Wasteland 2 is looking more awesome by the update

[hardhat]

It's pretty obvious that originally they were planning for very limited ammo supply, so getting the ammo for ARs for more than one character wouldn't be viable. Unfortunately, that vision was abandoned in the balance passes, and weapon stats were only adjusted on early weapons. Blunt isn't so bad early in the game, but gets significantly worse once you get to the second map. Pistols are 'ok' early game, but really useless later. And ARs are always overpowered after your first M16.

 

[DigDog]

I fail to get how so many smart people working on it could mess up balance so badly.

my guess is that they had too many people working on it. balance was easier back when one or two guys were doing all the work, because they knew what did what and how much. nowadays the guy who designs the skill system is probably not the same guy who does the gun damages and also not the same guy who does the monster's hp.

 

[Silverforce11]

It's pretty obvious that originally they were planning for very limited ammo supply, so getting the ammo for ARs for more than one character wouldn't be viable. Unfortunately, that vision was abandoned in the balance passes, and weapon stats were only adjusted on early weapons. Blunt isn't so bad early in the game, but gets significantly worse once you get to the second map. Pistols are 'ok' early game, but really useless later. And ARs are always overpowered after your first M16.

Ammo is kind of limiting through out most of the early to mid-game, making 4 AR users impractical. But here's the thing, one MG gunner uses more ammo than two AR gunners. So currently its wasting more ammo for less damage. Really poor balance overall and the lack of mods for MGs looks like they just ran out of time to implement features.

Its definitely a case of the game being designed with AR in mind, as it gets most mods and other weapons are added after the fact.

When you play it on Ranger or especially Supreme Jerk, if you don't have mostly AR guys, its suicidal because you deal much less damage per round, making weapons that waste more ammo even worse than it already is.

 

[DigDog]

do you earn more XP on ranger difficulty?

 

[Mopetar]

It's pretty obvious that originally they were planning for very limited ammo supply, so getting the ammo for ARs for more than one character wouldn't be viable. Unfortunately, that vision was abandoned in the balance passes, and weapon stats were only adjusted on early weapons. Blunt isn't so bad early in the game, but gets significantly worse once you get to the second map. Pistols are 'ok' early game, but really useless later. And ARs are always overpowered after your first M16.

I've found that blunt is better than almost anything else in the late game simply because the weapons do a lot of damage and have good armor penetration. There isn't any blade weapon I've found that can compete with a modded Plasma Hammer, especially against armored enemies, of which there are a lot in the second half of the game. The high critical damage multiplier also synergizes well with the mod that adds critical hit chance.

For 4 AP I can swing for 55 - 75 damage that ignores armor and has a ~33% chance to crit for 3.5x as much damage. It actually works well to give my second sniper that weapon and some heavy armor because the AI will often try to run right next to him while he has his rifle out, but when I swap to the hammer, I can usually wreck 1 or 2 enemies in a single turn depending on RNG.

ARs are still good, but I've found that Energy weapons can give them a run for their money, especially against armored foes. Of course I haven't switched over to the more powerful ARs due to a lack of the new ammo type, but that's not that big of a problem since I've found that the automatic shotguns are basically as good as an AR and can chew through a pack of enemies pretty easily. A character with high move speed, a lot of action points, and a shotgun can do a lot of work.

 

[coloumb]

FFS...there sure is A LOT of junk in this game. As a pack rat - I just can't cope having to re-organize my character's inventory so they aren't overburdened by the weight.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Disagree about the blunt though. I have two guys rocking Plasma Hammers or whatever they are called, and with 4AP per swing they usually do about 150-200 dmg per turn which is reasonable. The key though is their crit damage which is devastating. I've had it push 300 and it does this reasonably often. It also does concussion.

Here's my take on it

Assault Rifles - Best in the game. Huge range, reasonable damage, lots of mods, and pretty good AP cost for the damage they supply. Because of the range you can get out of danger easier too.

Sniper - Seems pointless, AR's do the same thing. Maybe slightly better accuracy but less crit chance and no burst. What is the point??

Pistols - Useful early to mid game, but totally agree they lack punch late game. Also the AP cost for the better pistols is too high. Yeah some of them have 3AP but what's the point if they do no damage, you're just wasting ammo. The better ones have 4 or 5 AP but by then you may as well just use an AR.

