Warlock, Hunter or Mage for PVP in WoW???

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: CKent
Well at least rogues require 300 resilience from epics and their pvp trinket to... oh wait...

I was bored on my mage just now and poking around at gear... did you know that with the new Arena 2 gear, my mage can have 9000 health (no gems, enchants, trinkets and only 1 ring (to rule them all)), around 2000 armor (without Ice Armor), tons of resilience, spell damage and spell crit (I didn't tally those up exactly as I was focusing on seeing how outrageous I could get my hp up). Now I'm a fire mage, so I lose survivability, but take those stats on a frost mage... do you think a rogue could ever beat that? I need to do that though... I want to feel like a warlock with that much health :evil:!

my brothers lock has 11K health
its kinda disgusting
he never dies


they were running a 15 warlock EOTS last night
OMG it was insane

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: CKent
Believe whatever you guys want, the back & forth is pointless. I suppose you think elderly women are as likely to buy a Maserati as they are a crown vic. Ignorance is bliss. Grats on the upcoming buffs. See you in Warhammer if you pick that one up when it's out

Thanks for that last stupid unrelated analogy. buh-bye.

Don't like it because it's relevant? It's ok. Go on and keep thinking you're the master of 2-button skill. Your class isn't overpowered, you are. You are a skilled, elite, invisible ninja. /soothe

So you're saying someone can 100-0 stunlock you to death as a 2-button rogue ? Explain please. Or have you never played a rogue and just assume it's possible ? You're trying to say they're god-like and takes little skill... stunlocking 100-0 is pretty difficult - tell us exactly what [2] buttons (or actually it's probably closer to 10 buttons AND assuming the other player is AFK) and in what order a rogue would have to push to do this... stop making things up. 1 more thing - how many times have you actually been 100-0 stunlocked ?

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: CKent
Believe whatever you guys want, the back & forth is pointless. I suppose you think elderly women are as likely to buy a Maserati as they are a crown vic. Ignorance is bliss. Grats on the upcoming buffs. See you in Warhammer if you pick that one up when it's out

Thanks for that last stupid unrelated analogy. buh-bye.

Don't like it because it's relevant? It's ok. Go on and keep thinking you're the master of 2-button skill. Your class isn't overpowered, you are. You are a skilled, elite, invisible ninja. /soothe

So you're saying someone can 100-0 stunlock you to death as a 2-button rogue ? Explain please. Or have you never played a rogue and just assume it's possible ? You're trying to say they're god-like and takes little skill... stunlocking 100-0 is pretty difficult - tell us exactly what [2] buttons (or actually it's probably closer to 10 buttons AND assuming the other player is AFK) and in what order a rogue would have to push to do this... stop making things up. 1 more thing - how many times have you actually been 100-0 stunlocked ?

I played a 60 rogue as my main for a while. At 60 there was actually a tradeoff of damage when stunlocking, making it much less "I Win".

2 buttons isn't meant literally, it's commentary on the amount of skill rogues take and a reference to the roguecraft videos.

100-0 stunlock isn't necessary; when you can shut down casters so effectively, annihilate enhancement shamans and avoid the standoff that is a bearform druid, your only concern is warriors - which is obvious from all the rogue crying on the official boards about warriors.

However the way to achieve it is using the duration of imp gouge after your initial stunlock to back off, restealth and reopen with CS. Or if you want to use cooldowns you can get really ugly. It's not like you have anything to fear from casters, with melee silence, ranged silence and spell invulnerability on top of a number of free escapes if you screw up.

 

[rh71]

All I really see in your responses is the proclaimed total disadvantage when facing rogues... (and an instance of a warrior stunlocking you to death somehow). One has to wonder why you're not equipping the insignia in either a BG or arenas. Cooldown you say (nevermind the new l33t 2-min medallion) ? Funny, a rogue's 100-0 stunlock-to-death requires long cooldowns too (AR). And probably only effective in a 1v1 situation which is not common in BGs/Arenas (if you're watching a flag/tower, l2rank1 spell or totems). BTW, a 5.5 sec gouge is not enough time to walk away, restealth, and come back to a still-stunned target. Countermeasure time. Not a 100-0 stunlock. I ask again, how many 100-0 stunlocks have you actually experienced at 70 ?

