Was there anything more I could do? Could I have saved her?

hevnsnt

Lifer
Mar 18, 2000
10,868
1
0
I thought that I was over this, and really didn't want to share this story, but I am really starting to wonder if I did enough, and if there is anything else I should have done.. In case there is a "next time"

The Story:
My wife and I just took a 17 day trip to Europe. While in Germany we were visiting the Neuschwanstein Castle (outside of Fussen) we decided to go to Marry's Bridge which overlooks a gorge and gives you a great view of the castles. Past the bridge was a very steep and semi-treacherous trail going up one of the Bavarian Alp mountains. It was a small trail that switched-back up the mountain.

About 45 min to an hour up the mountain a man came running down telling us there had been an accident, and that an old woman had fallen. He told us there was nothing more to see up there and that he was going to run down to get the police. I asked where the woman was and told him that we would wait with her until the police came. We told us the general direction and we headed that way. Finally about hiking about another 30 minutes I got a reply to my "He--ll--o's" by a man who appeared in his 60-70's. He was off the trail down the mountain about 400 feet. I yelled to him asking if he needed help, and all he would do was point and wave a back-pack.

This mountain was no joke, it was just so steep that I felt a little uneasy about going down on my butt, but not knowing the situation I told my wife not to move, and that I was going to go down there and help. So I started down the side on my butt, going as slow as I could to make sure that I didn't fall and create more havok, and finally I got pretty close to the old man. I asked him if he was hurt, and he didn't respond he just kept moving away from me, I asked him where his wife was and he pointed to the right, and kept going that way. Finally I turned a small bend and a saw his wife. I was probably 50 feet from here but I knew that she was probably dead.

As he got closer to his wife he slipped and fell rolling down the mountain and rolled over her, he was able to stop himself from going any further with a death grip in the ground. I hurried as fast as I could to get to him, and helped him into a stable sitting position. Then I looked at her.

She was face down, head pointing to the top of the mountain turned to her right side. Her entire face was bloody and her skin was very blue. I went over to her and moved debris from around her mouth and nose, and then tried to get her pulse from her wrist. She was very cold and blue, and I could not find any pulse. Since she was on her stomach I was not sure if I should move her, due to any head/neck injuries. (however now I realize that if she had already died it didn't matter)

At this point I looked at the old man and he was now attempting to get a pulse. He did not speak any english but got the point across that he had a cell phone in his back-pack. After digging through it I found it and it had a keylock. I asked him if he knew the combination and he responded that she did. I tried dialing 911 and then 112 and it would give me some error recording that I was not sure what it said. (In German). I marked the lady's position on my GPS and attempted to climb my way back to my wife, however it was too steep to climb, so I told the old man to do not move and that I would be back.

I started down the mountain to see if I could find a trail, so that I could give their location to rescue team, right as I left them the fog rolled in (It was rainy and very foggy all day) I couldn't see much more than 10 feet in front of me. After about 20 minutes of descending I realized I should have never left the man & wife, as I am now lost. I sat for a second contimplating my decsion to leave him, and then why I even went down there to begin with. Finally I decided it wasn't doing me any good sitting there thinking about it, and my best bet was to continue on to the bottom, and then find my way back. About 20 feet from where I thought I was lost, was a small antelope (or whatever) trail that I took that lead me back to the main trail. I have never been so thankful in my life. I ran up the mountain to my wife (about 40 mins) and told her what I had witnessed.

I know this is getting long, but it is almost over. We started down the mountain again to be met by 2 plain-clothed police men, who we took back to the location of where the woman had fallen, and then about 30 mins later the rescue team arrived. We were hustled down the mountain and had to fill out a report, and never told of the outcome of the event.

Sorry for the long post, I need to get this off my chest. What else should I have done to help this woman? I need to know if there was something I could have done.
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
First of all. that is a very sad situation. Sorry you had to go through that.

I guess I am a bit confused by your question. What *more* could you have done? My question is: What *did* you do?
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
you did good. there was nothing more you could have done to save her. sounds like she was probably dead long before you got there.
 

Yossarian

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
18,010
1
81
wow that's quite a story. I guess you could have performed cpr, but if you aren't trained in it you can do more harm than good. after all that time w/o oxygen she was a goner no matter what I think. you did more than 99.9% of the human population would do just by trying to help, so I salute you. :beer:
 

hevnsnt

Lifer
Mar 18, 2000
10,868
1
0
Originally posted by: sygyzy
First of all. that is a very sad situation. Sorry you had to go through that.

I guess I am a bit confused by your question. What *more* could you have done? My question is: What *did* you do?

