Washer Drain Overflows -- Caused By Weird Plumbing?

[Aikouka]

To start with the background, about four years ago, I had the washer box replaced as part of a larger amount of work. The house is a split-level/tri-level house, and the utility room is on the bottom floor of the two-story portion. The washer box itself is on the wall where the two story portion meets up with the one-story portion, and this wall was built in a rather awkward fashion on the two-story portion. Essentially, instead of building a full-fledged, ~4" wall on both sides, the part of the wall in the utility room that butts up against the crawlspace is actually just a 1x4 lying flat with drywall mounted to it. Given that there's no actual wall cavity, this means there's no room for plumbing or anything like that. Consequently, when the plumbers replaced the washer box, they went from the drain on the new washer box to a 90-degree fitting, which leads to a horizontal pipe that's about 1.5 feet long, to another 90-degree fitting, that connects to what looks like a typical standpipe. (That straight pipe just goes through the cinder block for the crawlspace.)

At the time, I didn't think much of the implementation, but given a tiny bit more plumbing experience, and I'm not entirely keen on it. However, it has worked for pretty much the past four years as I haven't had any issues until now. So, what happened is that I was getting the SUDS error on my Samsung washer. I had seen this once before, which I completely forgot about at the time, and here's the kicker... I fiddled with the washer drain hose a little bit. This fiddling mostly just involved pulling it out a bit. However, when I finally wised up and checked the drain filter, I found that it had some hair in it as well as folded up $10 bills. Once I removed this and got the washer drain filter back in and working fine, I ran into another problem (i.e. the topic of this topic)... my drain pipe was now overflowing during a simple rinse and spin cycle.

My first thought was that due to changes in my living situation, there's a LOT more hair going into my washer -- similar to what I found in the filter -- and the filter itself doesn't exact have fine filtration capability. Also, since I haven't cleaned that filter in a while, it's plausible that hair has been deposited this whole time, which could have been made worse by the low flow rate caused by the clogged filter. So, I decided to use some drain cleaner (ones formulated to help get rid of hair) on the drain, and it seems to be kind of better; however, it definitely still overflows... or it would if I wasn't watching it like a hawk with my hand over the pause button. Anyway, one other thing has been on my mind... is the real problem the hose's position in the piping? One thing that I read is that the washer's drain hose should be no more than 8" in the standpipe, and I can assure you that the hose was much further than 8" when I first messed with it. What I've been wondering is... did they actually have the drain hose bent through both 90-degree fittings? I've tried to do this myself, but I think I'm just smacking into the second 90-degree fitting and unable to make the bend.

So, to sum everything up...

• The updated plumbing solution for the washer includes a 90-degree bend to a horizontal pipe to a 90-degree bend that finally goes to the "stand pipe".
• After fiddling with the drain hose (i.e. pulling it out a bit) and cleaning the washer's drain filter, the drain overflows after about 10-15 seconds.
  • You can hear gurgling.
  • The closest vent connection is past the p-trap, which is at the bottom of the "stand pipe"
• Is this a problem with...
  • ...a clog?
  • ...the drain hose not going through both 90-degree bends?

I've included the image from my other thread about the water softener that shows the second 90-degree bend and the horizontal pipe. On the other side of the white plastic sheeting is the cinder block, which had a hole put into it to support the washer box. That's where the first 90-degree bend is.

 

[herm0016]

so after that pic, its another 90 pointed up, and then how long of a pipe that the hose is shoved into?
if possible, i think i would cut all that off and shove the pipe into the vertical that is seen in the pic. that is how mine is set up in a similar situation in a split level, the washer hose goes through the wall and into the stand pipe that is actually on the other side of the wall in the room with the boiler and whatnot.

also, liquid drain cleaner is a lie. use a snake.
I would use a screw together in that situation, so that you can clean it out past those 2 90s. I use this type where ever possible. https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1...-P-Trap-with-Union-Joint-C4895HD112/100344844

did you get the softener hooked up?

 

[Aikouka]

so after that pic, its another 90 pointed up, and then how long of a pipe that the hose is shoved into?

From the washer box, it almost immediately goes into a 90-degree bend. It's a lot like how they made the short cut to get the sanitary-tee to go straight into the 90-degree bend for the p-trap in the photo.

if possible, i think i would cut all that off and shove the pipe into the vertical that is seen in the pic. that is how mine is set up in a similar situation in a split level, the washer hose goes through the wall and into the stand pipe that is actually on the other side of the wall in the room with the boiler and whatnot.