Energy - Useful against mobs with high armor so it is good to have one in the team and have a second person having this skill as secondary. But this skill really is useless for at least half the game and only comes into real use quite late in the show. And even then AR's can do the job.

Blunt - I don't mind this. Those plasma hammers circa level 30 do serious critical damage and hit critical often enough to be useful. They are only 4AP as well with mods and with a guy with 10AP and decent speed and high armor it's viable.

Blade - Useless. Possibly the worst of the lot. Weak weapons, doesn't do concussion (bleeding is not useful during combat). No point.

Brawling - Haven't used it but hear it's actually quite effective.

Shot Guns - Good for crowd damage and they have quite low AP, but their limited range and the need to move around so you don't do friendly damage makes them not useful imo. Plus you're much better off killing a single mob than doing minor damage to several.

Heavy Weapons - Useless. No mods, heavy, chews ammo, low accuracy.

SMG - Useless early and mid game. Slightly better late game with the increase damage but the lack of range means you're just a poor cousin to the AR. To use these you often need to place yourself in a bad position. Nope nope nope.

 

[Dahak]

Patch 2 got released
http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/99930440396/wasteland-2-patch-2-58154-release-notes

Highlights

- Large amount of memory optimizations, particularly with audio, to improve performance and stability on lower-spec systems and 32-bit operating systems.
- Fixed enemy “unlimited AP” movement bug that allowed them to sometimes move much farther than intended.
- Extensive improvements and fixes to California questlines, particularly in Hollywood and Griffith Park. May require you to load an older save file before Hollywood to fully benefit.
- Added a travel speed toggle to the world map, allowing you to zip and zoom around if you so please (doesn't affect encounters, only travel speed).
- Added a new UI when CNPCs are recruited. This lets you more easily compare their stats and choose to dismiss one when a new one offers to join.
- Custom portraits will now work correctly when Windows account username contains non-English characters.
- Added support for "Very Large" text.
- Added 50 messages to load screens containing gameplay hints and tips.
- Loading now continues when the game is tabbed out, and pauses after finishing.
- Further UI fixes and improvements, such as new and correctly used icons.
- Many localization updates and bug fixes across all languages.

 

[Mopetar]

I haven't had the time to play since the patch came out. Did they do anything to balance the weapons?

 

[EvilNeverSleeps]

Got some nice time with Wasteland 2 but in regards to weapon balance, it sucked a bit.

No changes have been made balance-wise to weapons.

BTW: Dat Gamma Ray gun is so much fun =)

 

[DigDog]

so, do you guys get more exp at higher difficulties?

because i'm shooting for 12AP/round. the death ray cripples everything with AC5+, doing 200 damage per shot .. at 6AP per shot.

 

[coloumb]

so, do you guys get more exp at higher difficulties?

because i'm shooting for 12AP/round. the death ray cripples everything with AC5+, doing 200 damage per shot .. at 6AP per shot.

I have noticed that I'm calling in more often [equates to leveling up more often].

 

[Mem]

Got some nice time with Wasteland 2 but in regards to weapon balance, it sucked a bit.

No changes have been made balance-wise to weapons.

BTW: Dat Gamma Ray gun is so much fun =)

I was getting a bit annoyed with weapons jamming up too much in combat like three of my squad round after round ,so basically enemies were getting lot of free combat rounds where I could do nothing unless I went melee,anyway decided to attached mods to reduce chance of jamming.

 

[Silverforce11]

Disagree about the blunt though. I have two guys rocking Plasma Hammers or whatever they are called, and with 4AP per swing they usually do about 150-200 dmg per turn which is reasonable. The key though is their crit damage which is devastating. I've had it push 300 and it does this reasonably often. It also does concussion.

Here's my take on it

Assault Rifles - Best in the game. Huge range, reasonable damage, lots of mods, and pretty good AP cost for the damage they supply. Because of the range you can get out of danger easier too.

Sniper - Seems pointless, AR's do the same thing. Maybe slightly better accuracy but less crit chance and no burst. What is the point??

Pistols - Useful early to mid game, but totally agree they lack punch late game. Also the AP cost for the better pistols is too high. Yeah some of them have 3AP but what's the point if they do no damage, you're just wasting ammo. The better ones have 4 or 5 AP but by then you may as well just use an AR.

Energy - Useful against mobs with high armor so it is good to have one in the team and have a second person having this skill as secondary. But this skill really is useless for at least half the game and only comes into real use quite late in the show. And even then AR's can do the job.

