainly bright wizards. It helps that I do have an ability to break them every minute but sometimes I do get chain rooted, not that often though.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Originally posted by: KMFJD
Ah Scenarios, how i love to hate them....group make up seems to be the following 80% of the time on my server
1 Tank
10 DPS
1 Healer

end result 500-100 Destruction win

Isn't it ironic how WAR was praised since, SUPPOSEDLY, it would solve all the "imbalances problems" WoW has

I have a HARD time against horde on our server, we literally lose 95 out of 100 BGs since Ally on our server INCREDIBLE SUCKS.

Now i play WAR (sometimes) and, at least i get something positive out of it, we (Destr) win MOST of the time (If a scen pops, that is

From that point of view, it's already proven that WAR PvP balance is at elast as broken as WoW's ...

 

tsolin01

Member
Sep 2, 2008
43
0
0
Originally posted by: flexy
Originally posted by: KMFJD
Ah Scenarios, how i love to hate them....group make up seems to be the following 80% of the time on my server
1 Tank
10 DPS
1 Healer

end result 500-100 Destruction win

Isn't it ironic how WAR was praised since, SUPPOSEDLY, it would solve all the "imbalances problems" WoW has

I have a HARD time against horde on our server, we literally lose 95 out of 100 BGs since Ally on our server INCREDIBLE SUCKS.

Now i play WAR (sometimes) and, at least i get something positive out of it, we (Destr) win MOST of the time (If a scen pops, that is

From that point of view, it's already proven that WAR PvP balance is at elast as broken as WoW's ...

Proven from what Tier 1 balance? again it's a toss up on who's going to win since you could have all lowbies on one side and all level 11s on another. It's hard enough to balance endgame but expecting perfect balance at all from lower levels is ridiculous. Given that WAR has pretty decent balance even at low levels. All the people saying Destruction wins most of the time needs to play with the order on my server... we get spanked regularly...

the game can't change what classes/levels are available at any given time to a scenario nor can it fix population issues...


 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Every class that relies on melee damage has trouble with roots. They're ALL broken. They don't properly break 50% of the time, and the fact that they have no immunity makes them way too powerful under every circumstance.

As far as Order v. Destruction, it is ENTIRELY based upon which classes each team fields. The more balanced team will ALWAYS win. By that I mean the team which has the widest distribution of classes. For instance, a team that is 100% healers will not win. A team that is 100% tanks will not win. A team that is 100% ranged DPS will not win. The team that wins is the one that has a good combination of all of those. Order on Phoenix Throne usually has a good combination and the scenarios are rarely a troucing either way. Yes, it does happen, but it happens on both sides. Hell, Destruction lost 500-80 last night in Temple twice in a row.

Team work and team balance is paramount in this game. If you have good teamwork (i.e. everyone attacks the same person), you can overcome a non-optimal balance. It really isn't hard. If your realm consistently loses, you need to work on your teamwork. Join a guild and queue up as a group. That way, you'll know there's at least one balanced, cooperative team in the mix. That'll go a long way toward helping your realm. If you see a lack of healers, roll one! Lack of tanks? Roll one! Destruction has a huge lack of healing healers on Phoenix Throne, so I've been leveling up a Zealot. It's all about overall balance and teamwork.

Oh, and for T2, Order DOES have more classes with roots. That's not an arguable statement, it's a fact.
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: tsolin01
I guess being on the destruction side and not having a root ability yet, I don't see the crazy rooting from the destro side. What I do see is lots from the Order side, mainly bright wizards. It helps that I do have an ability to break them every minute but sometimes I do get chain rooted, not that often though.

On my server at least, it seems like BW's are a much more popular class than sorcerers. We usually have more BW's than any other class, so I can see why destro feel like they're constantly stuck in fire cage, because it's probably true. Also, shadow warriors (another popular class) get an AOE root as well.

I guess we've learned to cope though, because despite the fact that we rarely have more than 1-2 tanks (and sometimes none) we still won about 80% of the T2 scenarios that I've done recently.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Originally posted by: Genx87
btw the one thing I do like about this game. You can level exclusively via pvp. Got a runpriest I am going to strictly play scenarios with and grab renown gear. If I do pve it will only be for PQ's.

Question on renown gear...I got the first pieces earlier in my career, through maybe rank 10 renown. I forgot about it for a while, mainly cause you have to go to keep after RR11. At 15 i visited a renown gear merchant at a keep and there was only a single item listed, boots, and they weren't worth much to me. Is something wrong there?
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Tor Anroc, High Pass Cemetery, Doom fist Crater

I haven't played Black Fire or Talabec Dam yet though...
 

VashHT

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2007
3,117
962
136
Originally posted by: Malladine
Originally posted by: Genx87
btw the one thing I do like about this game. You can level exclusively via pvp. Got a runpriest I am going to strictly play scenarios with and grab renown gear. If I do pve it will only be for PQ's.

Question on renown gear...I got the first pieces earlier in my career, through maybe rank 10 renown. I forgot about it for a while, mainly cause you have to go to keep after RR11. At 15 i visited a renown gear merchant at a keep and there was only a single item listed, boots, and they weren't worth much to me. Is something wrong there?

Whats your renown rank like? If its too low it wont show the items you don't qualify to use. at level 13/RR12 I was able to get shoulders, boots, gloves, helm, and two swords. I can't even use the swords until rank 14 but you have to be high enough renown rank to buy them I think. Also there are 2 renown merchants in each keep, one for armor and one for weapons, they're usually right next to each other though. I do like the fact that these merchants are part of the keep though, gives you more of a reason to take them.
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: Malladine
Originally posted by: Genx87
btw the one thing I do like about this game. You can level exclusively via pvp. Got a runpriest I am going to strictly play scenarios with and grab renown gear. If I do pve it will only be for PQ's.