I was thinking about doing that, but I wasn't sure if I'd need to be worried about making it a bit easier for bugs to get in. Do you do anything in particular to keep the hole closed off? Or in my case, could I essentially remove the second 90-degree (and maybe a little it of the horizontal pipe before it) and use the first section as a guide and then manually put the hose into the standpipe?

also, liquid drain cleaner is a lie. use a snake.

I've had decent luck with drain cleaner in the past, but that was typically a situation where the shower was draining slowly or something like that.

I've also been trying to look for a snake, but I've had trouble finding anything decent... and not somewhat expensive. It seems you can get plenty of cheap, plastic options, but they're rather short, and especially with the horizontal pipe, I need some decent length. I was tempted to buy this pricier DeWalt unit, but I haven't bit that bullet just yet. What was really holding me back on it was that I wasn't sure if I was really dealing with a clog or just the hose not being far enough in (i.e. not actually in the standpipe, but stuck in that horizontal pipe). The latter would mean I just wasted $400!
https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-5-16-in-dia-x-25-ft-L-Black-Oxide-Machine-Auger/1000978460

I would use a screw together in that situation, so that you can clean it out past those 2 90s. I use this type where ever possible. https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1...-P-Trap-with-Union-Joint-C4895HD112/100344844

That would certainly help. I'm quite fond of unions though. When I replaced the sand filter on the pool, the original PVC plumbing setup had no unions, which meant that it was pretty awful removing or working on anything. Now, I can pretty much remove any component that I want without having to disturb the others. It's quite handy!

did you get the softener hooked up?

Not yet. The gravity-fed overflow drain has been my main hang-up at this point. If I want to run that drain to the sewer line, then it would need to attach low enough that gravity can do its thing. Given that the drain itself is about halfway up the entire unit, there isn't much height to work with. Although, I have considered doing what I did to my dehumidifier that I run in the (encapsulated) crawlspace. It's a model that has a built-in pump, but the pump died on it. So, I bought a Little Giant automatic pump, and it has been working quite well so far. I think I might just do that.

There was also trying to figure out whether I'd need a double sanitary tee (sanitary cross) or a double wye. It seems like it technically doesn't matter, but the recommendation from plumbers is to use the latter because sanitary crosses can sometimes be hard to use with snakes/augers.

I also noticed that the hose bib in the back of the house is tied into the cold water line post softening, so I'll need to redo that to avoid it wearing out the softener and filter. I have a pool, which would accelerate that process quite a bit due to being used for filling.

 

[herm0016]

The 20 dollar manual husky snake works fine for me. No need for the almost the same size and 15x the cost.

 

[Paperdoc]

I agree with the snake idea. And more, with getting a simple modest-size manual model for a small price. Chemical drain cleaners cannot do what a good snake can. If there is a clog, at best the chemical may soften and loosen a small hole through the clog, which still restricts water flow and will re-plug up as anything bigger that plain water flows through.

Look for something like this

https://www.amazon.com/Plumbing-Remover-Glasses-Bathtub-Oosofitt/dp/B08736L7TY/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3ANA8UMGR2Q2S&dchild=1&keywords=drain+snake+25+ft&qid=1616170637&sprefix=drain+snaqke%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-7

That's a 25 Ft long ¼" diameter snake, suitable for sink, tub and shower drains. It is not very good for larger-diameter 3" or 4" drains, but does well for 2" and smaller. I usually run it down the line while turning constantly, pull it out and clean off, the repeat a couple of times so that repeat "attacks" on the clog area will break up as much as possible Then LOTS of flushing once you are confident the main clog has been broken up.

 

[Aikouka]

The 20 dollar manual husky snake works fine for me. No need for the almost the same size and 15x the cost.

+

I agree with the snake idea. And more, with getting a simple modest-size manual model for a small price. Chemical drain cleaners cannot do what a good snake can. If there is a clog, at best the chemical may soften and loosen a small hole through the clog, which still restricts water flow and will re-plug up as anything bigger that plain water flows through.

