Was Hitler a Christian?

[Genx87]

Was was raised a catholic but strayed from his religion rather early. He was agnostic and really his religion was his own ideology of national socialism. He surrounded himself with mystics and occultists though which is interesting.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Beg pardon? What is there in John that can be rationally considered to be anti-semitic?

ZV

Uh... the whole thing about "the jews" convincing Pontius Pilate to crucify jesus. This was basically made up in order to blame the jews for the jewish-roman wars. The idea that a roman official would need to be convinced to crucify a rebellious subject of a particularly rebellious region is patently absurd. It is pretty well established that John's depiction of the crucifiction was fabricated in order to attack the jews, and the source of the idiotic and evil idea that the jews killed jesus:

Text

[edit] Gospel of John
The Gospel of John is the only one that collectively describes the enemies of Jesus as "the Jews." In none of the other gospels do "the Jews" demand, en masse, the death of Jesus. In the other three gospels the plot to arrest Jesus and put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees. Whoever was the author of John's Gospel, one thing has become clear: the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus became fixed in the Christian mind. Successive generations of Christians read in the gospels the collective guilt of the Jews in the death of Christ

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: preslove
Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Please explain. Are you saying the Bible is anti-semitic?

Yes.

The new testament is the root of Christian anti-semiticism and seed of the holocaust.


I am continually amazed at how ignorant most christians are of their religion.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
lol - a christian, suuure

I've always heard he was hardcore atheist. It's common for atheists to place little to no value on human life and some will love death.

Anyone claiming Hitler was christian have GOT to have an agenda because the facts don't support it. Might want to background check them for their views on Christianity in general.

Go ahead, call Hitler an Atheist. The beautiful thing about Atheism is that it's not a membership, we don't receive a postcard at Festivus and don't have to defend the motives of others. You can even pretend to understand what might be common for a group of people that share nothing in common. Go ahead, logically, it's pretty comedic.

On the other hand, I can't help but feel you are lashing out in some sort of attempt to defend what you hold as sacred.

And somewhere in this thread, the right answer has already been stated. We have no way of knowing what truly went on inside Hitler's mind. Had the world been as it is today, he might have used Atheism as his platform to gain support. In fact we may be close to a period where some megalomaniac does try to use Atheism to garner blind support. However, even if Hitler was a believer in Christianity, you cannot take that away from him. He may have been awful and he may not get into your heaven, but that doesn't stop him from believing in it just as much as you believe in it.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: preslove

I am continually amazed at how ignorant most christians are of their religion.

You picked the wrong person to accuse of ignorance. Zenmervolt was fairly anti-Christian up until a few years ago and has done more reading on the topic during his life than most people I know.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Not to mention:

Wiki linked
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[Genx87]

Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
Hitler used religious hatred to fuel his war machine, but remove religion and you've just got another world leader who believed in racial purity (aka eugenics). Many wealthy Americans and American corporations supported Hitler, including Prescott Bush (grandfather of George W. Bush), IBM, Henry Ford, Chase Manhattan Bank, DuPont, JP Morgan, etc, etc. Modern day eugenics supporters include Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Monsanto Corporation, and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Religion is just a tool for the wealthy elite, used to control the simple-minded masses to do their will.

Dont forget one of the founders of Planned Parenthood, one of th ebiggest eugenicists of them all.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Nik
How silly. If you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount starting in Matthew 4 (pretty sure it was 4, I threw away my Bible years ago), then you aren't a Christian. Plain and simple Hitler most certainly did not follow the teachings of Christ and therefore cannot be a Christian.

I'll debate you on that, nik. Nobody is able to actually follow in the teachings of Christ all the time, I'm sure you'll agree. The debate then becomes, "how much effort do you need to put into / how often do you need to succeed in following the teachings of Christ to be classified Christian?" Then we simply argue back and forth about an imaginary line in the sand using differently-interpreted scripture.

I would say that the mark of a Christian includes someone who attempts whatsoever to follow the teachings of Christ, repents their repeated failures to succeed in doing so, and goes back to trying again.

"bears fruit"

Nobody says a Christian can't make mistakes. However, there's a difference between giving the middle finger to Christ's teachings like Hitler did and actually making an effort.

