Watch Matrix again, not as good, and HUGE plot hole

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louis redfoot

Senior member
Feb 2, 2017
289
14
41
You got to be kidding me. Taking this way too literally. The battery thing is brilliant in how human existence has been reduced to a horror.

saw that as a metaphor of a communist world where people were just zombies working for their slave masters (work being the physical/actual source of energy). and the zombie imagery itself being a metaphor for being clueless of the actual state of things (x-files etc).

so while the screenplay/plot could have been better, the actual meat of the story was pretty damn prophetic... at least the way i read it
 
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BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,920
3,203
146
Matrix is an excellent sci-fi movie. It was especially amazing when it came out in 1999. Matrix 2 and 3 are amazingly bad though. Some movies should not have sequels. I think it would be remembered as an all-time great if they hadn't made the sequels.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Matrix is an excellent sci-fi movie. It was especially amazing when it came out in 1999. Matrix 2 and 3 are amazingly bad though. Some movies should not have sequels. I think it would be remembered as an all-time great if they hadn't made the sequels.

100% agree. First one was awesome, other two were meh.

It's always hard to keep the coolness going on with sequels though. Terminator 2 is one of the few that was even better than the original.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
100% agree. First one was awesome, other two were meh.

It's always hard to keep the coolness going on with sequels though. Terminator 2 is one of the few that was even better than the original.

Aliens also kept up in the quality department when compared to the original Alien. (Although they weren't exactly the same genre, sci-fi horror vs sci-fi horror action).

Both T2 and Aliens had James Cameron as director so maybe it's not surprising.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,046
10,224
136
Matrix 2 and 3 are in the top 3 or 5 of worst movies ever made. It makes it easy to forgot that Matrix 1 was fairly decent.

While I won't spend my time defending Matrix 2 or 3, I think for you to make a statement like this, you ought to actually watch say the IMDB bottom 50 films

Even saying, "in the top 3 or 5 worst high-budget blockbusters" still seems a bit implausible; there have been so many bad films released: the Star Wars prequel movies, or 'Wild Wild West', just off the top of my head.

Of course, a film bombing at the box office isn't necessarily a sign of a film being utter bollocks, but 'Battlefield Earth' and 'Catwoman' are on this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Aliens also kept up in the quality department when compared to the original Alien. (Although they weren't exactly the same genre, sci-fi horror vs sci-fi horror action).

Both T2 and Aliens had James Cameron as director so maybe it's not surprising.

Yes, although Prometheus was kinda dumb. Graphics were great but the story was meh.
 

Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
255
51
91
The main plot hole for the Matrix is the notion that humans generate energy, and would be useful to to plug us in to a power station of some kind.

People do not generate power, we consume it. There is no point in plugging us into anything to generate power. If you accept that the basic premise of the movie is wrong, and enjoy it for a sci fi style kung-fu movie it is ok.
 
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master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,430
291
121
why couldn't the machines wrap their heads around nuclear energy??

maybe they had hippie machines who didn't want to fuck up a planet with no sky.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,552
12,865
136
I would have gone with the biggest plot hole being feeding the dead to the living. After enough times no calories would be left to power your copper tops thanks to entropy. So food would have to be produced somewhere.
I don't think it specified that this is the only thing they ever fed them? Just that it happens.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Yes, although Prometheus was kinda dumb. Graphics were great but the story was meh.

Well Alien and Prometheus were both directed by Ridley Scott. I've never seen a movie of his that hasn't looked good.

Whether the movie is good depends on his script. If he gets a good one like Alien, Gladiator, or The Martian they are awesome. When he gets a script from someone lime Damon Lindelof you get Prometheus.

Let's hope Alien Covenant has a good script writer.


The Wachowskis are kind of like that. I don't think I've seen a movie of theirs that hasn't been striking. Whether it's good or not depends on the script.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
136
Matrix is an excellent sci-fi movie. It was especially amazing when it came out in 1999. Matrix 2 and 3 are amazingly bad though. Some movies should not have sequels. I think it would be remembered as an all-time great if they hadn't made the sequels.

This is 100% how i feel about the Matrix. As a stand alone movie probably best sci-fi ever. As a triology...meh.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
While I won't spend my time defending Matrix 2 or 3, I think for you to make a statement like this, you ought to actually watch say the IMDB bottom 50 films

Even saying, "in the top 3 or 5 worst high-budget blockbusters" still seems a bit implausible; there have been so many bad films released: the Star Wars prequel movies, or 'Wild Wild West', just off the top of my head.

Of course, a film bombing at the box office isn't necessarily a sign of a film being utter bollocks, but 'Battlefield Earth' and 'Catwoman' are on this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs

WWW was awful, but decent for what it was. I mean, it was an intentionally stupid and obnoxious film which, after listening to Kevin Smith's glorious story about writing the spec screenplay for the the Superman flick that never happened, really makes you appreciate WWW more, strangely enough.

Matrix 2 wasn't meant to be dumb. It was supposed to take itself seriously, but in the end, it is probably the most incompetent piece of rubbish ever put to celluloid, from the top down. Every single frame was nonsense garbage.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
why couldn't the machines wrap their heads around nuclear energy??

maybe they had hippie machines who didn't want to fuck up a planet with no sky.