Look for something like this

https://www.amazon.com/Plumbing-Remover-Glasses-Bathtub-Oosofitt/dp/B08736L7TY/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3ANA8UMGR2Q2S&dchild=1&keywords=drain+snake+25+ft&qid=1616170637&sprefix=drain+snaqke%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-7

That's a 25 Ft long ¼" diameter snake, suitable for sink, tub and shower drains. It is not very good for larger-diameter 3" or 4" drains, but does well for 2" and smaller. I usually run it down the line while turning constantly, pull it out and clean off, the repeat a couple of times so that repeat "attacks" on the clog area will break up as much as possible Then LOTS of flushing once you are confident the main clog has been broken up.

I took a look at them at Lowes last night, and I picked up one that's pretty similar to the linked unit except it does provide a drill attachment. It was just a tiny bit more (~$25), so not much of an extra expense. Although, given that the other unit that they had on the shelf was broken -- likely from being dropped -- I'm not too sure if it will last long.

I also picked up a pipe cutter that should work on the PVC. I've used a hacksaw in the past when removing my pool's booster pump, but it wasn't too pretty of a cut. My current plan is to cut the standpipe down a bit short, put a wye in, put the rest of the vertical pipe in the top of the wye as the standpipe (I'll lose some height when removing it from the 90-degree fitting, so the wye will help with that), and then come off the other end of the wye for the water softener. I ordered the pump, so I'm pretty excited to finally get this project going!

 

[Eno Safirey]

The description of your house is the same as mine and I was having similar problems. I had tried snaking the line and various other homeowner repairs. Finally I had to call in a plumber and he installed a studor vent above the p-trap. This solved my issue.

 

[Aikouka]

I did try snaking the line yesterday, and I don't think I ran into anything. I am pretty sure that I hit the p-trap or went through it, because... well, that odor is hard to miss!

The description of your house is the same as mine and I was having similar problems. I had tried snaking the line and various other homeowner repairs. Finally I had to call in a plumber and he installed a studor vent above the p-trap. This solved my issue.

I was wondering what that was at first, and then I realized that it sounds like the proper name for an air admittance valve. I have one of those on hand due to the original plan for the water softener being to use a the clean-out location with an AAV for venting.

On that note, when I was talking to a friend of mine, his remarks were that, based upon the current design, I was likely lacking venting to help the water flow. It wasn't that I have no venting, but just due to the bends and length of pipe combined with the washer drain hose being shoved all the way in there, the airflow was hindered too much. We talked about doing something like adding an AAV to either the horizontal pipe or replacing the right-angle on the standpipe with a sanitary-tee to allow for tying into the vent at the top. The latter sounds like the "most legitimate" method if I want to keep the current design of everything being connected, which does add convenience of not having to go to the crawlspace if something happens to the hose. This is probably the worst part of plumbing for me. It's so easy for me to get tied up in the correct/"proper" way to do things, and I really would just rather do it correctly the first time.

 

[Aikouka]

As an update, I did cut the PVC on both sides to open up the line, but this didn’t end up working. I tried snaking it through the existing pipe, but I wasn’t very comfortable since I wasn’t too sure where it went. So, since the one area was cut, I was able to remove the standpipe via loosening the clamps. With that gone, I could snake the drain directly.

I had never snaked a drain before, so I’m not sure of the exact technique. However, what I did was pushed through until I felt a sort of “spongy resistance”, locked the snake, pushed it in a bit, rotated the snake for a bit, unlocked the snake, tried to move forward again. I ended up doing that for... well, 25 feet because I found out — the hard way — that the snake doesn’t have a good stop to avoid pulling the whole thing out!

Importantly, after this, I didn’t have any issues with the rinse and spin test. It maybe came up 40% of the way of the stand pipe, but I assume that’s normal given the use of pressure to push the water and the amount coming from the washer. I set up a UniFi Instant camera down in the crawl space so I could watch it while doing a normal run of laundry, and there were no issues.

Although, now I have to clean and fix the snake!

 

[Paperdoc]

What you describe is normal. The spiral tip of the snake normally bores part way into the clog to grab it, then sort of tears pieces of it loose. Some of those are left there to be washed down the line by water flow. Other pieces remain caught in the snake tip, and you can get anything from a small collection of debris to a big clump that comes back up the line snagged in the spiral tip. When I do this job, if possible AFTER I have loosened the clog and BEFORE pulling the snake back, I start a modest flow of water down the line to rinse off the snake as I'm pulling it out. I also use a rag to wipe the snake off before re-coiling it back into its case. And last step often is to un-tangle the junk caught in the tip and rinse that off before final storage.

