water cooling question

[Paintballfreak66]

Ok, I'm putting together a water cooling system and I have a quick question about bleeding/filling. If I have a reservoir such as this and it's the highest point in the cycle, will it act as a bleed point for the air? It would seem that it would as air bubbles rise to the surface when under water.

-ALSO-
What is the importance of a bleeding tube besides emptying the system for travel or removal? Is there any other need for it at all and is it mandatory? Couldn't I just remove the system and hold the reservoir over a bucket with everything else above it to empty the system if I had to? Convenience is not my first priority here, rather I want to minimize tubing and accessories that I need in the case. I'm not planning to change anything once I get the system set up and leak free.

Also if you guys know of any wc guides with good pictures that would be great. Thanks for the help.

PB

 

[Greenman]

Yes, the air will blead out through the res as long as it's the high point in the system. I'm not sure what you mean by a bleading tube, if you mean a drain tube, no, you don't need one.
I don't know of any guides with pics, but it's pretty easy to do, and pretty easy to screw up, so take your time and check everything 3 times.

 

[thisbarb]

I think he means t-line. The point of a t-line is almost the same as a reservoir except it doesn't store any water. It isn't mandatory, it's just an option to consider between reservoirs or t-lines (depending on how much space you have, or are willing to use). A t-line is easier to fill IMO because all you have to do is open the cap and put water in, while a reservoir, depending on which you use, you have to take it out of the bay, and put in the water.

 

[Paintballfreak66]

Well take a look at this pic from the danger den site. Linky

Now, that y-split to the back bottom of the case is what I would assume is a drain line. Is there any good reason to have that or is it just an unnecessary part? Notice this setup also has a t-line from the reservoir (which is at the highest point in the system). What I plan on doing is using the reservoir I linked to in my first post, putting it in the top two bays of my thermaltake Xaser and that way it will act as a bleeding t-line and a fill line and I shouldn't actually have to mess with it much. And I'll rig the reservoir so I can easily slide it out enough to add more liquid as needed. Since my reservoir has an in and out barb I don't need a t-line in my system correct? Just make sure the reservoir is the highest point and all the air will work it's way out. Thanks for the help guys, I'm new to this.


PB

 

[Paintballfreak66]

Here I drew up a quick diagram in m$ paint so I can see my plan. Let me know any suggestions about it or if you see something that's wrong. Thanks.

PB

 

[thisbarb]

That looks optimal to say the least.

 

[Paintballfreak66]

Originally posted by: thisbarb
That looks optimal to say the least.

good news, thanks

PB

 

[thisbarb]

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66
Well take a look at this pic from the danger den site. Linky

Now, that y-split to the back bottom of the case is what I would assume is a drain line. Is there any good reason to have that or is it just an unnecessary part? Notice this setup also has a t-line from the reservoir (which is at the highest point in the system). What I plan on doing is using the reservoir I linked to in my first post, putting it in the top two bays of my thermaltake Xaser and that way it will act as a bleeding t-line and a fill line and I shouldn't actually have to mess with it much. And I'll rig the reservoir so I can easily slide it out enough to add more liquid as needed. Since my reservoir has an in and out barb I don't need a t-line in my system correct? Just make sure the reservoir is the highest point and all the air will work it's way out. Thanks for the help guys, I'm new to this.


PB

The T-line functions just like the reservoir, you can let the water bleed by just placing the computer case in a direction in which the t-line will be at the highest part and air will naturally travel upwards (lighter than water). Both the T-Line and the Reservoir are, functionally, the exact same thing. The only difference between the two is: cost, space, and usability. The reservoir is much easier to store large amounts of water (which may theoretically lower temperatures since you have more water in the loop). It is also harder to maintain and acrylic (if you decide to get one the danger den reservoirs), tends to react with UV light and degenerate over time. So that might be something to watch out for (if you use UV CCFLs in your case or your side window is facing the window in your room: both apply.)