In the roguecraft vid, the gray-geared rogue was skilled at stunlock methods but the warrior was many times out of it too (while the rogue had CDs, etc.). Good time to drop some totems, wouldn't you say ? Once more, how many 100-0 stunlocks have you actually experienced at 70 ?

Lastly, rogues need the jump on people. A mage, hunter, etc. coming along while you're out of stealth can easily kite you to death. It's not all game-over for everyone else just because you PLAY a rogue... like you make it out to be. Well played mages (who know where the blink button is) can easily survive even if they get jumped first. If you're just arguing the shaman, let's forget the rock-paper-scissors balance for a second - I'd insist I've been well-kited before through my 30k+ honor kills as an alliance rogue (and 10k more as a lock). I've seen it all. I doubt you have learned it all.

I'm sick of all the "stunlock" talk when it was ACTUALLY just 100-60 or 100-40. All you need to do is get out of melee range (if you're not a warrior) then and do your thing. Has happened countless times. If you ask me, being combat makes it more difficult to even get close to a full stunlock death (compared to ass/subt burst dmg) and we're the ones with AR.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CKent
I played a 60 rogue as my main for a while. At 60 there was actually a tradeoff of damage when stunlocking, making it much less "I Win".

I don't think this is true at all. My damage was still fairly good at 60 and there were classes that I could stunlock. I didn't have as much AP as I would have preferred though, but I did have ample crit for my build. There's also a bit of a difference now, as before I "rolled" in epic gear and my gear was also 100% suited for my build, now the only thing I'm rolling in is the laughs with my horrible looking clown suit.

Originally posted by: CKent
2 buttons isn't meant literally, it's commentary on the amount of skill rogues take and a reference to the roguecraft videos.

Those roguecraft videos were quite amusing at times. I looked at those fights and at points said things along the lines of, "why does the guy just do this?" In other words, the opponents were barely suitable to use as prime examples of their class.

Originally posted by: CKent
100-0 stunlock isn't necessary; when you can shut down casters so effectively, annihilate enhancement shamans and avoid the standoff that is a bearform druid, your only concern is warriors - which is obvious from all the rogue crying on the official boards about warriors.

Shut down a caster... how so? When we actually get close enough to kick them? If a caster gets caught by kick, that's their own fault, everyone knows you don't pyroblast a non-CC'd rogue in PVP... that's just silly :Q! Although I did attempt to kick a frost mage in a BG on Friday... missed by a hair .

Originally posted by: CKent
However the way to achieve it is using the duration of imp gouge after your initial stunlock to back off, restealth and reopen with CS. Or if you want to use cooldowns you can get really ugly. It's not like you have anything to fear from casters, with melee silence, ranged silence and spell invulnerability on top of a number of free escapes if you screw up.

You forgot "* Mage casts Arcane Explosion", "You take 24 damage.", "Your stealth is removed." Things aren't nearly as text book as you make them out to be.

Oh and I'm working on my Paladin... anyone have a good example of a prot pally build? Is Seal of Command better for tanking than Seal of Righteousness? I'd like to go into Retribution for the +5% Parry, but I could go into Holy for the +damage to Seal of Righteouness. Hmm I might need to respec to clean up my build a bit, but I'll wait out and hopefully I'll get a free respec for whatever reason :laugh:.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Oh and I'm working on my Paladin... anyone have a good example of a prot pally build? Is Seal of Command better for tanking than Seal of Righteousness? I'd like to go into Retribution for the +5% Parry, but I could go into Holy for the +damage to Seal of Righteouness. Hmm I might need to respec to clean up my build a bit, but I'll wait out and hopefully I'll get a free respec for whatever reason :laugh:.

