WARM: General Motors Ups Warranty Coverage

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TekDemon

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2001
2,296
1
81
Originally posted by: houe
With the warranty you'll be guaranteed to be driving a GM car for a long time which I'm not so sure is a good thing.

lol...the warranty is transferable
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
Originally posted by: cparent
BTW: I love the anti american car company posters in this thread. They make me laugh. I hope that they dont live in the U.S. or call themselves americans. Like the "fords still in business?" guy. Maybe he hasnt heard but Ford has the number one world wide selling vehicle for the past 20 or so years.

This statement is really laughable.
Just because someone won't buy a crappy domestic product doesn't make him/her unpatriotic.
Quite opposite, people who are bying the inferior product, choosing it over competition on the sole basis of fake patriotism are the ones to blame.
The domestic manufacturers were riding the SUV wave of easy profits for way too long, totally neglecting the car segment.
Add to this the neglected plants, totally out of control Unions, and incompetent management.
They have to experience a shock of bankruptcy in order to become lean and mean=competitive again.
The long warranty gimmick won't change the fundamentals.
It will keep the showrooms open for a short while until the novelty factor wears off.
Only the total revamp of their business model will allow them to come back.
If not, the Japanese and Koreans will demolish them on their own turf.
BTW, I drive a Ford.
 

cparent

Member
Jun 28, 2005
139
0
0
Originally posted by: vadp
Originally posted by: cparent
BTW: I love the anti american car company posters in this thread. They make me laugh. I hope that they dont live in the U.S. or call themselves americans. Like the "fords still in business?" guy. Maybe he hasnt heard but Ford has the number one world wide selling vehicle for the past 20 or so years.

This statement is really laughable.
Just because someone won't buy a crappy domestic product doesn't make him/her unpatriotic.
Quite opposite, people who are bying the inferior product, choosing it over competition on the sole basis of fake patriotism are the ones to blame.
The domestic manufacturers were riding the SUV wave of easy profits for way too long, totally neglecting the car segment.
Plus the neglected plants, out of control Unions, incompetent management.
They have to experience a shock of bankruptcy in order to become lean and mean=competitive again.
The long warranty gimmick won't change the fundamentals.
It will keep the showrooms open for a short while until the novelty factor wears off.
Only the total revamp of their business model will allow them to come back.
If not, the Japanese and Koreans will demolish them on their own turf.
BTW, I drive a Ford.

I'm not about to get into it with you, because I dont deal with people like you and this isnt the forum to do so. however.

Crappy domestic? Go check JD power. Americans make higher quality products than anyone including the japanese, aside from lexus. you lose.
neglecting the car market? proof? I have proof that we build better cars. Faster cars. More reliable cars. what do you have besides words?
Plus the neglected plants, out of control Unions, incompetent management???!!! proof? How about you THANK those unions for YOUR benefits seeing that that's what unions do. thank them for YOUR pay. YOUR vacations. be you in a union or not. know your history, pal.
fake patriotism???!!! - Ford alone employs 400,000 people in the U.S. How many people does honda or toyota employ? How much do they get paid here? How much of that money is being spent here in the U.S. as opposed to japan?

Try educating yourself. I have.
 

Greg04

Golden Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,224
1
76
Originally posted by: vadp
Originally posted by: cparent
BTW: I love the anti american car company posters in this thread. They make me laugh. I hope that they dont live in the U.S. or call themselves americans. Like the "fords still in business?" guy. Maybe he hasnt heard but Ford has the number one world wide selling vehicle for the past 20 or so years.

This statement is really laughable.
Just because someone won't buy a crappy domestic product doesn't make him/her unpatriotic.
Quite opposite, people who are bying the inferior product, choosing it over competition on the sole basis of fake patriotism are the ones to blame.
The domestic manufacturers were riding the SUV wave of easy profits for way too long, totally neglecting the car segment.
Add to this the neglected plants, totally out of control Unions, and incompetent management.
They have to experience a shock of bankruptcy in order to become lean and mean=competitive again.
The long warranty gimmick won't change the fundamentals.
It will keep the showrooms open for a short while until the novelty factor wears off.
Only the total revamp of their business model will allow them to come back.
If not, the Japanese and Koreans will demolish them on their own turf.
BTW, I drive a Ford.

Re: not buying American products: My older brother used to be die-hard American car guy and bought one of the last Pontiac Firebirds...when he found out it was built in Ontario Canada, he sold it and bought an Accord.
 

