Wasteland 2 is looking more awesome by the update

[irishScott]

I'm in AG infected trying to work my way through the fields and got slaughtered........god I love this game; nice old school feel; need for tactics and the fact you need to watch your ammo

This. I got my first M2, handed it to my heavy weapons guy and let loose with the 8-round 5.56 bursts. Effectively one-shoted many baddies, but used up all his ammunition in one encounter. Fortunately he had brawling as a backup skill.

 

[you2]

I found those but no clue what to do with them ?

I'm quite fond of the contact lenses that I got out of a toaster that took 15 minutes to crack.

 

[BurnItDwn]

This. I got my first M2, handed it to my heavy weapons guy and let loose with the 8-round 5.56 bursts. Effectively one-shoted many baddies, but used up all his ammunition in one encounter. Fortunately he had brawling as a backup skill.

Youch ...

If I used up all my 5.56 in one encounter it would hurt a lot ...

I have been sticking to the most Damage per Ammo rather than Damage per AP...
Some expections I make (exceptionally tough encounters I will use burst mode), but no M2s yet here ... I did equip 3 of my people with M4s with small scopes, steady mag, and flashlights, (one with long barrel, one with short barrel, but don't have many barrel upgrades made yet, though Im only 15 or so hours into my game .. second attempt after my first attempt with focus on using smgs and shotguns was not such a smart move ... )

 

[Worthington]

I've stripped dozens upon of weapons, to the point of vendoring steady mags, small scopes and high capacity mags.... have yet to see a flashlight.

 

[Dumac]

I've stripped dozens upon of weapons, to the point of vendoring steady mags, small scopes and high capacity mags.... have yet to see a flashlight.

Wow, I have weaponsmithing of 4 (via Angie or whatever her name is) and didn't know you could even strip weapons for parts. I need to read things more carefully.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I've stripped dozens upon of weapons, to the point of vendoring steady mags, small scopes and high capacity mags.... have yet to see a flashlight.

Really? I'm right at the end of the AG center and I think I've found maybe 4 mods total, and 2 of those are flashlights. Did I just get really lucky? (To be fair I probably have 4-5 weapons I need to strip down, but have been pushing to get the cure.)

 

[Mopetar]

Right now it seems like Assault Rifles are so much better than everything else, especially once you finish your first mission and can buy from the vendor inside the Ranger Citadel. The M16 does over 30 damage per shot and the burst mode can shred even the tougher individual targets.

The only downside is that the hit chance falls off when an enemy gets in close, but you don't have to move far in order to solve that problem and because it seems like enemies like to try to rush anyone with an assault or sniper rifle, it makes it easy to damage them at range and then polish them off with a shotgun user when they all clump up near your other party members.

I almost want to start kitting out the whole party to be able to use assault rifles as they just seem so much better than almost everything else right now. Maybe the other weapons start to catch up (the same vendor sells a really good handgun as well) later on, but during the early game they seem too good to pass up, especially with Angela having a lot of points in Assault Rifles already.

 

[datalink7]

I've stripped dozens upon of weapons, to the point of vendoring steady mags, small scopes and high capacity mags.... have yet to see a flashlight.

Odd. First two things I got were flashlights. Took me the longest time to get a High Capacity Mag.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Right now it seems like Assault Rifles are so much better than everything else, especially once you finish your first mission and can buy from the vendor inside the Ranger Citadel. The M16 does over 30 damage per shot and the burst mode can shred even the tougher individual targets.

The only downside is that the hit chance falls off when an enemy gets in close, but you don't have to move far in order to solve that problem and because it seems like enemies like to try to rush anyone with an assault or sniper rifle, it makes it easy to damage them at range and then polish them off with a shotgun user when they all clump up near your other party members.

I almost want to start kitting out the whole party to be able to use assault rifles as they just seem so much better than almost everything else right now. Maybe the other weapons start to catch up (the same vendor sells a really good handgun as well) later on, but during the early game they seem too good to pass up, especially with Angela having a lot of points in Assault Rifles already.

AR are the best in the game...at least for me they are 30 hours into it. Strong range, and burst mode just rips people to pieces. But of course you cannot equip everyone with an AR as you won't have enough ammo. I have two people with AR, one melee guy, one SMG (useless IMO), one energy (only good for high armor mobs), and one pistol (very useful, good for a medic), and one sniper (sniper seems redundant imo, the AR with a long barrel has similar range and can burst)

They need to balance the weapons more.

 

[Jumpem]

So the retail release is today. Amazon is estimating my delivery as next Monday.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

The M16's range is 1m further than the Bullpup Sniper. :|

 

[DigDog]

Finally got my hands on this. I'm severely disappointed.