Seal of command is too inconsistent for tanking instances, but the seal isn't really important anyways. Your primary tools for aggro generation are going to be avenger's shield, holy shield and consecrate. You open with avenger's shield and just spam consecrate and holy shield until the fight is over. It requires a little more group discipline than a warrior tank because you have to keep all the mobs standing in the aoe to keep them off the healer, but if your group knows how to focus fire you shouldn't have any trouble at all.

As for your secondary tree, I always did holy for the healing interupt talent, and imroved SoR really helps your solo DPS.

Prot spec pallies destroy rogues btw. Just put up retribution aura, blessing of sanctity, and holy shield and laugh as they kill themselves with all the reflected damage. Casters, on the other hand, will make you hate your build.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ggnl
Seal of command is too inconsistent for tanking instances, but the seal isn't really important anyways. Your primary tools for aggro generation are going to be avenger's shield, holy shield and consecrate. You open with avenger's shield and just spam consecrate and holy shield until the fight is over. It requires a little more group discipline than a warrior tank because you have to keep all the mobs standing in the aoe to keep them off the healer, but if your group knows how to focus fire you shouldn't have any trouble at all.

As for your secondary tree, I always did holy for the healing interupt talent, and imroved SoR really helps your solo DPS.

Prot spec pallies destroy rogues btw. Just put up retribution aura, blessing of sanctity, and holy shield and laugh as they kill themselves with all the reflected damage. Casters, on the other hand, will make you hate your build.

That's what I was thinking, the holy damage would be higher, but I can't guarantee a proc with each hit. It's kind of like the difference between frostbrand weapon and flametongue weapon on a shaman (being that frostbrand is a chance where flametongue always procs).

Well, I guess I should mention this as well... my Paladin never plays alone. I level two characters at once and my Paladin currently plays with my Warlock. This is actually a very hard combo so far and is not very friendly in large fights. The problem with it is simply needing to focus on the paladin, but if I keep focusing on him too long, my warlock won't do any DPS and the mobs will overwhelm the paladin eventually. Having the holy tree as a subtree would be nice for this "soloing", but it's not very worthwhile for tanking, unless you need to heal yourself.

I guess Parry isn't a huge deal for Paladins as it is for Warriors, so I could ignore the Retribution tree. The only mistake I can see I made in my current spec is that I actually got Improved Devotion Aura . Should've just went with Redoubt, as it sure is lots of fun on mobs that hit fast!

EDIT: Here's one of the ideas that I'm batting around for later.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVEu0zZVhtIo0zxgqz

I do currently have the defense talent maxed out as it's been very good to me while leveling. Sometimes you simply run into a quest with higher level mobs but you're in the area and being able to take damage decently from them and still hit them (human paladin)... it's quite a bonus! Later on (in BC), it won't be such a big deal as it isn't that hard to find defense gear.

I think what I'm currently going to do is get the scarlet gear for him and probably put some intellect and stamina enchants on it. I find that one of my biggest problems is in fights with more than one mob, going very low in mana is very easy (and I use BoW on myself). Probably nothing huge, just some decent level enchants to give me a bit of a boost. I also need to work on the blacksmithing a bit so I can make some shield spikes as with holy shield and redoubt, I have quite a high block rate, so the mobs will take damage from the spike as well.

Here's my character's page:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Alleria&n=Darrox

EDIT 2:

I just realized that I don't have a necklace... I'll have to see if I saved any from when I was leveling jewelcrafting, if not.. maybe I'll throw a couple things my Shaman's way so he can make me something.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: ggnl
Seal of command is too inconsistent for tanking instances, but the seal isn't really important anyways. Your primary tools for aggro generation are going to be avenger's shield, holy shield and consecrate. You open with avenger's shield and just spam consecrate and holy shield until the fight is over. It requires a little more group discipline than a warrior tank because you have to keep all the mobs standing in the aoe to keep them off the healer, but if your group knows how to focus fire you shouldn't have any trouble at all.

As for your secondary tree, I always did holy for the healing interupt talent, and imroved SoR really helps your solo DPS.

