WARNING: Off Topic is approaching critical mass.

[Ornery]

"If people are so insistent on being able to spout off in that Forum, and the group is as large as it is, then only the people who are truly serious about wanting to post there will." - networkman 07/15/2002 12:05 PM


Man, you missed the point of this entire topic!

• "O.T. has degraded into a kiddie forum..."

The problem isn't with people "spouting off", the problem is the AOL type chit chat cluttering up the place!

Like I said, make a separate forum for that crap and blow the posts away within a couple hours, or host a chat room. Either way will cut down bandwidth usage across the board(s).

 

[Hanpan]

D'oh. I lost my entire post.

Let's try agian.

My suggestion would be to lower the subscription to say $10.00 per year and make all forums subscription.

I actually had much more to say but dammit somehow I lost my post and don't have time to type it again.

Maybe later.

 

[Red Dawn]

Like I said, make a separate forum for that crap and blow the posts away within a couple hours, or host a chat room. Either way will cut down bandwidth usage across the board(s).

We need a Forum Just for Onery too. We'll call it "Blame it on the Dems and Tightwad Forum" Hahaha

 

[Paulson]

Ya, off topic for subscribers only sounds like the only way to fix this problem...

what is the moderator's opinions... I think I'd really like to see more thoughts about all this from them?

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: Paulson
Ya, off topic for subscribers only sounds like the only way to fix this problem...

what is the moderator's opinions... I think I'd really like to see more thoughts about all this from them?

I like that idea.

 

[Ornery]

"We need a Forum Just for Onery too..."

Hah! Too late, I already got one!

Too bad is freakin' populated by prissy pants Dems and tree huggers in general :frown:

 

[etech]

Ok, I?m probably partly to blame for some of this so I feel I should offer something.

No, I don?t think ATOT should be disposed of. It was started to get the off-topic threads out of general hardware. If I remember correctly, Harvey and Netopia? used to have some wonderful religious threads back then. ATOT still provides a valuable service to the AT community.
Do we have a problem
I think there is and from the number of threads started on this topic and also from the number of old members that have left I think most people will agree that ATOT is not what is was even a year ago.
All things will change that of course is inevitable. The question is whether ATOT is as good as it can be. Another way of putting that - is ATOT providing the greatest benefit to the greatest number of members as is possible. Once again the way it has been going, I don?t think it is. Some people are happy with having an AOL chatroom type forum, many others are not. I fully expect some to say that there is not a problem and they are of course entitled to that opinion.
Define the problem
It wasn?t that long ago that a discussion could be held without all of the one liner ?look at me?/postcount++ posts intruding into it. Now they are in almost every thread and the one line post has become the norm. Look through the threads for yourself. The great majority of the posts are one-liners or even just a emoticon. There used to be a balance in ATOT. Some of the threads ie butter were just for fun and chat, others were for the people that wanted to discuss a topic. The problem as I see it is that the some of the current ?chatters? do not know which threads are which.
For an example take this thread. The current status of ATOT could be described as a serious topic yet we still have posts of trout slapping,bite me jerk, this thread sucks, group hugs and something about Red grabbing someone?s ass. Ok, I know they are all just jokes. The problem as I see it is when you have one person doing it, it?s not a problem. When you have 20 people posting jokes and some of those posters have approached up to a hundred posts a day the noise level becomes overwhelming.
When you have some people posting in threads where someone asks for advice on product X and their reply is ?I don?t have product X? then you have serious problem of neffing.
It becomes impossible to have a serious conversation. The average post becomes a one-liner when the majority of the posters start doing it. The balance that the forum once had is gone.
What is the solution
I have to admit that I don?t know if there is a good solution. The chatters will go all out to defend their rights to chat and post as they want to. As it is right now the older members can only complain, sigh and then move on when the inane posts become too annoying.
I will say that PsychoAndys post guidelines are a good start. posting guidelines
Perhaps they should debated, revised if necessary and then be stickied to the top and enforced.
The enforcement part will be the hardest. The postcounters have had their way for a long time and have gotten used to having free run. They will complain and bitch if they are reigned in on their post count race.

An explanation

I have seen many people misunderstanding or just plain misrepresenting what I am trying to say. I don?t mind chat threads. I once went and found a wav file of ?Good Night Sweetheart? for one of the women of AT for a good night thread. AT is a community and we need to be able to discuss and joke and talk to one another. The problem is that a few of the juvis are making so much noise that a conversation is becoming impossible. There aren?t even that many of them that are making the most noise. Quiet them down, as they were in the past and many of the problems would disappear.

My suggestions.
Post a posting guideline.
Enforce it.
If you don?t have anything to say, say nothing.
Enjoy the forums.

These are the forums of the best hardware review site on the Net. They can and deserve to be so much more than just an AOL chatroom.