A Christian's testimony doesn't have anything to do with standing in front of people telling them about their life. A Christian's testimony is 100% how they live their life. Setting an example.

The question here is whether Hitler tried to follow Christ's teachings--whether he stumbled or not is irrelevant. Everyone does. Trying to conquer the world and murdering million's of God's Chosen is not Christian-like.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Beg pardon? What is there in John that can be rationally considered to be anti-semitic?

ZV

Uh... the whole thing about "the jews" convincing Pontius Pilate to crucify jesus. This was basically made up in order to blame the jews for the jewish-roman wars. The idea that a roman official would need to be convinced to crucify a rebellious subject of a particularly rebellious region is patently absurd. It is pretty well established that John's depiction of the crucifiction was fabricated in order to attack the jews, and the source of the idiotic and evil idea that the jews killed jesus:

Text

[edit] Gospel of John
The Gospel of John is the only one that collectively describes the enemies of Jesus as "the Jews." In none of the other gospels do "the Jews" demand, en masse, the death of Jesus. In the other three gospels the plot to arrest Jesus and put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees. Whoever was the author of John's Gospel, one thing has become clear: the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus became fixed in the Christian mind. Successive generations of Christians read in the gospels the collective guilt of the Jews in the death of Christ

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: preslove
Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Please explain. Are you saying the Bible is anti-semitic?

Yes.

The new testament is the root of Christian anti-semiticism and seed of the holocaust.


I am continually amazed at how ignorant most christians are of their religion.

Nice source you have there.

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Please improve this article if you can. (December 2007)

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You fail to appreciate the climate of science that was used to justify eugenics programs around the world at the time. The Nazi's used the Jews as scapegoats but their eugenics programs went well beyond Jews. They were an ideology that believed in genetic purity and enacted laws and camps to ensure it happened. One thing I really find interesting is when people try to blame religion on the Holocaust when it was a broken application of science abused by politicians that lead to what we saw.

Dont forget we in the United States also had eugenics laws that restricted marriage, immigration, and forced sterilization of people deemed genetically defective.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Um... do you know anything about the New Testament? The jews are repeatedly blamed for killing jesus.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Um... do you know anything about the New Testament? The jews are repeatedly blamed for killing jesus.

Yes, I'm well aware of the trite of ignorant masses.

If human beings can kill Jesus (read: if Jesus was unwilling but was crusified anyway), that makes man more powerful than God.

These are simple concepts, preslove. You learn them in sunday school. It's pretty irritating to see arguments about who was responsible for his death. Why do you think Christ was in the garden praying so hard he sweat blood? God the father was like hey dude, yer screwed and Christ was like wtfnowaihax ... but okay I know this is necessary to save humanity, I'll do it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

You know millions of people? Can you name them all?

Why do you type like you're 6 years old?

MY fellow Anericans. Why does my writing bother you. Are you so perfect. that the speck in my eye is so troublesome to you when you have a redwood in your eye

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Beg pardon? What is there in John that can be rationally considered to be anti-semitic?

ZV

Uh... the whole thing about "the jews" convincing Pontius Pilate to crucify jesus. This was basically made up in order to blame the jews for the jewish-roman wars. The idea that a roman official would need to be convinced to crucify a rebellious subject of a particularly rebellious region is patently absurd. It is pretty well established that John's depiction of the crucifiction was fabricated in order to attack the jews, and the source of the idiotic and evil idea that the jews killed jesus:

Text

[edit] Gospel of John
The Gospel of John is the only one that collectively describes the enemies of Jesus as "the Jews." In none of the other gospels do "the Jews" demand, en masse, the death of Jesus. In the other three gospels the plot to arrest Jesus and put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees. Whoever was the author of John's Gospel, one thing has become clear: the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus became fixed in the Christian mind. Successive generations of Christians read in the gospels the collective guilt of the Jews in the death of Christ

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: preslove
Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Please explain. Are you saying the Bible is anti-semitic?

Yes.

The new testament is the root of Christian anti-semiticism and seed of the holocaust.


I am continually amazed at how ignorant most christians are of their religion.

Nice source you have there.