Fiebre

Junior Member
Jul 18, 2005
13
0
0
Originally posted by: cparent
Originally posted by: vadp
Originally posted by: cparent
BTW: I love the anti american car company posters in this thread. They make me laugh. I hope that they dont live in the U.S. or call themselves americans. Like the "fords still in business?" guy. Maybe he hasnt heard but Ford has the number one world wide selling vehicle for the past 20 or so years.

This statement is really laughable.
Just because someone won't buy a crappy domestic product doesn't make him/her unpatriotic.
Quite opposite, people who are bying the inferior product, choosing it over competition on the sole basis of fake patriotism are the ones to blame.
The domestic manufacturers were riding the SUV wave of easy profits for way too long, totally neglecting the car segment.
Plus the neglected plants, out of control Unions, incompetent management.
They have to experience a shock of bankruptcy in order to become lean and mean=competitive again.
The long warranty gimmick won't change the fundamentals.
It will keep the showrooms open for a short while until the novelty factor wears off.
Only the total revamp of their business model will allow them to come back.
If not, the Japanese and Koreans will demolish them on their own turf.
BTW, I drive a Ford.

I'm not about to get into it with you, because I dont deal with people like you and this isnt the forum to do so. however.

Crappy domestic? Go check JD power. Americans make higher quality products than anyone including the japanese, aside from lexus. you lose.
neglecting the car market? proof? I have proof that we build better cars. Faster cars. More reliable cars. what do you have besides words?
Plus the neglected plants, out of control Unions, incompetent management???!!! proof? How about you THANK those unions for YOUR benefits seeing that that's what unions do. thank them for YOUR pay. YOUR vacations. be you in a union or not. know your history, pal.
fake patriotism???!!! - Ford alone employs 400,000 people in the U.S. How many people does honda or toyota employ? How much do they get paid here? How much of that money is being spent here in the U.S. as opposed to japan?

Try educating yourself. I have.


I could not disagree with you more. Unions were very useful in the early 1900's, but now they are causing far more damage than anything else. They will not make concessions with their employers to allow the company to survive for a while until it gets back on track. It even happened to my father with the teamsters. The company asked them to take a pay cut; my father was willing, but the unions refused. The next day the company went under and they were all unemployed. Now their current target is the auto industry and I only hope it fares better than the previous matches. I cannot remember the name of the song, but there is a rather good one (kind of an oldie) that describes exactly what the union management is after. Also, I am from PA and have witnessed unions bring down two companies in my home town. It's really sad that some companies have to deal with them when we are now on an international stage.

Edit: Oh and GM and Ford have totally forgotten the car market. They may make them faster and more reliable (not a bad thing), but the market doesn't care about fast now. They want hybrids and other ways of beating the high gas prices. Amazing that Toyota and Honda figured that out years ago and domestic companies are still scrambling to make it widespread.

Ford's management has been some of the worst I have seen. Namely Ford himself. He has just stepped down. Now that he is done playing around with the company I believe that they might have a chance to set themselves right. New guy is from Boeing and one of the key players in their success.

And JD power may say that car companies in the US make high quality products. Maybe they do, but look at Consumer Reports. I am not saying CR is accurate at all (I never trust them), but their ratings reflect popular opinion in the market. So why would everyone believe that domestic cars are of poor quality? If they are of good quality now then they need to do something to let it be known.

And never ever say someone is anti-American for their opinions. That is the most ignorant kind of comment someone can make. A little history lesson might do you well.
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
Originally posted by: cparent
Crappy domestic? Go check JD power. Americans make higher quality products than anyone including the japanese, aside from lexus. you lose.
neglecting the car market? proof? I have proof that we build better cars. Faster cars. More reliable cars. what do you have besides words?
Plus the neglected plants, out of control Unions, incompetent management???!!! proof?
Proof?
If you're capable of educating yourself, and I always admire those who can, go google for profits/losses figures, posted by the major auto manufacturers last year.
Facts speak for themselves.
The JD Power? The Japanese and now Koreans in most cases are beating the domestics.
Besides, the JD Power initial quality study surveys car owners on ?problems? encountered within their first 90 days of ownership. Most people understand that a car that?s reliable for 90 days isn?t necessarily reliable beyond that.
What cracks me up is the failure of some here to grasp that the
"anti-Ford/GM" perception is this:

1) We hate what the companies have done to run themselves into the ground.
2) We hate having to spend out money elsewhere.
3) We WANT them to pull their collective heads out of their *sses and get it together.