Prot spec pallies destroy rogues btw. Just put up retribution aura, blessing of sanctity, and holy shield and laugh as they kill themselves with all the reflected damage. Casters, on the other hand, will make you hate your build.

That's what I was thinking, the holy damage would be higher, but I can't guarantee a proc with each hit. It's kind of like the difference between frostbrand weapon and flametongue weapon on a shaman (being that frostbrand is a chance where flametongue always procs).

Well, I guess I should mention this as well... my Paladin never plays alone. I level two characters at once and my Paladin currently plays with my Warlock. This is actually a very hard combo so far and is not very friendly in large fights. The problem with it is simply needing to focus on the paladin, but if I keep focusing on him too long, my warlock won't do any DPS and the mobs will overwhelm the paladin eventually. Having the holy tree as a subtree would be nice for this "soloing", but it's not very worthwhile for tanking, unless you need to heal yourself.

I guess Parry isn't a huge deal for Paladins as it is for Warriors, so I could ignore the Retribution tree. The only mistake I can see I made in my current spec is that I actually got Improved Devotion Aura . Should've just went with Redoubt, as it sure is lots of fun on mobs that hit fast!

EDIT: Here's one of the ideas that I'm batting around for later.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVEu0zZVhtIo0zxgqz

I do currently have the defense talent maxed out as it's been very good to me while leveling. Sometimes you simply run into a quest with higher level mobs but you're in the area and being able to take damage decently from them and still hit them (human paladin)... it's quite a bonus! Later on (in BC), it won't be such a big deal as it isn't that hard to find defense gear.

I think what I'm currently going to do is get the scarlet gear for him and probably put some intellect and stamina enchants on it. I find that one of my biggest problems is in fights with more than one mob, going very low in mana is very easy (and I use BoW on myself). Probably nothing huge, just some decent level enchants to give me a bit of a boost. I also need to work on the blacksmithing a bit so I can make some shield spikes as with holy shield and redoubt, I have quite a high block rate, so the mobs will take damage from the spike as well.

Here's my character's page:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Alleria&n=Darrox

EDIT 2:

I just realized that I don't have a necklace... I'll have to see if I saved any from when I was leveling jewelcrafting, if not.. maybe I'll throw a couple things my Shaman's way so he can make me something.

i honestly wouldent worry about half of that and id just level, much of if changes later on, unless you are playing on a new server and there is alot of low level players

when i levled another char i basicially soloed everything and ran myself through instances with my brothers 70 warlock

needs more + shadow
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Warsong&n=Apalla

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: ggnl
Seal of command is too inconsistent for tanking instances, but the seal isn't really important anyways. Your primary tools for aggro generation are going to be avenger's shield, holy shield and consecrate. You open with avenger's shield and just spam consecrate and holy shield until the fight is over. It requires a little more group discipline than a warrior tank because you have to keep all the mobs standing in the aoe to keep them off the healer, but if your group knows how to focus fire you shouldn't have any trouble at all.

As for your secondary tree, I always did holy for the healing interupt talent, and imroved SoR really helps your solo DPS.

Prot spec pallies destroy rogues btw. Just put up retribution aura, blessing of sanctity, and holy shield and laugh as they kill themselves with all the reflected damage. Casters, on the other hand, will make you hate your build.

That's what I was thinking, the holy damage would be higher, but I can't guarantee a proc with each hit. It's kind of like the difference between frostbrand weapon and flametongue weapon on a shaman (being that frostbrand is a chance where flametongue always procs).

Well, I guess I should mention this as well... my Paladin never plays alone. I level two characters at once and my Paladin currently plays with my Warlock. This is actually a very hard combo so far and is not very friendly in large fights. The problem with it is simply needing to focus on the paladin, but if I keep focusing on him too long, my warlock won't do any DPS and the mobs will overwhelm the paladin eventually. Having the holy tree as a subtree would be nice for this "soloing", but it's not very worthwhile for tanking, unless you need to heal yourself.

I guess Parry isn't a huge deal for Paladins as it is for Warriors, so I could ignore the Retribution tree. The only mistake I can see I made in my current spec is that I actually got Improved Devotion Aura . Should've just went with Redoubt, as it sure is lots of fun on mobs that hit fast!