-This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.
Please improve this article if you can. (December 2007)

-This article or section contains weasel words, vague phrasing that often accompanies biased or unverifiable information. Such statements should be clarified or removed.

-This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2007)

-This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Christianity or the Christianity Portal may be able to help recruit one. (November 2008)

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Those notices come up on every controversial subject in Wikipedia. It's a good article, but christians come on and attack it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: her209
Isn't it a sin to judge the Christianess of another?

No, that's not what the passage says. What is almost invariably left out is the clarifying quote that immediately follows it, "For with the judgement you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." (Matt 7:2, NRSV)

The passage is not saying that we are not allowed to judge, but rather saying that we shall ourselves be judged by the same methods we use to judge others. See also the "Lord's prayer" where we are instructed to ask God to, "forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matt 6:12, NRSV) In other words, our own debts will only be forgiven to the extent that we forgive the debts of others.

ZV

Yes it is but perfection only Christ attained. Judge not least ye be judged. Also were commanded not to swear yet our court System makes us swear on the Bible to tell whole trueth and nothing but trueth so help me god . When Ya all get it figured out it will be way to late for ya.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

You know millions of people? Can you name them all?

Why do you type like you're 6 years old?

MY fellow Anericans. Why does my writing bother you. Are you so perfect. that the speck in my eye is so troublesome to you when you have a redwood in your eye

:laugh: Please, keep posting.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
What the hell LOCK this thread. What the hell kind of a question is that . Hitler could call himself anything he wanted to. That doesn't mean its so . I know Millions of people who claim to be christians that haven't a clue . Ya pick up a gun you kill someone with it because your governments said its OK . Your NOT a Christian . Anyone whos says differant dooms themselves to hell its a false teaching inspired by Rome . You want to ask stupid questions . Google Pope and the Nazi . Get eyes opened. Geez!

You know millions of people? Can you name them all?

Why do you type like you're 6 years old?

MY fellow Anericans. Why does my writing bother you. Are you so perfect. that the speck in my eye is so troublesome to you when you have a redwood in your eye

Okay, now you're just trying to write poorly.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: preslove
Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Beg pardon? What is there in John that can be rationally considered to be anti-semitic?

ZV

Uh... the whole thing about "the jews" convincing Pontius Pilate to crucify jesus. This was basically made up in order to blame the jews for the jewish-roman wars. The idea that a roman official would need to be convinced to crucify a rebellious subject of a particularly rebellious region is patently absurd. It is pretty well established that John's depiction of the crucifiction was fabricated in order to attack the jews, and the source of the idiotic and evil idea that the jews killed jesus:

Text

[edit] Gospel of John
The Gospel of John is the only one that collectively describes the enemies of Jesus as "the Jews." In none of the other gospels do "the Jews" demand, en masse, the death of Jesus. In the other three gospels the plot to arrest Jesus and put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees. Whoever was the author of John's Gospel, one thing has become clear: the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus became fixed in the Christian mind. Successive generations of Christians read in the gospels the collective guilt of the Jews in the death of Christ

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: preslove
Considering that Hitler's final solution was the crescendo of European, Christian Anti-Semitism, then yes Hitler not only was a Christian, but he was probably the greatest champion of a key Christian ideology (i.e. jews killed jesus, so lets kill us some jews).

Christianity has been anti-semitic since the gospel of John.

Please explain. Are you saying the Bible is anti-semitic?

Yes.

The new testament is the root of Christian anti-semiticism and seed of the holocaust.


I am continually amazed at how ignorant most christians are of their religion.

Nice source you have there.

-This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.
Please improve this article if you can. (December 2007)

-This article or section contains weasel words, vague phrasing that often accompanies biased or unverifiable information. Such statements should be clarified or removed.

-This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2007)

-This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Christianity or the Christianity Portal may be able to help recruit one. (November 2008)

-This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Judaism or the Judaism Portal may be able to help recruit one. (November 2008)

Those notices come up on every controversial subject in Wikipedia. It's a good article, but christians come on and attack it.

I have never seen so many. And glancing the article I see why. Looks like anybody can erect a wiki page and proclaim their ignorance. Luckily wiki does have some sense of standards. Which this one clearly fails.