I'd love to spend my money at "home" if I could, but the reality is that these major entities *uck.
 

vadp

Senior member
Aug 31, 2006
341
0
0
Originally posted by: Fiebre
Ford's management has been some of the worst I have seen. Namely Ford himself. He has just stepped down. Now that he is done playing around with the company I believe that they might have a chance to set themselves right. New guy is from Boeing and one of the key players in their success.
The new guy doesn't look too promising though.
Here is a good article that provides an interesting scoop on the former Boeing excecutive.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2200
 

nealh

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 1999
7,078
1
0
FYI:..does this not seem like history repeating

remember the 70's..well some of you can not..US cars were overall an inferrior gas guzzling product....

well guess what..once again the US automaker is one step behind..large gas guzzling trucks and overall average quality at best again....

They never seem to get it...unions or no union..make a quality product, back it correctly and pay attention to the market not a segment..ie SUV

It really is sad but not surprising...I was reading Time a few months back and some of the quotes from the US auto exec..today were eerily the same as 20yrs ago
 

Fiebre

Junior Member
Jul 18, 2005
13
0
0
Originally posted by: vadp
Originally posted by: Fiebre
Ford's management has been some of the worst I have seen. Namely Ford himself. He has just stepped down. Now that he is done playing around with the company I believe that they might have a chance to set themselves right. New guy is from Boeing and one of the key players in their success.
The new guy doesn't look too promising though.
Here is a good article that provides an interesting scoop on the former Boeing excecutive.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2200


I just read that article, but I don't think it is too enlightening. He just makes an assumption that the new guy is a naive mid-westerner then goes on with analogies and philisophical rhetoric. I just didn't see any facts or much of anything. Though I do agree with his opinions on unions and their effect on the companies.
 

Bekker

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2000
1,330
0
0
Warning: Long and probably boring comments .... proceed at your own risk.

It has beern fun reading some of the comments here. I wanted to reply to a few not quoted here.

1. The idea that a long warranty is used for bad products as learned in marketing is perhaps misunderstood. I was a marketing prof for many years and the fact is that very long warranties are not used only by low quality products. That generalization cannot be made. Sometimes the product in question is attempting to establish itself to be of high quality and offers as proof the length of its warranty. This happens mainly in what is called a "high-involvement" type of purchase in which the buyer feels considerable psychological, financial, physical, performance, risk when buying. The longer warranty helps to remove some of the doubt or perceived risk. Hyuandai and Kia are two companies that use the warranty in this way. Who in their right mind would want to risk buying another potential Yugo, for example, unless they had great assurance theyt would be protected. So, use it to win trust for new, unknown brands/products. Normally, the product or brand using this strategy must develop a good product or consumers will quickly learn the brand is so bad that even the warranty is not sufficient to overcome the bad product and warranty cost to the manufacturer will be so expensive they cannot continue to offer it. Hyuandi has used this approach excellently, and they have improved quality faster than any brand I can recall in recent history.

On the other hand, some clearly inferior products offer strong warranties when the producer won't be around to honor them. For examples, consider all the nonsense offers made through TV by such firms as "Ronco," various cuttlery brands. questionable tools and so forth.

I have bored everyone enough re this point. The point is that long warranties can be used by high or low quality brands, but there will be a tendency for high quality brands to lower warranties over time if they feel they are no longer needed because their quality has been well established. Consumers will not pay a premium for what is considered not necessary. Honda and Toyota do not offer long warranties for this reason.

2. In GM's case, the increased warranty length related to supposedly improved quality can actually be the result of improved quality, or it might be being used in lieu of other price incentives that would be more costly. For example, employee pricing by Chrysler might give $7k off a truck, which is going to be used by all buyers, so total cost is $7k x number of buyers. GM's warranty may be a calculated gamble in which it has not improved quality but gambles that the total additional repair costs due to warranty length will be less than $7k a vehicle; many drive train repairs can be made before $7k is reached. I bought a 98 Aurora and got quotes on extended warranty coverage from GM. I cannot remember the exact costs, but eeven the dealer said "what do they know we do not" when we compared the cost of the 100k warranty to the 75k. It went from something like $1450 to $3100+ for the added 25k miles. But, even if GM offwered the $3100+ extended warranty "free" with new car purchase, that is still well below $7k employee pricing or other rebate progams.