I just completed the AG center quest, sidetracked to Highpool. I'm about to start a new party.

Brace yourselves, monster post incoming.

 

[KMFJD]

Finally got my hands on this. I'm severely disappointed.

I just completed the AG center quest, sidetracked to Highpool. I'm about to start a new party.

Brace yourselves, monster post incoming.

I've rerolled my party about 4 times now after AG/Highpool.... finally found a good balance, min of 4 int on each character.

 

[DigDog]

So i finally managed to get myself a (basic) copy of the game.

I'm a few hours in and my opinions are not teh best.

I started out with a balanced group; i had the most ludicrous group of badasses in W1, so i have some idea of what works or doesnt, or so i thought.
One leader, with ledaership, speech options, charisma, intelligence, with balanced stats.
One bruiser, with strenght, blunt, outdoorsman, repair.
One scout, with perception, sniper, locks/bombs/alarms/safecracking, "agility".
One medic, with surgeon/field, rounded stats biased for hp.

All have guns skills; none has any extreme weakness. no stat dumping, no minmaxing, just wise stat allocation for their role, and nobody is inefficient.

I immediately wiped upon encountering the first miniboss, the toad. I'm playing on medium difficulty, and i was all healed, prepared, reloaded, crouched, for the fight.
I tried 3 more times and then i just hit him with a mangler(!!) i had found.

Conversation. TONS of *useless* conversation. Backstory i already know and zero info i actually need to progress.

Discovered crates are more RNG that FTL, from getting a T2 sniper to getting six bullets, so, whatever.

*Everything* is locked and rigged to explode.

Snipers can't hit anything with enemies up close, their range is also limited enough - and the mob's speed fast enough - that a sniper gets one or at most two shots per engagement.

Ditto for ARs.

AG Center, having the pods burst everywere means i'm savingand reloading at every step (8 hp per party member per explosion; and i've spent everything i had on .38 ammo and medpacks). Walking is slow, and backtracking is everywhere.
Get new NPC; with 7 charisma and 3 leadership she doesn't follow a single order, rushes in between 4 mobs, misses a shot which hits a pod which hits another pod. NPC is dead.

Bunnies. I wipe again, several times. I exploit the shotgun from the "harry-like" guy.

More bunnies, i wipe again.

Pod people, i wipe again. these thinsg hit for 15 and explode on death; they also move fast enough to get to you in 1 round.

WEAPON-FUCKING-JAMS.

Whoever thought that 8% per bullet was ok doesn't math;
Also, in one round, i fail a 79% shot, a 72% shot, i get 2 jams, two friendly fire in a row and one 54% shot failed... and this is just about every engagement.

Backtrack and sell, get more ammo and packs, backtrack and sell again, get more ammo and packs.

Find out random encounters scale with you;

"Accidentally" walk into Highpool; meet Gila Monsters, wipe. Some "mobs respawn on save" bugs. Here mobs have anough AP to rush you from out of LOS, and attack you twice for 20~35. And *never* miss. I am now reduced to save scumming to get anything decent from crates.

Headed to the prison now;

By *severely* cheating the RNG i barely managed to survive; i find that in the Citadel i have barely enough cash for a new load of .38 bullets and nothing else. Armor is useless, with lev.3 giving me no noticeable protection.

Fuck it. I make new characters, all 10 intelligence and 8 "the one that gives you AP" and zero every other attribute since they dont count for squat. Pumping strenght for hp. have one dude at 3 leadership for 8% aim, rest of team crouching always and using pistols since its the only weapon you can rely on. Difficulty: easy.

I'm looking forward to another 12 hours of non stop scumming, saving, reloading, backtracking, text with zero information content.

Thats the gameplay; i will avoid mentioning the clunky UI, the horribad camera rotation, the glitchy "camera follows party" command, the "reloading out of combat does not reload all weapons", cannot select objects through walls+camera angles, annoying looping sounds, ugly character models, bad lighting, idk what more.

 

[datalink7]

Well I didn't have nearly the trouble you did and I have no experience with WL1 (or fallout, which I somehow missed).

I don't remember the toad being difficult at all. I barely even remember encountering it.

Just have the sniper at the very back of your group. My sniper never gets into close combat, so he's always shooting. Enemies tend to go after whomever is closest if they are hand to hand, so I have my bruiser with best armor at the front. Works well.

As for the rest, just move a couple spaces away and fire. Everyone has enough AP to do this and it takes away the penalty to hit.