 

[Aikouka]

What you describe is normal. The spiral tip of the snake normally bores part way into the clog to grab it, then sort of tears pieces of it loose. Some of those are left there to be washed down the line by water flow. Other pieces remain caught in the snake tip, and you can get anything from a small collection of debris to a big clump that comes back up the line snagged in the spiral tip. When I do this job, if possible AFTER I have loosened the clog and BEFORE pulling the snake back, I start a modest flow of water down the line to rinse off the snake as I'm pulling it out. I also use a rag to wipe the snake off before re-coiling it back into its case. And last step often is to un-tangle the junk caught in the tip and rinse that off before final storage.

Yeah, I wasn't too surprised by it having gunk as you'd figure that's a good sign that it was at least running into something that could have been or is still a clog. The reason why I mentioned it is because the first time I put the snake in through the washer's standpipe is that even though I felt a few snags, I never saw any debris. I wasn't sure if that was because the snake traveled through the p-trap's water, or simply went the wrong direction. In regard to the latter, I wasn't sure if it went down the drain or up the vent. That's why I removed the entire pipe section and snaked directly into the drain.

I did rinse off the snake portion, but I'll probably also soak it in some cleaner for a little bit before I reassemble the device. Since it has the drill attachment, I'll have to take it apart to reattach the snake to the drum.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I just read your first post and then the rest of the thread. Venting could be part of the issue, but if you are only now having issues, a clog would seem logical unless something else changed. If this is the lowest point in the system, it may be the first to backup/flood.... As for something else changing....a change of detergent may cause more suds than before. Not sure how HE detergent compared to concentrated is for suds.

I hate those spiral/spring snakes and recommend the steel tape kind. They typically have a metal triangle at the leading end and it does the best to push through clogs in the line. The ones I hit were usually flushable feminine products that got lodged by renters.

I haven't done much with standpipes, but I moved mine to the opposite side of my laundry room and used the old drain/vent for a sink. I then vented the standpipe up over the ceiling and tied it into the old vent.... specifically because I didn't want to deal with venting issues. On a -3 degree day, my standpipe trap froze solid, so I didn't want any other issues where my dumb washer pumped its contents out on the floor.

Good luck.

 

[Aikouka]

So, it seems like my clogging escapades haven't stopped yet. I had placed a bucket under the standpipe, and when I checked it a week or so ago, I noticed that it was almost full and there was a bit of water in the area. (It likely splashed out or missed the bucket.) When I went through and put the drain auger through again, I had a bucket of water with me that I'd dump down after rotating the auger. One thing that I noticed when pulling the unit back a bit is that I had some white gunk on the line, which looks a bit like congealed grease. (I'd think that I'm rather good at not dumping grease down the drain.) That attempt to clean the drain line didn't really seem to work as it just failed again after I did my laundry (the bucket was maybe 15-20% full).

One thing that I did find interesting is that I was able to take that bucket of water and just dump it into an unused shower inside that should only be about 6-7 feet ahead of the clean out point that I'm using, and I had no signs of back-ups. When I was dumping water into the clean-out from the same bucket, I kept having to stop because it was about to overflow. (It did get better as I kept going, but never worked flawlessly.)

As noted in a reply to a comment below, I did purchase a different unit with twice the length (25' -> 50') and more tool options. There's also a good 30' of pipe behind the clean-out that goes to the kitchen. I'd like to try to ensure that the kitchen's stretch is clean too, so I may either go the opposite direction or use the other clean-out that's further back.

I hate those spiral/spring snakes and recommend the steel tape kind. They typically have a metal triangle at the leading end and it does the best to push through clogs in the line. The ones I hit were usually flushable feminine products that got lodged by renters.

It seems like you can't purchase a simple unit that has interchangeable heads. All the cheaper units that I find have that boring, spiral head like you describe, and it seems that you have to go for a higher-end unit to get more options. I picked up a manual feed unit at Harbor Freight earlier. I debated their auto-feed unit, which was marked down quite a bit (only $50 more), but given my past experience with manual feeds, I actually like the idea of being able to feel when I hit a blockage. I also noticed that there are some nifty attachments that you can get on Amazon to potentially make it better.