3. Idea that extended powertrain only warranty is not worth that much ... on the Aurora, which was GM certified, within 4 months of purchase head gasket blew (many $ repair), followed by rear main seal, radiator, etc. Just recently I had to have the cv joint and alterrnator replaced at a warranty cost of about $1300. On a Caddy I had they thought the oil pan gasket had a leak .. repair cost for that would have been over $2k. If replaced each strut or shock over $500. Transmissions on newer GM trucks are over $4k. Yes, maybe there will be no power train warranties, but get ready to bend over and drop pants if there are any.

4. Sales problems for Ford and GM are probably not as related to lower perceived quality as to very unispired designs. Extremely poor and not updated often enough. Chrysler's view that they want to instill a love it or hate it passion has paid off substantially as compared to Ford and GM's seemingly "don't offend anyone" strategy has resulted in very boring designs that increasingly appeal mainly older buyers.

5. All USA producers seem to have really overestimated how much buyers will pay for their new rides. Check pricing and it seems that high 20's to mid 30's and above is typical. Consequently, loan terms now run as high as 6 years, during which many will have buyers upside down. They cannot buy new again if they are so upside down they cannot get out of the old.

That's too much from me. Thread is interesting.
 

icefhishin

Member
May 15, 2005
78
0
61
thanks bekker, i found your post very enlightening and since my wife and i are in the market for a new vehicle i appreciate your opinion in this matter.
 

nealh

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 1999
7,078
1
0
Originally posted by: Bekker
3. Idea that extended powertrain only warranty is not worth that much ... on the Aurora, which was GM certified, within 4 months of purchase head gasket blew (many $ repair), followed by rear main seal, radiator, etc. Just recently I had to have the cv joint and alterrnator replaced at a warranty cost of about $1300. On a Caddy I had they thought the oil pan gasket had a leak .. repair cost for that would have been over $2k. If replaced each strut or shock over $500. Transmissions on newer GM trucks are over $4k. Yes, maybe there will be no power train warranties, but get ready to bend over and drop pants if there are any.

.
Most manufacturers have a solid Powertrain warranty the fact GM extended shows nothing with regards to their qulaity and to me is still gimmicky..does that mean having it is bad no!

Your repair of head gasket at 4mo is covered by any of the manufacturers in the 3/36 warranty....

The others repairs were they done within 36000 miles or later

Struts and shock are not as far as I am aware covered under pwoertrain, gasket repair..I have no idea but sounds like it should be

Your issues are why I would never buy a GM, Ford, Chrysler product....I owned a Ford becaue of my wife(Topaz..man I got screwed by a dealership in CT, the oil pump went out..paid $400 15yrs to fix this..93 days later less than a 1000mi, samething..dealer refuse d to cover it wanted another $400..called Ford sorry cant help you, went to another dealer, they said looks like a reurb pump not new like I paid but they refused to put in writing so I could sue the prior dealership in small claims court..so no Ford stuff. BTW, I promised Ford when I called them back and thanked them for their help I would never in my life buy there cars....I am proud to say my last 6 cars have not been Ford)


US automakers just do not care about their customers..most of my cars are upscale with longer bumper-to-bumper warranties...just prefer the piece of mind, get better service at Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes(no mor eof these since quality is going down to Chrysler level), Nissan, Audi...never owned Lexus

 

Bekker

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2000
1,330
0
0
as aquoted from nealth:

Your repair of head gasket at 4mo is covered by any of the manufacturers in the 3/36 warranty....

The others repairs were they done within 36000 miles or later

Struts and shock are not as far as I am aware covered under pwoertrain, gasket repair..I have no idea but sounds like it should be

Your issues are why I would never buy a GM, Ford, Chrysler product....I owned a Ford becaue of my wife(Topaz..man I got screwed by a dealership in CT, the oil pump went out..paid $400 15yrs to fix this..93 days later less than a 1000mi, samething..dealer refuse d to cover it wanted another $400..called Ford sorry cant help you, went to another dealer, they said looks like a reurb pump not new like I paid but they refused to put in writing so I could sue the prior dealership in small claims court..so no Ford stuff. BTW, I promised Ford when I called them back and thanked them for their help I would never in my life buy there cars....I am proud to say my last 6 cars have not been Ford)

You are right re the headgasket had I purchased it new. I did not and the 36k warranty had expired so my extended warranty had to cover it and all other repairs.

I disagree that US manufacturers do not care. All have shareholders to answer to and they have to produce or face their wrath. Bye bye to Ford as CEO as a result of piss poor management ... but bringing in an aerospace person as CEO shows a lack of commitment to a marketing philosophy of satisfying the consumer and a return to a production philosophy of cutting cost. If you are selling something people do not want, lowering its cost does little to make it more appealing to the originally targeted buyers, although it may bring in other targets.