EDIT: Here's one of the ideas that I'm batting around for later.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVEu0zZVhtIo0zxgqz

I do currently have the defense talent maxed out as it's been very good to me while leveling. Sometimes you simply run into a quest with higher level mobs but you're in the area and being able to take damage decently from them and still hit them (human paladin)... it's quite a bonus! Later on (in BC), it won't be such a big deal as it isn't that hard to find defense gear.

I think what I'm currently going to do is get the scarlet gear for him and probably put some intellect and stamina enchants on it. I find that one of my biggest problems is in fights with more than one mob, going very low in mana is very easy (and I use BoW on myself). Probably nothing huge, just some decent level enchants to give me a bit of a boost. I also need to work on the blacksmithing a bit so I can make some shield spikes as with holy shield and redoubt, I have quite a high block rate, so the mobs will take damage from the spike as well.

Here's my character's page:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Alleria&n=Darrox

EDIT 2:

I just realized that I don't have a necklace... I'll have to see if I saved any from when I was leveling jewelcrafting, if not.. maybe I'll throw a couple things my Shaman's way so he can make me something.

i honestly wouldent worry about half of that and id just level, much of if changes later on, unless you are playing on a new server and there is alot of low level players

when i levled another char i basicially soloed everything and ran myself through instances with my brothers 70 warlock

needs more + shadow
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Warsong&n=Apalla

Yeah, your ability to tank is going to increase greatly at level 40 and 50 when you get holy shield and avenger's shield. You might want to re-evaluate then.

Also, have you considered going holy and healbotting instead of tanking? I dual box occasionally with my roommate's computer and I always just heal with my pally even though she's a ret build right now. Seems like it would make even more sense with a warlock because of life tap and the overall efficiency of pally heals.

My pally

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
i honestly wouldent worry about half of that and id just level, much of if changes later on, unless you are playing on a new server and there is alot of low level players

when i levled another char i basicially soloed everything and ran myself through instances with my brothers 70 warlock

needs more + shadow
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Warsong&n=Apalla

Well, I'm always the man with the master plan while leveling and I always hate spending gold on a respec. I think I've actually respec'd my Paladin once (made a dumb mistake) and then maybe played him for a level. I pretty much just go through levels but try to reach efficiency in my leveling and not having to rely on others. But I'll be running myself through instances using my warrior for my paladin and my shaman for my warlock (dps and healer accounts). I'll do SM once I get the quest as my Paladin would love the sword of omen.

Originally posted by: ggnl
Yeah, your ability to tank is going to increase greatly at level 40 and 50 when you get holy shield and avenger's shield. You might want to re-evaluate then.

Also, have you considered going holy and healbotting instead of tanking? I dual box occasionally with my roommate's computer and I always just heal with my pally even though she's a ret build right now. Seems like it would make even more sense with a warlock because of life tap and the overall efficiency of pally heals.

My pally

Well, I've thought about just healing and the only problem with that is... my goal is to have two party members be a viable force by themselves. Until my Warlock is able to get something like a felguard, I don't see him being powerful enough to take on multiple mobs like my paladin does. So until that point, I don't see something like healing a voidwalker being a useful thing.

Although I must admit, playing a prot paladin and an affliction warlock at the same time is probably my hardest combination. The Paladin requires a decent amount of control and literally the only easy thing I can do with my warlock is hitting hellfire while fighting a bunch of mobs . It wouldn't be so bad if my paladin at least had an interrupt.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis
i honestly wouldent worry about half of that and id just level, much of if changes later on, unless you are playing on a new server and there is alot of low level players

when i levled another char i basicially soloed everything and ran myself through instances with my brothers 70 warlock

needs more + shadow
http://armory.worldofwarcraft....xml?r=Warsong&n=Apalla

Well, I'm always the man with the master plan while leveling and I always hate spending gold on a respec. I think I've actually respec'd my Paladin once (made a dumb mistake) and then maybe played him for a level. I pretty much just go through levels but try to reach efficiency in my leveling and not having to rely on others. But I'll be running myself through instances using my warrior for my paladin and my shaman for my warlock (dps and healer accounts). I'll do SM once I get the quest as my Paladin would love the sword of omen.