As I said earlier Morpheus stated the machines had a form of fusion which is nuclear.

I don't think it specified that this is the only thing they ever fed them? Just that it happens.

Doesn't matter. To make food you have to take energy from somewhere.

The machines energy production process would look like this

Energy from somewhere > Food > Human Heat / Bio-Eelectricity > Energy for the machines.

Thermodynamics basically states at every transformation of energy you lose some. So it is hugely inefficient compared to

Energy from somewhere > Energy for the Machines.
 

Gardener

Senior member
Nov 22, 1999
760
540
136
The main plot hole for the Matrix is the notion that humans generate energy, and would be useful to to plug us in to a power station of some kind.

People do not generate power, we consume it. There is no point in plugging us into anything to generate power. If you accept that the basic premise of the movie is wrong, and enjoy it for a sci fi style kung-fu movie it is ok.

Reminds me of the math joke from SNL's the Change Bank...we lose money on every transaction, but we make it up in volume. It is a ridiculous plot hole in an exceptional movie.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
WWW was awful, but decent for what it was. I mean, it was an intentionally stupid and obnoxious film which, after listening to Kevin Smith's glorious story about writing the spec screenplay for the the Superman flick that never happened, really makes you appreciate WWW more, strangely enough.

Matrix 2 wasn't meant to be dumb. It was supposed to take itself seriously, but in the end, it is probably the most incompetent piece of rubbish ever put to celluloid, from the top down. Every single frame was nonsense garbage.

Have you ever seen this spoof?

It was pretty amusing back in the day.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,552
12,865
136
WWW was awful, but decent for what it was. I mean, it was an intentionally stupid and obnoxious film which, after listening to Kevin Smith's glorious story about writing the spec screenplay for the the Superman flick that never happened, really makes you appreciate WWW more, strangely enough.

Matrix 2 wasn't meant to be dumb. It was supposed to take itself seriously, but in the end, it is probably the most incompetent piece of rubbish ever put to celluloid, from the top down. Every single frame was nonsense garbage.
Oh, bollocks, there are a ton of worse movies.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,552
12,865
136
Doesn't matter. To make food you have to take energy from somewhere.

The machines energy production process would look like this

Energy from somewhere > Food > Human Heat / Bio-Eelectricity > Energy for the machines.

Thermodynamics basically states at every transformation of energy you lose some. So it is hugely inefficient compared to

Energy from somewhere > Energy for the Machines.
I mean, it does matter in that them feeding the dead to the living isn't the biggest plot hole. Not refuting the rest, just that specific statement.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
I enjoyed the Matrix sequels. The architect was a very interesting character. Best thing about the sequels was how it depicted the necessity of order.

Don't get why people hate them so much to be honest. They were solid IMO.

What is baffling is how so many people act like Revenge of the Sith was anywhere near good. It is like they are too dumb to know better.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,552
12,865
136
I enjoyed the Matrix sequels. The architect was a very interesting character. Best thing about the sequels was how it depicted the necessity of order.

Don't get why people hate them so much to be honest. They were solid IMO.

What is baffling is how so many people act like Revenge of the Sith was anywhere near good. It is like they are too dumb to know better.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Knowing the current generation, they're going to make some crap about how Neo defeats racism by sucking machines out of people. It will be less philosophical, more political.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
Prepare your buttholes:

Time to reenter the Matrix: A remake of the seminal sci-fi film could be coming soon, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

Though Warner Bros. reportedly hasn’t decided what form the 1999 action movie will take this time around, THR claims a reboot is in “early stages of developing” at the studio. A source told the trade that Michael B. Jordan is being eyed for the leading role, originally played by Keanu Reeves.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
Supposedly that was the Wachowski's original plan but the producers thought it would be too hard for the average movie goer to understand.




2 and 3 May have been something of a let down, but I still think the Merovingian fight scene was one of the best Hollywood movie fights choreographed ever.


He fights multiple baddies at the same time and even when they are coming at him serially it's mostly because he's manipulated the fight to have a few seconds take a guy one on one.

Contrast that with contemporary yet laughably bad fight choreography in Blade II


20 guys show up and wait their turn to be dispatched by Blade, one by one, who stands in a big circle and doesn't move much.
If he can stop bullets couldn't he also stop their punches?
Why does he grab weapons to slap them with?! He could just stab them.. He had multiple opportunities.
That thing was just so long it got boring.

Also; he make weapons fly into his hands, why not into the bad guys? Or just make them fly out the window..? Smh
 
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Elganja

Platinum Member
May 21, 2007
2,143
24
81
I enjoyed the Matrix sequels. The architect was a very interesting character. Best thing about the sequels was how it depicted the necessity of order.

Don't get why people hate them so much to be honest. They were solid IMO.

What is baffling is how so many people act like Revenge of the Sith was anywhere near good. It is like they are too dumb to know better.

i don't think they are that bad, if you look at them independently... but the problem is, the first one was SOO good, that it was impossible for the sequels to match it; therefore people hated the sequels with a passion
 
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