That said I edited my initial reply. Ill leave it below.

You fail to appreciate the climate of science that was used to justify eugenics programs around the world at the time. The Nazi's used the Jews as scapegoats but their eugenics programs went well beyond Jews. They were an ideology that believed in genetic purity and enacted laws and camps to ensure it happened. One thing I really find interesting is when people try to blame religion on the Holocaust when it was a broken application of science abused by politicians that lead to what we saw.

Dont forget we in the United States also had eugenics laws that restricted marriage, immigration, and forced sterilization of people deemed genetically defective.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: preslove
Those notices come up on every controversial subject in Wikipedia. It's a good article, but christians come on and attack it.

Naturally. The article is shit, having been written by someone with an obvious agenda -someone who's basically talking out of their ass.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
lol - a christian, suuure

I've always heard he was hardcore atheist. It's common for atheists to place little to no value on human life and some will love death.

Anyone claiming Hitler was christian have GOT to have an agenda because the facts don't support it. Might want to background check them for their views on Christianity in general.

Wow, I don't know where you get that. Every atheist I know is kind and value life greatly, since we do not have a magical kingdom to go to after we die we have to value this life that much more. Many doctors are atheists.

Personally it is all the theists that don't value life. How can you when you believe that dieing is the goal? Your beliefs regulate all of life to a waiting room that must be endured until your name is called. Hard to imagine you valuing a life that you believe would be better off dead.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Um... do you know anything about the New Testament? The jews are repeatedly blamed for killing jesus.

Yes, I'm well aware of the trite of ignorant masses.

If human beings can kill Jesus (read: if Jesus was unwilling but was crusified anyway), that makes man more powerful than God.

These are simple concepts, preslove. You learn them in sunday school. It's pretty irritating to see arguments about who was responsible for his death. Why do you think Christ was in the garden praying so hard he sweat blood? God the father was like hey dude, yer screwed and Christ was like wtfnowaihax ... but okay I know this is necessary to save humanity, I'll do it.

So, you deny the many times the new testament blames the jews for the crucifixion?

Uh...

Matthew 27:25 in which Jews prompt Jesus' crucifixion and say "His blood be on us, and on our children".

You're talking straight out your ass, dude.

 

[lebe0024]

If the question is phrased "Was Hitler a follower of Jesus?", the answer is "No." I know that non-christians have a lot of good reason not to believe. I was an atheist a long time before believing. And people like Hitler with the support of many in the German church don't make it any easier. I'm truly sorry for that. I hope someday that you'll meet a real follower of Jesus; I did.

Just one more thing: The Jewish leaders did plot to kill Jesus. Religion is as opposed to the message of the cross as un-religion. But christians know for certain that it was actually Jesus (God) who killed Jesus, and do not view Jews as enemies. "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again."

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
lol - a christian, suuure

I've always heard he was hardcore atheist. It's common for atheists to place little to no value on human life and some will love death.

Anyone claiming Hitler was christian have GOT to have an agenda because the facts don't support it. Might want to background check them for their views on Christianity in general.

Wow, I don't know where you get that. Every atheist I know is kind and value life greatly, since we do not have a magical kingdom to go to after we die we have to value this life that much more. Many doctors are atheists.

Personally it is all the theists that don't value life. How can you when you believe that dieing is the goal? Your beliefs regulate all of life to a waiting room that must be endured until your name is called. Hard to imagine you valuing a life that you believe would be better off dead.

If theists thought dying was the goal, they'd off their children before they could sin. They'd be saving the child's eternal soul, right? :roll:

Theists believe that you need to qualify your eternal ticket to heaven by leading a certain kind of life. Death isn't the goal, life is very much the goal.

Not that it matters, since religion is all a farce anyway

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Jesus Christ was god? I thought he was the son of god.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: preslove
wall of text

Christ is responsible for his sacrifice. Nobody else. To believe otherwise destroys the concept of Christ being God.

Jesus Christ was god? I thought he was the son of god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Nik
If theists thought dying was the goal, they'd off their children before they could sin. They'd be saving the child's eternal soul, right? :roll:

Original Sin. And killing / suicide are both sins. Don't worry, religions got it covered