Originally posted by: ggnl
Yeah, your ability to tank is going to increase greatly at level 40 and 50 when you get holy shield and avenger's shield. You might want to re-evaluate then.

Also, have you considered going holy and healbotting instead of tanking? I dual box occasionally with my roommate's computer and I always just heal with my pally even though she's a ret build right now. Seems like it would make even more sense with a warlock because of life tap and the overall efficiency of pally heals.

My pally

Well, I've thought about just healing and the only problem with that is... my goal is to have two party members be a viable force by themselves. Until my Warlock is able to get something like a felguard, I don't see him being powerful enough to take on multiple mobs like my paladin does. So until that point, I don't see something like healing a voidwalker being a useful thing.

Although I must admit, playing a prot paladin and an affliction warlock at the same time is probably my hardest combination. The Paladin requires a decent amount of control and literally the only easy thing I can do with my warlock is hitting hellfire while fighting a bunch of mobs . It wouldn't be so bad if my paladin at least had an interrupt.

once yoru lock gets to 30 you can eaisily take 2+ mobs at the same time, dots
+ fear's + drain life

basicially you just drain tanb everything, use your sucubus, turn all her stuff off and have her auto attack stuff, and when you need mana just take it from her

 

[Aikouka]

Dark Pact requires level 40 though .

That's the thing.. my lock can do multiple mobs... my paladin can do multiple mobs, but together... when things are hairy, things do not "scale" well. Meaning that two classes that do a good job at multiple mobs cannot handle a larger amount when put together if I'm playing them both. Separate with proficient players... they could handle it. My warrior and priest had no problems with this, because they were a good team at capturing aggro and keeping healing up. I predict my hunter+druid group will have problems like this too... the pet will simply not be good enough at keeping aggro unless I get.. what is it... an owl that can use screech on multiple mobs?

 

[kainlongshot]

I'm going to take a shot at this. . .

It doesn't sound like the mob isn't scaling well nor is it an issue of the a bad combo. I think it really comes down to coordination. I admit I'm starting to dual box (main desktop and laptop). And I'm noticing that certain combos just lend themselves easier to boxing. Dual shamans (one elemental and one enhancement), 2 hunters (simplest by far, just point and shoot), warrior and priest (healbot and tank), and 2 mages (maximum AOE, maximum CC). I'm not questioning your skill (you know more about WoW from past posts than I ever will) but some class combos have a certain synergy. Its completely possible for a Paladin and Lock setup to work, but you are going to have to work for it.

The problem I see is this: regardless of what people think of a lock or "I win" class its actually a very difficult class to have control. You have dots (some instant, some not), cooldown fear, a pet that each have their skills, and your generic spell stuff. Not to mention AOE, mana drain, life tap, etc. Even for one person a warlock can be difficult to control. On top of that a lock can easily over take a paladin and his own pet in aggro. So again the lock can be a difficult to class to play and setup in a dual box fashion.

The Paladin is a bit easier, heal and smash. Most spells are instant, you wear plate, heal and pretty much never die.

I think if you juggle your order as well as try to unclutter your ui or both you might have more success. You're warlock is your main damage dealer. As much as I want a paladin to kill things, its going to be slow. Control your warlock like he's your main and use your paladin to heal, buff, aura, and take out the occasional mob. You just said your lock has no problems facing multiple mobs and a locks aggro can usually eclipse a healadin's. Try that and see how that works.