I haven't done much with standpipes, but I moved mine to the opposite side of my laundry room and used the old drain/vent for a sink. I then vented the standpipe up over the ceiling and tied it into the old vent.... specifically because I didn't want to deal with venting issues. On a -3 degree day, my standpipe trap froze solid, so I didn't want any other issues where my dumb washer pumped its contents out on the floor.

This reminds me of a project that is a bit low on the priority list, but it's something that I think would add some nice value to the house. A 3/4 bathroom runs parallel right beside the utility room where the washer and dryer are. The shower is pretty much never used, so I could remove it, wall it off, and cut an opening into the utility room. That new alcove could serve as a good spot for a stacking washer and dryer setup. It has the water already, and I believe there's already a drain pipe coming down from upstairs. (There's a bathroom almost right above that one.) If that's the case, I'd need to slightly rework the plumbing and run the electrical, but it would help me alleviate how the utility room is just too narrow. It literally has just enough room to put both units side-by-side (with the requested spacing); however, if I ever redo the wall in that room, which I'd like to do, I wouldn't have enough room.

 

[Scarpozzi]

So, it seems like my clogging escapades haven't stopped yet. I had placed a bucket under the standpipe, and when I checked it a week or so ago, I noticed that it was almost full and there was a bit of water in the area. (It likely splashed out or missed the bucket.) When I went through and put the drain auger through again, I had a bucket of water with me that I'd dump down after rotating the auger. One thing that I noticed when pulling the unit back a bit is that I had some white gunk on the line, which looks a bit like congealed grease. (I'd think that I'm rather good at not dumping grease down the drain.) That attempt to clean the drain line didn't really seem to work as it just failed again after I did my laundry (the bucket was maybe 15-20% full).

One thing that I did find interesting is that I was able to take that bucket of water and just dump it into an unused shower inside that should only be about 6-7 feet ahead of the clean out point that I'm using, and I had no signs of back-ups. When I was dumping water into the clean-out from the same bucket, I kept having to stop because it was about to overflow. (It did get better as I kept going, but never worked flawlessly.)

As noted in a reply to a comment below, I did purchase a different unit with twice the length (25' -> 50') and more tool options. There's also a good 30' of pipe behind the clean-out that goes to the kitchen. I'd like to try to ensure that the kitchen's stretch is clean too, so I may either go the opposite direction or use the other clean-out that's further back.



It seems like you can't purchase a simple unit that has interchangeable heads. All the cheaper units that I find have that boring, spiral head like you describe, and it seems that you have to go for a higher-end unit to get more options. I picked up a manual feed unit at Harbor Freight earlier. I debated their auto-feed unit, which was marked down quite a bit (only $50 more), but given my past experience with manual feeds, I actually like the idea of being able to feel when I hit a blockage. I also noticed that there are some nifty attachments that you can get on Amazon to potentially make it better.



This reminds me of a project that is a bit low on the priority list, but it's something that I think would add some nice value to the house. A 3/4 bathroom runs parallel right beside the utility room where the washer and dryer are. The shower is pretty much never used, so I could remove it, wall it off, and cut an opening into the utility room. That new alcove could serve as a good spot for a stacking washer and dryer setup. It has the water already, and I believe there's already a drain pipe coming down from upstairs. (There's a bathroom almost right above that one.) If that's the case, I'd need to slightly rework the plumbing and run the electrical, but it would help me alleviate how the utility room is just too narrow. It literally has just enough room to put both units side-by-side (with the requested spacing); however, if I ever redo the wall in that room, which I'd like to do, I wouldn't have enough room.

The white grease sounds like it may be soap residue from laundry detergent or residue from fabric softener. Do you use a lot of fabric softener? I remember attempting to clean the fabric softener dispenser cup on my washers over the years and there's a definite grease-like substance that forms around the top where the lettering is....perhaps that's actually from layers of detergent that splashes up and dries between cycles. Really hot water helped, but ultimately, it likely takes a brush and elbow grease to remove that.

Additionally, with all of the soap residue, remember that you also have fabric fibers and hair both in the water and also in the air (in the form of lint) that will stick to things and cause all kinds of weirdness in those pipes. Maybe you could pour some industrial pipe cleaner down there.