Question on renown gear...I got the first pieces earlier in my career, through maybe rank 10 renown. I forgot about it for a while, mainly cause you have to go to keep after RR11. At 15 i visited a renown gear merchant at a keep and there was only a single item listed, boots, and they weren't worth much to me. Is something wrong there?

Did you look at both renown gear vendors? There's always 2 (one sells armor and the other sells weapons and accessories).

You can uncheck the "filter usable" box at the vendor to see what else they sell. IIRC, the second set of renown gear is available at rank 11-16 and the third set is 17-21.

Also, if you're a member of a guild that has access to the guild tavern, you can buy all the renown gear at the capitol city. No need to go to a keep.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
I'm talking RR, i'm 22/17 right now, i went at RR15 and there was only boots, nothing else, and I hadn't been to a renown gear merchant since RR10! Maybe I need to go to a different keep.

Okay i'll try the filter usable box

and yeah Vash, that is a good idea. The more reason to do RvR the better (currently I don't think there's enough).
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: Malladine
I'm talking RR, i'm 22/17 right now, i went at RR15 and there was only boots, nothing else, and I hadn't been to a renown gear merchant since RR10! Maybe I need to go to a different keep.

Was this a tier 3 keep? The renown vendors don't sell the lower level sets, and you probably didn't meet the requirements for the higher level sets yet because of your renown rank.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Mem, here's the break down for basic CC from what I recall in this game. Not talking the mastery skills, just the regular core skills.

AOE Roots
Destro
Sorc
Magus

Order
Bright Wizard
Engineer
Shadow Warrior
Sword Master

Knock Backs
Destro
Black Orc
Squig Herder

Order
Engineer
Shadow Warrior
Iron Break
Sword Master



As you can see, there is a 2 to 1 difference in favor of order for classes with the most effective crowd control abilities as core abilities in the game. Sure the CC that come from weapon attacks are able to be parried or blocked and this not as effective as a spell. But there is more of them for Order. The only slight advantage Destruction may have is that our two AoE roots only come from casters. So unless you work on your resistances or distruption stat up, there is a higher chance of being rooted when a root attack is made. However, order has MORE rooters available, so even if one person doesn't get everyone, it's easy enough to have some one else on the team root the remainder.

The bug with roots not breaking is just that. It's a BUG. It screws up both sides the same. I've once was rooted for literally 4 minutes from chain roots as I was playing my WE and trying to sneak around the edge of the fight while stealthed. I got behind a pillar and was about to look for a target that was low on health and running back from the main action, when *POP* I was rooted. From then on, it was nothing but root, root, root. I wasn't 18 at the time so I didn't have my anti root ability. Since I was behind an object, no one ever saw me. I was on vent with my guild laughing my ass off because of how disgusted I was at the situation. It's funny, but not really.


Also bear in mind, if you are trying to root people past level 18, be aware that every melee character, and yes that means your Warrior Priest, receives an ability at level 18 to break roots and snares. It is an ability that cancels any root or snare and gives an immunity to further roots and snares for 10 seconds. There is a 60 second cooldown after the immunity timer has worn off.

This is a big factor in tier 2 and up scens. Especially if your team is being routed backwards. Typically, if a team starts to fall back, they start popping root abilities like crazy. I know this and save my anti root ability so I can pop that and kill off as many people with my witch as I possibly can while the order team runs away. I know that a couple people I surprise often when they expect me to be rooted and I'm not as they are running away on low health.


Another thing to keep in mind, is most classes get a snaring ability of some sort, and at higher levels, either a stun or knockdown mastery skill. Some classes, like the Warrior Priest, get a knockdown by default. Using all crowd control skills effectively is a major key to winning.
 

tsolin01

Member
Sep 2, 2008
43
0
0
Chosen also get a knockback and AoE root at level 30. Yea one scenario I remember we didn't have any sorcs or magus so no aoe roots for us... needless to say we got picked apart by order with not much to do...
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Originally posted by: tsolin01
Chosen also get a knockback and AoE root at level 30. Yea one scenario I remember we didn't have any sorcs or magus so no aoe roots for us... needless to say we got picked apart by order with not much to do...

Ahh, but level 30 is a long way off. I haven't done any T4 pvp, mainly because I don't like being kicked that badly as a level 32 WE. I just know they didn't have anything earlier compared to the other classes.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Couple more questions:

If i'm too high for the T2 RvR area, how am I supposed to get to the keep to check the renown loot? Can I get there as a chicken or am I S.O.L.?

What's the immune period for a keep once it's under control and do you have to control all the minor targets on that map before you can attack it? It'd be nice to see a timer for these things...

And a comment, i think Warhammer has a very bright future

Oh, and I found my first world dungeon at lunch, Mount G something, in the Badlands. Looks frikken awesome inside, slightly too high for me right now though, I saw champions rank 22-27 at the start.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
yah Mal run over as a KFC =D
you can get what ya need. you just cant interfere with the RVR going on.. hence the KFC mechanic =D
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
1
0
Dude, just go RvR and get more renown. Also, don't forget to loot people after you kill them. By far, the best pieces I've seen in this game have come from RvR loot. Really insane stuff.
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
1
0
Originally posted by: CVSiN
yah Mal run over as a KFC =D
you can get what ya need. you just cant interfere with the RVR going on.. hence the KFC mechanic =D

Killed a chicken a couple days ago. I think it was the same thing. It was leaving a keep so it was probably just shopping. LOL. I was chasing it down a mountain somewhere in elf land.
 
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