 

[KMFJD]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=776 new expansion details?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
It doesn't sound like the mob isn't scaling well nor is it an issue of the a bad combo. I think it really comes down to coordination. I admit I'm starting to dual box (main desktop and laptop). And I'm noticing that certain combos just lend themselves easier to boxing. Dual shamans (one elemental and one enhancement), 2 hunters (simplest by far, just point and shoot), warrior and priest (healbot and tank), and 2 mages (maximum AOE, maximum CC). I'm not questioning your skill (you know more about WoW from past posts than I ever will) but some class combos have a certain synergy. Its completely possible for a Paladin and Lock setup to work, but you are going to have to work for it.

Well, it almost always depends on what I'm fighting. I can fight 3-4 melee mobs and have no problem, a Paladin excels at taking physical damage. The area where I get into trouble is when I'm fighting ranged (especially casters), but the other groups had a way of dealing with it. My warrior+priest combo literally just beat everything up as my priest didn't go OOM easily (holy/disc priest), my shaman+mage group could just counterspell ranged casters or polymorph ranged DPS while taking care of melee DPS (as ranged tends to run away a lot). The warlock+paladin mix is very good at taking on a single opponent, the mob will die very fast and with only minimal effort as I use a succubus buffed with BoM (literally doubles my succubus' attack power) and my warlock just throws an immolate and corruption... maybe with some wanding in there too.

I'm certainly not the best paladin or warlock by far, but I'd assume that solo, I'd probably perform a lot better. I also need to remember to switch to conc aura when I'm getting further down.

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
The problem I see is this: regardless of what people think of a lock or "I win" class its actually a very difficult class to have control. You have dots (some instant, some not), cooldown fear, a pet that each have their skills, and your generic spell stuff. Not to mention AOE, mana drain, life tap, etc. Even for one person a warlock can be difficult to control. On top of that a lock can easily over take a paladin and his own pet in aggro. So again the lock can be a difficult to class to play and setup in a dual box fashion.

Definitely, there's actually quite a bit to the warlock class. I mean they can be played mediocrely and still perform well, but the people that know all the little nuances are the grand performers of the class. All of the abilities are what typically pose the most problem. On my shaman+mage combo, all I had to do was hit fireball and wait for it to cast. On my warlock, I need to manage my pet, start casting immolate, set the pet to attack, once it's done, cast corruption. This is all just a standard fight, but when things get hairy, you'd want to add in: drain life, drain mana, life tap, siphon life, health funnel, fear, curse of exhaustion, curse of tongues, etc. Then as mentioned, each pet has a good tactic used and rarely do you have a fight where one pet is definitely the superior choice. Such as having a fight with a caster and melee... do you use a succubus or a felhunter? DPS or the ability to silence and eat debuffs/buffs.

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
The Paladin is a bit easier, heal and smash. Most spells are instant, you wear plate, heal and pretty much never die.

Well, Paladins typically have a bit more to them in the difficult situations. Switching your aura, using your immunities wisely all count toward whether or not you'll survive. Then you need to add in your pitiful mana supply, as there's very little protection gear designed for Paladins. I will most likely grab some of the gear from Scarlet Monastary and Razorfen Downs and probably put some mana/int enchants and stam enchants on them. Mana isn't a big problem in small "1"-on-1 fights (as I use blessing of wisdom), but it becomes a much bigger issue when you start use consecration. Then I'll probably outfit more pieces with armor patches that will give me quite an insane amount of mitigation. Right now I have 45% and just the aegis of the scarlet commander will add about 1000 armor (my current shield only has 600-ish).

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
I think if you juggle your order as well as try to unclutter your ui or both you might have more success. You're warlock is your main damage dealer. As much as I want a paladin to kill things, its going to be slow. Control your warlock like he's your main and use your paladin to heal, buff, aura, and take out the occasional mob. You just said your lock has no problems facing multiple mobs and a locks aggro can usually eclipse a healadin's. Try that and see how that works.

I use the Paladin as a tank to avoid having to worry about healing the warlock. This is alright in most situations as the paladin can keep aggro by just using seal of righteousness. I thought about using a felguard as a "tank" and letting my Paladin heal him, but that'd require level 50 at least, so I still have some time to go. Warlocks can fight multiple opponents, but they're still limited in how. Typically a mob can be feared, but you need to worry about possible adds and such. The Paladin is also decent at multiple mobs, but both classes require a lot of fenangling to handle it and it's practically too much together.