If anyone says this is too long to read Baffled has my full permission and encouragement to trout slap them up and down 10 times.

 

[Red Dawn]

When you have 20 people posting jokes and some of those posters have approached up to a hundred posts a day the noise level becomes overwhelming.

Well one things for sure, I'd rather put up with the Neffs and wankers than have the Mods come down with a bunch of restrictive rules. Hell just trying to enforce them will make their jobs much harder than it already is. On the other hand restricting the Off Topic to only subscribers will not only pay for the bandwidth used, but virtually eliminate the problems with Trolls. NewCompGeek, Kotchy, Lawaris and the other stank trolls wont's be able to troll there because they won't have access. This will lighjten up the Mods load and probably put them in a lighter mood

 

[hammer01]

Yeah I subscried today just in case this went through, not like I post much there anyways.

 

[GrumpyMan]

"For an example take this thread. The current status of ATOT could be described as a serious topic yet we still have posts of trout slapping,bite me jerk, this thread sucks, group hugs and something about Red grabbing someone?s ass. Ok, I know they are all just jokes. The problem as I see it is when you have one person doing it, it?s not a problem. When you have 20 people posting jokes and some of those posters have approached up to a hundred posts a day the noise level becomes overwhelming."


I agree with Etech here, there is rarely a thread of serious discussion were someone doesn't start with this, and it goes down hill from there.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: networkman
Quoted:
We agree with you N8
O.T. has degraded into a kiddie forum
Maybe we should just close O.T. altogether

AnandTech Moderator

Personally, I'd have no problem with that. As it is now, I have the OT Forum set to not even display in my Customize settings.

And if Anand/Zuni does decide to remove the OT Forum, you can forget getting a refund on your subscription - read the fine print:

We bill once for the subscription account, there are no recurring charges. The subscription fee is non-refundable..

You asked for ideas, here's one:

Make being a Subscriber a requirement to access the OT Forums! If people are so insistent on being able to spout off in that Forum, and the group is as large as it is, then only the people who are truly serious about wanting to post there will. Those that don't want to ante up for compensating the Forums for all the bandwidth and resources that they're now using for free will go elsewhere. And what's the problem with that?? I see no problem at all.

Anandtech loses a bunch of members.. so what? The ones being lost are likely the non-subscribers anyway, which takes a huge burden off of the bandwidth and servers that Anand has committed to the community. I'm sure someone is going to suggest that this will result in OT becoming a place for only the "Haves" with none of the "Have Nots". Excuse me? $2.50 a month is unaffordable?!? And even if it is, again so what? This is a privately operated business, not some extension of the government being operated on tax-payer funds! Hello..

You may not like my suggestion, but at least I'm providing one. Oh, and if you're curious, YES, I would regularly participate in the OT Forum if it were only open to Subscribers, because at least then we'd know that people are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

While I personally like the idea, IIRC didn't Anand/Zuni say in the past that they would keep the forums as they are for all, and only add special perks for the subscribers?

 

[Azraele]

I can see your point GrumpyMan, I've seen some threads that border just short of ridiculous. However, I think policing OT to be entirely serious would be a mistake.

There's got to be some sort of balance, or middle ground between too serious and too silly.

 

[Ornery]

I think etech has a handle on the situation al right. Summed up VERY well!

IMO, many of "the guilty ones" are really decent people. We're just at odds over the atmosphere of this turf. Some want it treated like a library, others like a magazine rack. Some like a coffee house, others like a bar (a noisy one at that). It is, in fact, a forum and that is what it was created as, not a chat room. A chat room would NOT lend itself to sharing computer help and info, which is why the forum design is used for General Hardware. Same goes for non hardware discussions.

I've NEVER had any use for chat rooms, but I do LOVE discussions. Been on one forum or another since I could get online. I for one am NOT going to allow this forum to go to hell without a fight. It's easy to cause chaos and ah heck off. It's hard as hell to keep order and structure when rules and discipline are lax. If it's up to the members to discipline themselves, then there's gonna be a struggle. It would be helpful if some guidelines were put in place, even if there wasn't a penalty for non compliance. I think things could be regulated by the users if there was a set structure to try and adhere to. It used to be frowned upon to "Nef". I move that we head back in that direction!

 

[Red Dawn]

Hery Ornery, there's always Hippy's!!

 

[Azraele]

Ornery, do you think mods policing threads to keep them on topic would help?

 

[GrumpyMan]

Originally posted by: Azraele
I can see your point GrumpyMan, I've seen some threads that border just short of ridiculous. However, I think policing OT to be entirely serious would be a mistake. There's got to be some sort of balance, or middle ground between too serious and too silly.

I'm with you on this Azraele and your point is well taken and valid. After all I go to OT to get away from the drugery of life for a small moment and do enjoy the comical threads there that I see sometimes.