At the AG center, there is a delay on the exploding pods. Essentially, just run past them, 3 seconds later they explode with no damage to your party. No ammo needed.

Pop people can be difficult, but they are super slow and they explode doing damage to enemies as well. Get them low HP but then time the death shot so it minimizes the damage they do to you.

Jams are annoying but with weaponcrafting you can get mags which lower the jam chance.

There are multiple vendors at different locations so you don't need to go back to the citadel to sell everything.

Rabbits were a bit difficult. I think I threw some grenades when they grouped up. Their lunge attack is nasty but they weren't too hard.

 

[DigDog]

Well I didn't have nearly the trouble you did and I have no experience with WL1 (or fallout, which I somehow missed).

I don't remember the toad being difficult at all. I barely even remember encountering it.

...

Just have the sniper at the very back of your group. My sniper never gets into close combat, so he's always shooting. Enemies tend to go after whomever is closest if they are hand to hand, so I have my bruiser with best armor at the front. Works well.

This doesn't work. Mobs will randomly move around and tanking is impossible. (dude, i have played these games for 30 years, you'd think i would try tanking)

As for the rest, just move a couple spaces away and fire. Everyone has enough AP to do this and it takes away the penalty to hit.

I have an average of 7 AP per character. this gives me 5 attacks over 2 rounds. considering my hit percentages (for whatever those numbers are worth) we are talking 10 damage per round average, without counting jams and reloads. moving 2 AP would mean 4 attacks and no 10% bonus.

At the AG center, there is a delay on the exploding pods. Essentially, just run past them, 3 seconds later they explode with no damage to your party. No ammo needed.

Its not about the ammo, its about the placement of the pods, needing to go from group to single every time (unless you want to use 4 bullets per pod) and back again, and having to spam Z to highlight them (since many are obscured by walls or the camera angles.

Pop people can be difficult, but they are super slow and they explode doing damage to enemies as well. Get them low HP but then time the death shot so it minimizes the damage they do to you.

I try to move away when they explode, and generally i'm successful. The same goes for taking a single step, spamming perception, saving and repeating.
It's just a design choice which, coupled with the controls system, makes for a very slow gameplay.

Jams are annoying but with weaponcrafting you can get mags which lower the jam chance.

I have WC at 3 now and i haven't seen anything like that - but i will look into it.

There are multiple vendors at different locations so you don't need to go back to the citadel to sell everything.

ermm.. not.
there is the guy outside the citadel and the guy in the weelchair, who doesn't really have anything except about 50 .38 ammo.
I'm sure there's plenty later on, but not in the first 6~10 hours.

Rabbits were a bit difficult. I think I threw some grenades when they grouped up. Their lunge attack is nasty but they weren't too hard.

Rabbits hit harder and they come in groups of 6 when you are already down on hp and ammo; they can still be killed, but damn, they are hard.

answers in bold.

the game is very hard. it's hard but in a way which doesn't reward tactical play - it just rewards slow play. It's a matter of clicking and unclicking and turning the camera (with the Q/E keys, forget the middle mouse button) and saving and reloading, and even good tactics are foiled by the excessive RNG randomness.

And mobs are though, *really* though, move way too fast and far, hit way more often then i do, never jam, never run out of ammo.

What gets me the most is that dues to all these factors, there is really little strategy aside from "crouch, shoot". Maybe "ambush".
I get that i have to save my good ammo for the big guys, and i do, but when i start to run out of *everything* even when trying to be conservative, i get upset.
It's like every mob encounter is just taxing you in so much ammo, health and medpacks, never giving you a chance to set up and conquer the enemy with minimal losses due to skillful character placement, wise weapon use, skill use or other gameplay tactic. (the closes i ever go to that was when a bunch of gila mobs couldn't path correctly so i took them down by sniper alone)

I wanted to go through the game without spoilers, but damn, it can't be done.

Now i have minmaxed a party without even bothering to get them a nice portrait, lowered the difficulty, and will just zip through the game with my 14AP/round toons, as most attributes are completely useless.

Luck does nothing except that 1% more critical percentage. why should i boost my chance to *occasionally* get 1 extra AP when i can always have 3 extra AP swapping stats.
Barter takes 6 skill points to give you THREE PERCENT better prices. Charisma does not boost ANY speech skill. speed does NOTHING since you will be crouched and immobile for 99% of your fights. Awareness can't even begin to compete with intelligence, as its apparent you want to max all yoru weapon skill asap. Mobs have way better initiative than players and melee is - as far as now - completely useless, with 5AP per swing at 45% hit rate is even worse than the basic pistol.

I could go on.