For the tape-style snake...I never had one with interchangeable heads. It just had a piece of metal in the shape of a triangle to allow it to be directed through the pipes. As long as you have good codes and the drains use compound Y's to keep your snake going in the right direction, you should be good. I still think you should go to the roof and snake your vents for kicks, then hit them with a water hose to make sure they're draining. Birds and other animals sometimes cause problems up there...

 

[Aikouka]

The white grease sounds like it may be soap residue from laundry detergent or residue from fabric softener. Do you use a lot of fabric softener? I remember attempting to clean the fabric softener dispenser cup on my washers over the years and there's a definite grease-like substance that forms around the top where the lettering is....perhaps that's actually from layers of detergent that splashes up and dries between cycles. Really hot water helped, but ultimately, it likely takes a brush and elbow grease to remove that.

Additionally, with all of the soap residue, remember that you also have fabric fibers and hair both in the water and also in the air (in the form of lint) that will stick to things and cause all kinds of weirdness in those pipes. Maybe you could pour some industrial pipe cleaner down there.

Hm, that's a good point. I can say that my pipe has a nice amount of that gunk on the walls, and I could see other stuff such as hairs getting stuck to it. One thing that I also thought about is that I have recently cleared clogs out of other places such as the upstairs bathroom, and I wondered if some of that gunk just moved down and got stuck further down?

One thing I also thought about is the outdoor clean-out. My neighbor ran over it with a mower awhile back, which destroyed the cover, and I kept forgetting to buy a new cover. It's plausible that something could get into my drain from there. Also, that serves as another point to clean from.

For the tape-style snake...I never had one with interchangeable heads. It just had a piece of metal in the shape of a triangle to allow it to be directed through the pipes. As long as you have good codes and the drains use compound Y's to keep your snake going in the right direction, you should be good.

The new one that I bought has a head like you're describing. It's sort of like an arrowhead. It also comes with a head that's designed to scrape against the side of the pipe to help with stuff like grease.

I still think you should go to the roof and snake your vents for kicks, then hit them with a water hose to make sure they're draining. Birds and other animals sometimes cause problems up there...

A couple things have come to mind...

• I thought it was interesting that I could pour the bucket of water into the shower's drain without any issues. Although, I don't think the shower uses the same vent as the washing machine's standpipe. I'm assuming the downstairs bathroom is tied into the upstairs bathroom's vent, so I guess that would make it a wet vent? This is my guess because I've never seen a vent for the downstairs bathroom, but I know the upstairs bathroom has one as I worked right beside it when I installed a new exhaust fan.
• Wouldn't seeing drain issues when pouring from a bucket show that the vent isn't likely the issue? I'm assuming that if I were to be pouring into an open pipe then it would pull in air from the crawlspace in lieu of the vent.
• I did notice some of the same white gunk in the rubber gasket that connects to the vent. My guess is that the drain also backs up into the vent a bit (at least up to the same height) and probably leaves residue. Regardless of whether it's a problem, it's probably a good idea to try to clean it out a bit!

 

[Scarpozzi]

Is your laundry closer to the sewer line than your shower?

If you go outside, can you see the vent pipe over your laundry sticking out of the roof?

Good luck figuring it out. These drain issues are a pain when things don't work. It is possible that a clog moved downstream...or that another backup even caused debris to move up a vent and get stuck there. Weird stuff can happen in non-pressurized lines. If you can snake from the vent, that may help a lot....

 

[paperfist]

It would be helpful to see a picture of all the associated plumbing. I can't really picture where the vent is. Most codes call for it to be 6' from fixtures.

Do you have anything else with waste backup issues?

You could still have a clog somewhere, you can rent 50' to 100' motorized snakes for $50-75 and do your main line.

 

[Aikouka]

Is your laundry closer to the sewer line than your shower?

This is somewhat based upon my guesstimate of the way things flow, but the shower should be closer to the point where it dumps into the city sewer. It seems like it goes from the washer under the utility room where it meets up with the downstairs bathroom. After that, it likely travels to the other end of the garage where it bends to go toward the street. The outside clean-out is in-line with that guess as it is at the front of the house on the far side of the garage.

If you go outside, can you see the vent pipe over your laundry sticking out of the roof?

I'm pretty sure I've seen it up there before. I can take a look the next time I'm up there and also check out the other vent just for safe measure. It's going to rain a bit here throughout this week, so I may not get a chance until later.

