Was Pearl Harbor Japans own idea, or did they copy it...

[K1052]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy

Originally posted by: FallenHero
You should probably specify a couple of things:

1) Which Itailian port?
2) What crack are you smoking?

The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because we moved our pacific fleet out there to meet the growing Japanese threat. It was an easy target and they saw it as a threat to their empire building. It does not matter whether or not they "copied" the idea from someplace else, as it was a sound strategic move on their part at the time. They used basic military thinking when they picked the target and executed the plan. Surprise assault on an open target against an unprepared enemy. Did something to that effect happen before that? Probably. Will it happen again? Probably. The Japanese didn't need any sort of inspiration to attack, it was simply the smart thing to do.

I'm not saying they didn't copy it, I am saying they would have done it anyway.

Forcing the US into WW2 at full capacity was such a great strategic move. :disgust:

Had our carriers been in port and the Japanese attacked more of the support infastructure it probably would have worked.

we can play IF all we want.

IF the pearl harbor command had taken the spotting of the planes incoming into true consideration and not just brushed it off as the incoming B-17's...

IF IF IF.

That particular IF lost Japan the war the day it started and conseqently condemned the Axis powers to eventual defeat. I tend to pay it more attention than most other IFs.

 

[GasX]

Generally speaking, waking up a sleeping dragon is never a good idea.

In Britain's case the dragon was a baby one drunk on Chianti. In Japan's case, the dragon was all grown up and in a bad mood...

 

[jdini76]

I heard that before World War 2 happened, World War 1 was just called the World War!

That's crazy!

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: jdini76
I heard that before World War 2 happened, World War 1 was just called the World War!

That's crazy!

You mean The Great War?

 

[jdini76]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: jdini76
I heard that before World War 2 happened, World War 1 was just called the World War!

That's crazy!

You mean The Great War?

you missed my lame humor...

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jdini76

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: jdini76
I heard that before World War 2 happened, World War 1 was just called the World War!

That's crazy!

You mean The Great War?

you missed my lame humor...

oh that was humor?

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: jdini76

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: jdini76
I heard that before World War 2 happened, World War 1 was just called the World War!

That's crazy!

You mean The Great War?

you missed my lame humor...

oh that was humor?

*shrug*

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Dacalo
I did a research on this topic a long time ago, and there is a controversy to whether FDR knew of the attack ahead of the time. The US had to get involved in Asia due to Japan allying with Germany and being a threat, but supposedly, FDR didn't want the US to be the aggressor. So he tempted them with high value targets.

But who knows.

While there are some interesting theories out there, I don't give them much more credit than the theories about 9/11 being a conspiracy by the Bush administration. First of all, I think Roosevelt was smart enough to realize that all he needed was an attack on US soil by the Japanese. This attack didn't need to destroy almost the entire Pacific fleet and kill nearly 3,000 americans. This attack also didn't need to undermine the US's position in the Pacific so dramatically. I don't see the President of the US, particularly Roosevelt, placing our entire strategic position in jeapordy just to get us involved in a war.

Secondly, I've never seen any real evidence that points to a conspiracy.

But as you said, who knows. We probably will never learn exactly what the government did and did not know.

 

[GasX]

I happen to like the "What If" arguments.

While we are on them (at least as they apply to the balance of power in WWII), consider the effect of the German High Command releasing the Panzers to counter-attack on D-Day. What if Rommel hadn't fallen for all of the tricks played by the British before the Battle of El Alamein. What if Hitler had not spent the winter in Russia. What if Enigma was never broken. There are so many small details and events that could have turned the war in either direction, that arguing over them is nothing more that intellectual amusement...

 

[Vin0134]

Pearl Harbor wasn't Japan's first attack like that. They did it against the Russians beofre. They bombed their naval fleet and it was the first time anyone outside of Europe/Russia that a country won a war against a European/Russian country.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: Vin0134
Pearl Harbor wasn't Japan's first attack like that. They did it against the Russians beofre. They bombed their naval fleet and it was the first time anyone outside of Europe/Russia that a country won a war against a European/Russian country.

Was this over the Sakhalin Island(s)?

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: DaShen
Interesting, I never heard that, but of course our history books are slightly skewed to America, but at least Americans are given the freedom to find out this kind of information.

G-d Bless, the US (even if it is screwed up right now)

are you jewish?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Chances are that every tactical strike made in war, was made prior in some point in history. In fact, everything has been done before.

It was believed for a long time that ball bearings were first used by people in the Da Vinci era, but recently we found out the romans were using them litterally a 1000 years prior. Has nothing to do with this thread, just an interesting tid bit.

yes, but the question is whether the Japanese got their inspiration from the Brits, or whether they came up with it independently. Something that FallenHero just didn't get.

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I happen to like the "What If" arguments.

While we are on them (at least as they apply to the balance of power in WWII), consider the effect of the German High Command releasing the Panzers to counter-attack on D-Day. What if Rommel hadn't fallen for all of the tricks played by the British before the Battle of El Alamein. What if Hitler had not spent the winter in Russia. What if Enigma was never broken. There are so many small details and events that could have turned the war in either direction, that arguing over them is nothing more that intellectual amusement...

Someone had suggested that bombing Pearl Harbor was a bad tactical move. The original "what-if" in this thread was just to point out that it was, in fact, a GREAT tactical move, except for the sheer luck of not having the carriers in port at the time, which they should have been.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Dacalo

But who knows.

This attack didn't need to destroy almost the entire Pacific fleet and kill nearly 3,000 americans.

Whoah, it destroyed almost the entire Pacific fleet? Can you point to some actual sources showing that at least 70% of the pacific fleet was "ddestroyed"?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: FallenHero
You should probably specify a couple of things:

1) Which Itailian port?
2) What crack are you smoking?

The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because we moved our pacific fleet out there to meet the growing Japanese threat. It was an easy target and they saw it as a threat to their empire building. It does not matter whether or not they "copied" the idea from someplace else, as it was a sound strategic move on their part at the time. They used basic military thinking when they picked the target and executed the plan. Surprise assault on an open target against an unprepared enemy. Did something to that effect happen before that? Probably. Will it happen again? Probably. The Japanese didn't need any sort of inspiration to attack, it was simply the smart thing to do.

I'm not saying they didn't copy it, I am saying they would have done it anyway.

well it was also because the us sh*t on them during the settlment of the russian/japanese war. the western powers were rather racist in how they treated japan when japan felt that it had reached equal status as a power. it didn't come from nothing, even if americans probably feel it did because generally very little about history let alone western/japanese relations is known by most

i remember hearing people expressing their disbelief of the whole situation of the last samuri during trailers... they had no idea about the parts that were taken from reality and thought it was all made up.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: K1052
Operation Judgement executed by the British against the Italian navy at Taranto provided some inspiration for the attack on Pearl (which was immensely larger and more complicated), IRCC. Though Japan was already an early believer in the power of naval air power.

Exactly the example I was thinking about, the british attacking the italians.