I just feel they don't know how to satisfy consumers yet.

BTW, you picked a bad group of brands to use for quality examples as European are not doing too well there either ... in fact according to one attorney who represents lemon law said the brand he sees most is Mercedes. My daughter owns a BMW she hates because of heavy repairs and because she had to give her ex-husband her Ford truck in a divorce.
 

nealh

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 1999
7,078
1
0
I had a Mercedes..just got rid of it since the quality was more like a US automaker...ML320 was built in the US, it was a 2001 and it was not nearly as well built as my 1991Maxima, 1996 A4 or 2003 530i

ML320 had some computer related issues with the ABS and a ignition tumbler went bad...at 70000 miles...nothing would have been covered by powertrain..the engine was german built and I guess will run for a zillion miles...electrical stuff was US parts and assembly and it did not have same build quality

I hate to say this as I will get creamed, but I look for cars not built in the US..ala 530i and my A4

Even some Japanese cars built i nthe US are not up to same quality as the ones built in Japan, Germany

I do agree when a European car goes bad it costs big $$$ to repair....
 

Bekker

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2000
1,330
0
0
I totally agree that non-powertrain items should be much longer than they now are, but wonder if this can totally be controlled by the manufacturer. I may be wrong, but I am guessing that most non-powertrain items are provided by outside suppliers and are used as assembly parts, which would make it much harder for quality control by the auto producer as they would have to rely on outside suppliers. To offer longer warranties auto manufacturers would have to pay more for the outside supplied parts and then pass that added cost along to the buyer. For powertrain items actually manufactured by the auto producer, quality improvements can be made internally at costs that can be better controlled by the producer. one is mostly controlled by auto manufacturers (powertrain) and the other by outside providers (non-powertrain). Hence it may be very difficult to offer long non-powertrain warranties without raising prices, which are already too high.

Long ago as a marketing student I was taught that auto producers do not want to produce products that have more quality than the original buyer wants from the prodcut, so they engineer products to have a life equal to what the original buyer wants to own the product and no longer. I economics the term "consumer surplus" refers to buyers getting more value than they are are paying for. A "consumer deficit" would then be a consumer getting less value than what he pays for. So, if a producer uses tires that have a life-expectancy of 10 years and the original buyer owns the auto for only 5 years, he has suffered a consumer deficit because he paid a higher price than needed for the quality level desired (a 10 year tire costs more tha a 5 year tire). Conversly, the used car buyer gets a consumer surplus because he gets more quality than he pays for (the tire should be worn out by the time he buys the auto). The objective of the auto producer was to create a product with no "surplus" or "deficit" so each buyer pays exactly what they should based on the value received. That is or was why so many mechanical and other problems began to appear as the auto neared the end of its life for the original buyer.

I always argued against this philosophy because I felt that the value offered by the better level of quality would lead the second buyer to pay more, resulting in higher resale values, which would in turn offer a better value to the new car buyer. In this way there would be no consumer surplus or deficit. I suspect that Asian producers recognized this and produced autos with higher intial quality. That began a long term very favorable trend for those producers because on one end they had lower prices than domestic brands and on the other higher resale. thus the cost to buy and trade foreign made autos was substantially lower than for domestic. We are paying higher prices for domestic autos and getting lower resale value. That is going to be an extremely difficult problem to overcome. Prices must be held constant or reduced while resale values have to be increased. The question becomes "how can that be done?" Neither Ford, Chrysler, nor GM have figured that out yet.
 

stuartkahler

Junior Member
Jan 13, 2004
13
0
0
My wifes Kia Sedona was half the price of a Toyota of similar setup ($16K to be exact), runs well and goes from A to B with a good warranty.
Are you saying you got a new fully loaded EX? Did you actually go to a Toyota dealer and test drive a Sienna? Sienna starts at about $22k. $32k will have you in a DVD, Nav system, leather, moonroof, power everything. I've tested new and used of both. Comparing them is like putting a Taurus up against a BMW 5 series. Yeah, if you're tight on cash, the Taurus is a better deal, but don't act like they're in the same league. New Sedonnas drive like 4-6 year old Siennas. You can buy a 3 year old used Sienna for less than the new Sedonna and have a better performing, more reliable vehicle.