Good luck figuring it out. These drain issues are a pain when things don't work. It is possible that a clog moved downstream...or that another backup even caused debris to move up a vent and get stuck there. Weird stuff can happen in non-pressurized lines. If you can snake from the vent, that may help a lot....

I did go through and try again with the 50-foot motorized auger that I purchased from Harbor Freight; however, in typical fashion, the unit was defective out of the box. Its cable was wound around itself inside the drum and I couldn't pull more than about 15 feet. I could tear the unit apart to fix it (getting into the drum isn't easy from what I could tell), but ugh... I should've known it was a mistake to buy anything other than a simple tool from Harbor Freight.

It would be helpful to see a picture of all the associated plumbing. I can't really picture where the vent is. Most codes call for it to be 6' from fixtures.

I've got a photo in the first post if that's sufficient. If a different vantage point would be helpful, let me know, and I'll try to get something good.

Do you have anything else with waste backup issues?

The shower upstairs was having a back-up issue. This shower should be located right after the downstairs one. So, it likely goes...

washing machine drain -- ~8 feet -- downstairs shower -- ~2 feet -- upstairs bathroom

I originally used a cleaner in the upstairs shower, but that didn't work. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had originally had pretty good luck with basic cleaners, but I guess changes in my living situation likely require a better solution. So, I used one of those simple plastic tools that are meant to clean out a fixture's P-trap, and I did manage to pull out a good bit of gunk. After that, I didn't have any more problems in that shower.

Although, I'm not sure if I managed to toss some smaller bits of gunk further down that might've gotten caught. When I emptied my washer's p-trap this weekend to do some drain cleaning, I actually had chunks of white gunk come out that point to what @Scarpozzi mentioned about it potentially being congealed detergent/soap. I thought it was interesting and surprising that it gunked up so much given that it had only been a week since I last cleaned it!

You could still have a clog somewhere, you can rent 50' to 100' motorized snakes for $50-75 and do your main line.

I did try that with the Harbor Freight unit, but it didn't end up going well. One problem that I ran into is that the auger seemed to work the best when I positioned it facing the direction of the pipe's flow. The problem is that the area in question doesn't really work well that way because the iron waste pipe is above ground until right beyond that clean-out. That's why I originally had it positioned to the side. (I still kept it within the recommended two feet to avoid tangling/twisting.) That worked well for a good 10 feet until the cable would start whipping around and trying to twist around my hand.

My biggest worry about just renting a tool is that I have ran into issues even after things seemed fine. Although, it could be worth a shot. Home Depot has a manual feed and an auto-feed option that seem decent. The latter also has a guard to potentially help reduce whipping. Although, I do wonder if part of the problem with prior cleanings is that I was using those simple, hand-held drain augers, which have a small boring bulb on the end. I figure that the small bulb might not cover enough of the area of a 2" pipe.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I can't remember if I clicked or saw the picture before I did all my replies....but I just checked it out. I think I read everything, but most-importantly, you made it sound like this has worked for a while....so it made me think...it WAS working and something has changed.

Anyhow....what looks odd to me is what I'm assuming is the vent in that picture. The gray pipe with the double dose of ferco fittings making it go to a 45 degree angle?.

If that's just your vent line, you could take a screwdriver and remove the fernco fittings within a few minutes....make sure the line looks clean/clear and put it back.... Just a thought, but I wonder if the pipe is clean around there and you might have more access to check it from there. I agree the 90 degree turns are bad. The point of the standpipe is to have enough vertical pipe to help encourage the line to clear since water is being pumped from the wash tub.

 

[Aikouka]

I can't remember if I clicked or saw the picture before I did all my replies....but I just checked it out. I think I read everything, but most-importantly, you made it sound like this has worked for a while....so it made me think...it WAS working and something has changed.

It did seem to work for a while... even after the one contractor changed it to the weird plumbing setup. Although, my girlfriend has been living with me for about a year along with her two kids. All three of them have far more hair than I do (a bit of a sore subject sometimes 😋), and she grooms dogs. So, it's safe to say that there's likely a lot more hair being introduced to the sewage pipes. I didn't get to put much of the Harbor Freight auger into the piping due to the twist in the line, but it did nab a bit of what I assume is clumped-up hair.