Blunt - I don't mind this. Those plasma hammers circa level 30 do serious critical damage and hit critical often enough to be useful. They are only 4AP as well with mods and with a guy with 10AP and decent speed and high armor it's viable.

Blade - Useless. Possibly the worst of the lot. Weak weapons, doesn't do concussion (bleeding is not useful during combat). No point.

Brawling - Haven't used it but hear it's actually quite effective.

Shot Guns - Good for crowd damage and they have quite low AP, but their limited range and the need to move around so you don't do friendly damage makes them not useful imo. Plus you're much better off killing a single mob than doing minor damage to several.

Heavy Weapons - Useless. No mods, heavy, chews ammo, low accuracy.

SMG - Useless early and mid game. Slightly better late game with the increase damage but the lack of range means you're just a poor cousin to the AR. To use these you often need to place yourself in a bad position. Nope nope nope.

I fully agree with all your assessment and felt the same when I played it. I've got about 120 hours in WL2 already and have stopped because the poor weapon balance really limits many builds, in particular on Ranger & Sup Jerk difficulty where its very punishing unless you roll with overpowered ARs.

Anyhow, I'm hex editing the weapons data in the database file and it works, can change a lot of the stats. I'm in the process of rebalancing pistols, AR, MGs, SMG and energy weapon (only GRB is good!), if you guys are interested I'll post the link to the mod file as well as a list of changes.

I have no experience with melee combat so I dont wanna mess with what I don't know well, but I'll be happy to take some suggestions to fix glaring imbalances if you guys have any ideas.

 

[coloumb]

Finished the game a few days ago - "fallout 3" type ending montage reviewing what I did and didn't do and the side effects.

Overall a very enjoyable game that fed my need to open up safes, lockers, etc. Sure - most of the contents was junk - but it was still fun nonetheless.

Hollywood area and "end game area" seemed "rushed" and unfinished. Hollywood area was very buggy [I couldn't finish Victoria questline].

I may play through again only if I can min/max my group's stats so I don't have to waste time in combat - I'm more interested to see outcome of different decisions.

 

[Silverforce11]

Here's the weapon re-balance mod!

http://steamcommunity.com/app/240760/discussions/0/613939841539505158/

 

[DigDog]

my problem is that i was hoping W2 would be a system base to use with modules, a la Neverwinter Nights.

you'd get a leveling system, attributes, equipment, mobs, portraits, guns, environments, scripts, and dialogue options, and then modders can go crazy and put out a ton of adventure modules for you to play. but i don't see this working in W2.

first, the accuracy and damage output of the weapons depends too much on the mods, which depends on the weaponsmithing skill and the drops (and luck); you start with a hard rating which *slowly* goes up as you pump the skill and add mods.

this is obviously dependent on the way the campaign give you items. it forces a potential modder to give you items in pretty much the same order unless he wants players to wind up with OP player characters.

the critical failure and save scumming don't really work for me, it could have been easier to randomize everything when first entering a level and then saving it, as Angband does.

Skills and the way they work is debatable; in W1 you would get +attributes when levelling and skills would increase by use, and to me that progression mean you would get better as you levelled, but you also had to put yourself in situations where you'd get a workout, unless you wanted to get to the final stage with 60 CON and Rifleman 1. Having low skills in W2 is generally bad, as you will likely fail a critical chance and lock yourself out of whatever you were doing.

the navigation / environment / camera is not totally horrible, but it could have been much better .. it should have been better. It makes moving around quite slow, its hard to see small details, and everything is so crowded i doubt you could use the resources in the devkit to make anything that didn't look *exactly* like W2 does.

Brian Fargo is obviously a guy with a strong imagination, but it shows here he doesn't have competence with modern engines. Lots of stuff is lost in the detail, hard to read, hard to see, or just not captivating.
I mean come on, those cutscenes, right out of last decade. The scorpitron which is supposedly the symbol of W2 was so lame and introduced so badly, and it didnt move AND it was just plain bad when fighting it.

They should - imho - have gone with a simpler, and more classic, D&D style RPG, easier to mod, with a solid leveling / equipment system, a cleaner, larger UI, separate combat and exploration environments (or at least a sneak/stealth system, and party formation), and a text/journal/map system overhaul.

 

[AdamK47]

Look at what I got in the mail today.

 

[Worthington]

Nice, I'm waiting for mine still