 

[QuantumPion]

There is a guy on my server that quad boxes 4 shadow priests. He had each computer linked to the same keyboard I believe and just melted faces quaddamage style.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
There is a guy on my server that quad boxes 4 shadow priests. He had each computer linked to the same keyboard I believe and just melted faces quaddamage style.

Sounds quite extreme, although you might have trouble if you want to manage your fears correctly.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
There is a guy on my server that quad boxes 4 shadow priests. He had each computer linked to the same keyboard I believe and just melted faces quaddamage style.

Sounds quite extreme, although you might have trouble if you want to manage your fears correctly.

You don't need to fear when you have 4 mind flays w/ VT+VE. Not to mention 4 mind blasts and SW's.

 

[Aikouka]

Elite mobs?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Elite mobs?

having played a SP and grouped with many on it, i can say that if you had 4 of them with dots up VE/VT + MF you would be doing an absured ammnt of damage,

at 70 most decent geared SPs have 700+ shadow damage SWp ticks for over 400 as well as MF, MB will crit over 2K

you will have misery up so everything does 10% more damage,

VE will be healing you for about 400 every tick with everyones stuff up and you will get 200 ish mana back from VT every tick

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Elite mobs?

having played a SP and grouped with many on it, i can say that if you had 4 of them with dots up VE/VT + MF you would be doing an absured ammnt of damage,

at 70 most decent geared SPs have 700+ shadow damage SWp ticks for over 400 as well as MF, MB will crit over 2K

you will have misery up so everything does 10% more damage,

VE will be healing you for about 400 every tick with everyones stuff up and you will get 200 ish mana back from VT every tick

That's simply too ideal. Having leveled four characters from 60 to 70 in pairs, I can tell you that easy situations like that are the most common, but when it comes to elite fights, the elites in BC (in my opinion) are harder than standard elites that you "met" in Azeroth. A weak elite wouldn't be a problem for 4 shadow priests, but one of the stronger elites? I don't see it working as it may not be as simple as constantly cast on one mob.

It kind of reminds me of that 5-man Loatheb fight with 1 warrior, 1 paladin and 3 priests I believe?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Elite mobs?

having played a SP and grouped with many on it, i can say that if you had 4 of them with dots up VE/VT + MF you would be doing an absured ammnt of damage,

at 70 most decent geared SPs have 700+ shadow damage SWp ticks for over 400 as well as MF, MB will crit over 2K

you will have misery up so everything does 10% more damage,

VE will be healing you for about 400 every tick with everyones stuff up and you will get 200 ish mana back from VT every tick

That's simply too ideal. Having leveled four characters from 60 to 70 in pairs, I can tell you that easy situations like that are the most common, but when it comes to elite fights, the elites in BC (in my opinion) are harder than standard elites that you "met" in Azeroth. A weak elite wouldn't be a problem for 4 shadow priests, but one of the stronger elites? I don't see it working as it may not be as simple as constantly cast on one mob.

It kind of reminds me of that 5-man Loatheb fight with 1 warrior, 1 paladin and 3 priests I believe?

depends on if its fearable or not

and it was a war a paly 2 SPs and a lock

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
depends on if its fearable or not

and it was a war a paly 2 SPs and a lock

I thought there was a lock in there, but I couldn't remember for sure. Definitely was an interesting way to do it. Lock was most likely used for Curse of Shadows I'd assume.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Anubis
depends on if its fearable or not

and it was a war a paly 2 SPs and a lock

I thought there was a lock in there, but I couldn't remember for sure. Definitely was an interesting way to do it. Lock was most likely used for Curse of Shadows I'd assume.

that and lock dots trigger VE/VT all shadow damage does
and with misery/shadow vounrability all shadow damage does 15% more

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
that and lock dots trigger VE/VT all shadow damage does
and with misery/shadow vounrability all shadow damage does 15% more

The second part, yes.

The first part, not so much:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=15286
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34914