Anyhow....what looks odd to me is what I'm assuming is the vent in that picture. The gray pipe with the double dose of ferco fittings making it go to a 45 degree angle?.

Yes, that is the vent. It goes from that position at a 45-degree angle to the wall (about 3-4 feet away) and goes vertical up to the roof. I think I read something that vents are supposed to at least be at a 45-degree angle when traveling? I can't remember for sure as I've been bouncing all over trying to pick up some knowledge.

If that's just your vent line, you could take a screwdriver and remove the fernco fittings within a few minutes....make sure the line looks clean/clear and put it back.... Just a thought, but I wonder if the pipe is clean around there and you might have more access to check it from there. I agree the 90 degree turns are bad. The point of the standpipe is to have enough vertical pipe to help encourage the line to clear since water is being pumped from the wash tub.

I did go up on the roof last night and send the hand-held auger down the vent. It seems like it did run into some sort of blockage at some point, which I bored out. I knew that there was some white gunk on the inside of the vent due to seeing it when removing the all the piping between those rubber joints. I usually snake from where the bottom rubber joint is, which is below the photo's framing.

 

[paperfist]

I did see your picture, but wanted to see if possible how everything connects. It's obviously easier to visualize everything that way.

The problem with those (and I'm not a plumber) 45 degree runs is they can push water (or pull) to fast and cause the traps to not have any water in them to prevent gas from coming up.

Vents should go straight up to the roof. They just bring air into the system so the traps can function.

Yeah, those hand held snakes can only do so much. The rental ones are easy to use and they basically whip around the inside of the pipes to clean them out. The ones I've used have the snake in that round cage. You step on the on/off pedal and it spins that cage, but you have to manually pull out and feed the snake into the drain. I always run a hose with water on full blast to help clear the drains.

Do you have trees in your yard where the water and sewer come in?

 

[Aikouka]

I did see your picture, but wanted to see if possible how everything connects. It's obviously easier to visualize everything that way.

I can try to get some better photos tonight of how everything goes together.

The problem with those (and I'm not a plumber) 45 degree runs is they can push water (or pull) to fast and cause the traps to not have any water in them to prevent gas from coming up.

Vents should go straight up to the roof. They just bring air into the system so the traps can function.

I can say that the p-trap for the washing machine has had water in it every time that I've looked at it. All gray piping that you see is 1.5" and is strictly for (dry) venting purposes only (i.e. no wet vents). I don't know if that makes the 45-degree bend less problematic?

Yeah, those hand held snakes can only do so much. The rental ones are easy to use and they basically whip around the inside of the pipes to clean them out. The ones I've used have the snake in that round cage. You step on the on/off pedal and it spins that cage, but you have to manually pull out and feed the snake into the drain. I always run a hose with water on full blast to help clear the drains.

I was thinking about it when reading your reply, and I guess -- in a sense -- that round cage around the line is almost like a malleable pipe. I recall seeing a product photo where the person using the drain auger had a pipe jammed into what looked like a toilet flange, and put the auger line into the pipe. Thinking about it... that's pretty much all that metal cage does is act like that pipe. That did make me wonder if I could have fixed some of my issues with the Harbor Freight unit by attaching a pipe to the clean-out point and have it bend toward where the drain auger was sitting. That would mean that auger wouldn't have been fed in perpendicular to the immediate direction of the pipe.

Also, the Harbor Freight unit's directions don't mention anything about the line lock (the screw where the line comes out of the machine). When reading the manual for a unit at Home Depot, it actually mentions the lock and what to do with it.

Do you have trees in your yard where the water and sewer come in?

I don't think so. There is a small... I think it's a bonsai tree (never been too sure what it is) close to where the drain runs, but that's probably the closest thing with larger roots. There is a tree in my neighbor's yard, but it's a bit further away. Those should be fairly close to the front clean-out port, so I could try seeing if my endoscope could look down there. It's not super effective at navigating pipes, but it does an okay job.

 

[Aikouka]

Apologies for the delay, but I’ve attached a few photos showing the the length of the run including the vent. I do want to eventually go back and clean up the cut that I made and use something like a union to make it so I can detach without having to cut.

I can say that I’ve been checking the bucket ever so often, and I haven’t noticed any sort of water in it at all. I guess it’s plausible that the Harbor Freight unit’s significantly larger boring head simply did a far better job clearing out any blockage.