Thats just it.. I didn't know what to do.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,107
4
81
It's a great thing you were willing to act if there was something you could have done :beer:
 
Jul 12, 2001
10,142
2
0
Originally posted by: Yossarian
wow that's quite a story. I guess you could have performed cpr, but if you aren't trained in it you can do more harm than good. after all that time w/o oxygen she was a goner no matter what I think. you did more than 99.9% of the human population would do just by trying to help, so I salute you. :beer:

yeah, i would have to agree with him, if you were trained you could have done cpr, but by the way you describe her, it was almost def. too late i would guess
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,425
2
0
You did what any person would do and I don't think you could have done anything more. It's commendable that you did what you were able to do.
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
91
I don't think there was anything you could have done. Certainly that sort of situation can leave anyone confused and unsettled. Perhaps you could have done cpr, but only if you know how to do it correctly. Doing it incorrectly can be damaging, although with the alternative I guess that doesn't matter too much.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
0
0
there was a case i heard about on dateline where some guy pushed his wife off a cliff because he was sick of her and tried to explain it away as a hiking accident.

You put yourself in harm's way which was more than anyone would have required of you. You didn't have the equipment or training to improve the situation and you didn't leave until those who did were called/onsite.

So no, there's nothing else you could have done. People die. It sucks but there's nothing you can do about it.
 

bleeb

Lifer
Feb 3, 2000
10,868
0
0
What you need to do now is to ALWAYS bring a first aide kit whenever you go hiking, etc. LEARN CPR and become a doctor. That is about the extent of what you can do...
 

Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
10,848
2
0
If she was old, and already cold and blue, I'd say there was nothing you could have done. You did your best, and you handled it the best way you knew how. I'm sorry you had to witness that, those situations are never easy.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
You did very well, If she was cold, blue & pulseless she prob had irreversable brain damage & if you were in a state of the art ER she may have been revived, but with mush for gray matter.

Given the setting, no one could have done better.

I've been an EMT since age 16 & I wouldn't have started CPR... (& I've saved people doing CPR)
 

rgwalt

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2000
7,393
0
0
You couldn't have done anything more for her. You went down to assess the situation, and once there you must have realized that there was nothing more you could do. You put your own life at risk to help the woman and her husband. It is unfortunate that it turned out the way it did, but none of this was your fault. You handled the situation well, considering that you aren't a doctor, nurse, or a paramedic.

R
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
You did very well, If she was cold, blue & pulseless she prob had irreversable brain damage & if you were in a state of the art ER she may have been revived, but with mush for gray matter.

Given the setting, no one could have done better.

I've been an EMT since age 16 & I wouldn't have started CPR... (& I've saved people doing CPR)

huh, I didn't know you COULD be an EMT @ 16.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
You did very well, If she was cold, blue & pulseless she prob had irreversable brain damage & if you were in a state of the art ER she may have been revived, but with mush for gray matter.

Given the setting, no one could have done better.

I've been an EMT since age 16 & I wouldn't have started CPR... (& I've saved people doing CPR)

huh, I didn't know you COULD be an EMT @ 16.

Yep, back in the olden days anyway... Now you have to be 18

Text I was the youngest EMT in North Dakota. @ the time, no one thought about age issues, they have since then.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
wow, what a story. i don't think i would have had the courage to do what you've done.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Good for you for trying to help. It sounds as if there was nothing to be done without medical equipment and advanced training.
You did more than a lot of people would have.
 

compudog

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2001
5,782
0
71
You are a hero. You did good. As Pliablemoose said, even immediate treatment at a state of the art facility probably would not have saved her.

<--former EMT
 

I think you did all you could do. If the woman was blue and had no pulse, she was likely without oxygen for quite a bit of time. I think you did the best thing you could do by directing everyone and telling them what to do, likely keeping them calm.

I'd like to say I'd do the exact same thing had I been in your situation. Good for oyu.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Sounds like she was unfortunately already dead.

You did what you could and that's more than a lot of people would do. I wouldn't feel so bad about your actions.
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,450
1
76
Nothing you could have done, if she had no pulse CPR in that situation would have done no good at all. I am both a paramedic in Nevada and a search &amp; rescue manager from years ago in CA. (at least that's what the CA dept of OES says) and in that situation the woman was gone and nothing was going to get her back.

" Finally about hiking about another 30 minutes..." CPR is only effective if started immediately, and if cardioversion is also available soon thereafter. A persons survival rate is directly related to how soon cardioversion takes place, either with medicine or with a shock. That woman was blue, which indicates her airway was compromised in some way and probably had been for quite some time, probably resulting in cardiac arrest. EVEN if you started cpr upon arrival as a medic responding to that scene I would call it from what you said regarding the time frames, no question about it. 30 minutes before CPR is initiated is not survivable, unless they were in an extrememly cold environment. (we always say a patient isn't dead until they are warm and dead)

In future cases, if you have to move a person to enable them to breath do it. Lesser of two evils, possible paralysis or death? Death is worse, move them but only if you have to and only enough to open the airway. (CPR/First aid classes teach a jaw-thrust that minimizes cervical movement)

Cliff notes: You did everything you could.
 
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