I might go on and give the medium difficulty another try. Maybe spend some time in the desert to grind (aah yes, the magic word - grind!) some money.

And i'm pretty sure that by the end of this game, you are rolling in power armor and ion cannons, but for now, i'm not really seeing the light of day.
(generally, i complain that games are too easy .. go figure)

 

[DigDog]

tldr version:
1) mobs move too fast
2) weapons jam too often

 

[datalink7]

It's not like I'm further than you. I've only done the Ag Center, Hightower, and then cleared the three infected places from the Ag Center (minor side mission), and then went back to the citidel.

I'm playing on the medium difficulty.

Did you pick up the higher level character right in the beginning? She helps out a lot until the rest of your characters catch up to her in level. Think she starts with 6 in AR's so she does a lot of damage and hits quite frequently.

But I'm seriously not running into the problems you are. I still don't get what's hard about the pods. I don't need to deselect the party at all. Just run the whole group by them and I don't get hit.

Heck, I didn't even know that Z highlighted things. So, that should make it even easier now

I do agree that mobs move too fast, but my sniper still sits at the back and tends not to get hit.

There are a number of things that annoy me about the game, but the difficulty isn't one of them. Seems about right to me.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

And then you'll beat Ag Center, gear up, and everything gets crazy easy.

 

[datalink7]

And then you'll beat Ag Center, gear up, and everything gets crazy easy.

Really? I beat the ag center, got some cool gear, and then ran into some robots at a railroad track that anihiliated me. 3 of them, 350 hit points each, and they jump across next to you and hit for like 100 damage.

 

[hardhat]

Mobs moving from outside of sight of the party (the mob's sight) to very close range is a known bug that the devs said they are addressing in the next patch. Weapon jams can be overcome with 2 points in weaponsmithing. I agree that too many containers are locked/trapped and the loot is too random.

There are a few considerations that most people don't take into account when they just get the game, that are very relevant to doing well at high difficulty.
1) You get bonus AP of (Strength + Speed + Intelligence)/4. Therefore, you want those totals to be 4/8/12/16. 4 Int really is enough for at least two of your rangers. 8 Int is inefficient because you can get a bonus skill per level for only 2 more.
2) AP total and combat initiative are very important. ARs cost 4 or 5 per shot, with an optional burst for 4/5/6/7. Most of the time you want 10 AP for that weapon so you can either fire twice or move and burst once. There are different totals for each weapon type that you will learn as you play, and you really should plan your build around the type of weapon you will be using. You said that you had average 7 AP, which is quite low. Combat initiative is also pretty important because there aren't rounds where everyone goes once. People go according to how fast their combat initiative allows.
3) Unfortunately, the start of the game is pretty tough for some people. After you get the first mission out of the way you get some massive weapon upgrades available in the citadel.
4) Trying to design your initial four rangers to do everything from the start of the game doesn't work that well. You can pick up followers to shore up some of your weaknesses, so don't worry about planning to do everything well from the start. Just worry about what will allow you to survive and be more efficient until you get some help. I'm not saying that you don't need lockpick/safecrack/demolitions/medic/surgeon, but do you really need to be putting points into toaster repair at the start? You can go back to re do most of the content if you missed it until you get out of AZ.

 

[Mopetar]

I do agree that mobs move too fast, but my sniper still sits at the back and tends not to get hit.

Only certain enemies are like this. The bunnies can move ridiculous distances and the mutant flies can move pretty far as well, but the pod people are rather slow. Most human enemies can't move all that far, so once you get a few good assault rifles and a long-range sniper weapon and mod them so you can hit targets from 30 meters out, you'll typically get two rounds off at long distance before they can get close.

Also using cover helps a lot early on when your characters don't have very good skill levels in their weapons yet. The extra evasion and hit chance helps a lot.

 

[Worthington]

Loving the game still, but I do think it's a shame that atrributes in no way affect skills. A ranger with an awareness of 2 and a perception of 6 is just as perceptive as a range with an awareness of 10 and a perception of 6, or for another example the brute force skill, two rangers with 3 points in brute force have to same chances no matter if one has a STR of 10 and the other a STR 1.

 

[soulcougher73]

I started all my rangers off with the same exact attributes and so far its been smooth sailing really. Not sure if its ideal or the best but i have mine at;

Coordination: 4
Luck: 1
Awareness: 3
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Intelligence: 8
Charisma:2

I believe that is what i have. Im at work and going off memory. But all my guys started with 10AP.

 

[Worthington]

all that lowered Charisma is going to hurt you when it comes to certain followers. They do a Charisma check against your party and if the total sum is too low you won't be able to recruit them.
Just FYI