Warranties are a nice gesture, but you're still stuck without a vehicle when it breaks down. You still have to hope the dealer will properly honor the warranty (i.e. claim it's not covered, or call it excessive wear and tear). You have to hope they don't use cheap knockoff parts to replace whatever breaks down. You have to self insure for the things that break down that aren't covered at all. And vehicles that need extended warranties to sell are historically near worthless when the warranties expire.

Plus Sedona is assembled in Korea; Sienna is assembled in Indiana with 90% parts from North America. If you need a great minivan for $16k, buy a used Sienna.
 

Bekker

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2000
1,330
0
0
Thnks Nealth. Makes me feel less worthless. BTW, with or without quality problems, I have always dreamed of owning a Mercedes I love their styling. A few years ago I went to an auction that had a 2002 high dollar model (cannot remember which but think it was the 400 series that had a book value of about $24k. Gorgeous car but a rebuilder. They had done an excellent job bodywise but said the rear vwheel was slightly bent which was noticable at high speeds. i was not too sure that did not actually mean it had been hit in the rear and not correctly repaired so was afraid to risk it, It sold for $13,500. Still wonder if I made a mistake not buying it, but if bought and wrong, many $ to fix I fear!
 

nealh

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 1999
7,078
1
0
I think if you are buying a E class(still built in Germany) you maybe ok...but the quality on the US built Mercedes' suck in a big way...the ML 320 was too plasticy(is that a word) ..the Mercedes was something my wife always wanted so I bought for her(should have gotten the RX300)...after buying it, it never lived up to her expectations on the quality side

Never buy a German car as a fixer-upper...that will only fix your wallet IMHO

I dumped the ML320 in late july, right after dumping $2000 to get the ABS/ESP(stabiltiy control ..computer module issue) and the ignition tumbler fixed, needed it to run to trade it in....They screwed up on the repair and forgot to fix something...they "ate " the labor but had the audacity to charge me $120 for parts....I had a friends son on the team working on the car or I would have thrown a fit...they "blamed" him for missing the issue..so I let it be and never considered buying another car from them....
No way I could ever trust them again

My wife needed a vehicle for her Window treatment business...SUV was too small..so we got a Nissan Quest

The real problem with cars is trusting them(dealers and repair shops) to fix things right, honestly...my personal feeling is many dealers are just not top notch on the Repair side..I really feel duped every time something needs to be fixed

 

feelingshorter

Platinum Member
May 5, 2004
2,439
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71
I remember when my parents first came to America; they felt that everything made in the USA was good. They didn?t know much about cars but after our first three cars, a truck and two 4 doors, we decided that the cars were too unreliable. The car repairs on American cars sucked us dry, especially when we were really poor. Since then, we have been driving Camrys all the way. Own three to date and none of them have any major failures.
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
Originally posted by: nealh
I had a Mercedes..just got rid of it since the quality was more like a US automaker...ML320 was built in the US, it was a 2001 and it was not nearly as well built as my 1991Maxima, 1996 A4 or 2003 530i

ML320 had some computer related issues with the ABS and a ignition tumbler went bad...at 70000 miles...nothing would have been covered by powertrain..the engine was german built and I guess will run for a zillion miles...electrical stuff was US parts and assembly and it did not have same build quality

I hate to say this as I will get creamed, but I look for cars not built in the US..ala 530i and my A4

Even some Japanese cars built i nthe US are not up to same quality as the ones built in Japan, Germany

I do agree when a European car goes bad it costs big $$$ to repair....

That's a good point, and one seldom mentioned. I remember back in the '80's when VW constructed a plant in PA, and a car magazone or two (don't remember if it was C&D, MT, R&T or other) noted that the quality difference between the German-built Rabbit was noticeably better than the American-built one. Sad, but true...
 

nealh

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 1999
7,078
1
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Originally posted by: cparent
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/special/powerreport/gm/GM_SPR.pdf


GM 2 of the top 5 in initial quality of ALL car companies.

GM 2 of the top 5 in Vehicle Dependability of ALL car companies.

I bet there's going to be a lot of red faced people here when they read this

Look at the GM brands..Cadillac and Buick...not chevy, Olds, Pontiac, Saturn,GMC..so the majority of there cars are not at the high end

NO I am not red faced at all...nothing Buick makes excites me...Caddy nice cars but I would get a Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, BMW(I know later 2 are not in the top...my A4 has been my all time favorite car period...fit and finish were impeccable..I will readily admit I had a recurrent AC issue that lead me to get rid of the car after 7 yrs and 105K....)
 
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