 

[snow patrol]

I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.


I don't agree that OT should be subscription only. I doubt enough people actually subscribe to make it interesting enough, should this go through. Personally, I think the funny/silly/ultimately pointless threads are all part of the rich tapestry that is ATOT. Sure, I can understand people's frustration with the sheer quantity of these posts, but at the end of the day, no one is foricing you to even look at these threads, let alone participate in them.


Why don't we simply have a 'serious political/world issues' forum...a 'speaker's corner' if you will, to go alongside OT. That way, people entering this forum will know (rougly) exactly what they're getting and can look forward to participating in good quality debates without having the wade through all the usual nonsense assosiated with off topic.

Just a thought any way.

 

[Red Dawn]

We should also Make the DC and Hot Deals Forums Subscriber also

 

[networkman]

We should also Make the DC and Hot Deals Forums Subscriber also

The DC Forum is already promoting the Anandtech site; yeah, it may not bring in as many hits as people going to the OT Forum, but let's just ask the Mods how much crap they have to deal with in the DC Forum too. Tons of free advertising is going on for Anand there - and isn't that what he wants? Positive influence, helpful people, constructive projects.. yeah, we really hear about alot of that going on in OT.

 

[crypticlogin]

I for one am against making any of the forums 'subscriber only' simply because the forums that have been suggested are the most popular ones (maybe not DC ). Who would want to pay for something they haven't seen? That, and one of the founding "guidelines" (if you want to call it that) for subscriptions is to provide additional services, e.g. extra PM space, buddy lists, faster forums, not to take away existing services. And if that was the only change, I'm not entirely convinced that would make the forums less chit chatty. Some of the existing chatters, one liners, quoting abusers, and hijackers are proclaimed subscribers so I can easily see it continuing in restricted forums.

etech has a great summary in his post, and I like his step one: just posting some guidelines would be a great start. Exactly what would be in those guidelines is up for debate and suggestion but we all know what we want and don't want to see -- we just have to find the majority overlap. *Most* users are decent people who should see and act to the changes, and that should make the burden of cleaning up OT a great deal easier. The rest might need a mod warning before the ideas get pounded into their heads.

That's my take on this.

 

[NicColt]

Just remove the post counts for OT. 3/4 of posters there simply feed from this.

All other forums are subject specific so it's different. Having a public OT is just not possible, just do a subscriber OT with specific rules and you going to see a quality Forum.

 

[Red Dawn]

Tons of free advertising is going on for Anand there - and isn't that what he wants? Positive influence, helpful people, constructive projects.. yeah, we really hear about alot of that going on in OT.

Yeah to Dweebs that use up his Bandwidth. You PNG's think you are so special when the truth is you are just a bunch on no life Geeks who are better off in the DC forum than boring the crap out of somebody in a resteraunt or bar talking about SETI . Hell if they closed DC Forum maybe some of you Pimple Farmer would actually go out and met a women and find out what sex is all about...

BTW Networkman, you have PM.

 

[Geekbabe]

Why not just go ahead and make ATOT subscriber only ? It would solve much of the problem,end a lot of the bickering and be less rigid and restrictive than a ton of new heavy duty rules.I think people value things in direct proportionate to how much they pay for them.If people must pay to use ATOT I feel the quality of the forum would improve muchly

 

[networkman]

For some reason Red Dawn said:

Yeah to Dweebs that use up his Bandwidth. You PNG's think you are so special when the truth is you are just a bunch on no life Geeks who are better off in the DC forum than boring the crap out of somebody in a resteraunt or bar talking about SETI . Hell if they closed DC Forum maybe some of you Pimple Farmer would actually go out and met a women and find out what sex is all about...

Ah, what an enlightened and mature response, from an "Elite" member no less... such ignorant broad-sweeping generalizations AND name-calling to boot! Yes, these skills will surely show others that you must be in the right.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the PM.

 

[Hanpan]

"Why not just go ahead and make ATOT subscriber only ? It would solve much of the problem,end a lot of the bickering and be less rigid and restrictive than a ton of new heavy duty rules.I think people value things in direct proportionate to how much they pay for them.If people must pay to use ATOT I feel the quality of the forum would improve muchly"

I agree in general though I would hope they could lower the fee a bit to compensate for the fact that non-subscribers no longer leetch bandwidth, and for the most part most neffing might stop. On the other hand if people were required to pay for access you might run into a situation where people feel they have the "right to nef and act like 3 year olds" simply because they have paid for it. ANd how long before you have somones mother on here demanding here money back because her son got banned. Even worse what happens when these people start to dispute with their cc companies. All I am saying is that this is a large community with a rahter intricite problem that does not lend itself well to simple or heavy-handed solutions.