 

[Paintballfreak66]

So say I had a dual cathode light system in my case in order to make all my uv stuff look cool, that would slowly cause damage to the reservoir? Are we talking months or 10 years or what? I doubt I'll have this particular computer system for more than 2 years.

PB

 

[thisbarb]

Many months would do the trick, The best way to combat it is to use a bay reservoir so that only minimal surface area reacts to the UV, or you can do a custom job and encase the res in metal (preferably aluminum as it's easier to work with).

 

[thisbarb]

If you want my honest opinion (and not fact, much of what I will be saying is biased):

Reservoirs are not worth the cost. They add more risk to the system as there is a pool of water housed that is not technically in the loop. Unforseeable consequences can occur such as the acrylic gets weak and starts to leak or bad handling might crack the acrylic altogether. The good thing is, it is easier to maintain and you aren't required to refill the loop as often as if you had a T-Line. But, with a water cooling, periodic maintenance is necessary anyway, so that negates the previous statement. A T-line is much more sensible in the fact that it is easier to refill, easier to bleed, and easier to empty (all of this is only considered if you pick a bay res, a fillport res does pretty much the same thing as the T-line fillport, only difference is ACRYLIC SUCKS)

 

[Paintballfreak66]

That's exactly what I was thinking, to buy some cheap aluminum sheet metal and enclose the rear and bottom of the res in a metal box to block out the UV light. Sounds good, thanks for the help man.

PB

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: thisbarb

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66
Well take a look at this pic from the danger den site. Linky

Now, that y-split to the back bottom of the case is what I would assume is a drain line. Is there any good reason to have that or is it just an unnecessary part? Notice this setup also has a t-line from the reservoir (which is at the highest point in the system). What I plan on doing is using the reservoir I linked to in my first post, putting it in the top two bays of my thermaltake Xaser and that way it will act as a bleeding t-line and a fill line and I shouldn't actually have to mess with it much. And I'll rig the reservoir so I can easily slide it out enough to add more liquid as needed. Since my reservoir has an in and out barb I don't need a t-line in my system correct? Just make sure the reservoir is the highest point and all the air will work it's way out. Thanks for the help guys, I'm new to this.


PB

The T-line functions just like the reservoir, you can let the water bleed by just placing the computer case in a direction in which the t-line will be at the highest part and air will naturally travel upwards (lighter than water). Both the T-Line and the Reservoir are, functionally, the exact same thing. The only difference between the two is: cost, space, and usability. The reservoir is much easier to store large amounts of water (which may theoretically lower temperatures since you have more water in the loop). It is also harder to maintain and acrylic (if you decide to get one the danger den reservoirs), tends to react with UV light and degenerate over time. So that might be something to watch out for (if you use UV CCFLs in your case or your side window is facing the window in your room: both apply.)

My DD res has been used in two distilled/Hydrx loops so far, that translates into about 18-months service. I also use 2-sets of CCFL's. There aren't any cracks or seam degeneration present in the unit. Cost: This should never come up in a disscusion with enthusiats, so I won't bother addressing it. Space: This too represents a waste of time when it comes to this subject matter. There are a broad range of case sizes available. Usability: I'm at a loss to understand why this word is in any way applicable. You install a res, it does it's job, case closed.

They add more risk to the system as there is a pool of water housed that is not technically in the loop. Unforseeable consequences can occur such as the acrylic gets weak and starts to leak or bad handling might crack the acrylic altogether. The good thing is, it is easier to maintain and you aren't required to refill the loop as often as if you had a T-Line. But, with a water cooling, periodic maintenance is necessary anyway, so that negates the previous statement. A T-line is much more sensible in the fact that it is easier to refill, easier to bleed, and easier to empty (all of this is only considered if you pick a bay res, a fillport res does pretty much the same thing as the T-line fillport, only difference is ACRYLIC SUCKS)

Yup, overly biased, as usual.

There is nothing about a T that makes it "easier to refill, easier to bleed, and easier to empty", especially when the people who can't except that there is another option can't even agree on where a T should be placed. What you've done here is attribute every positive aspect of a res to a T, and offered it as fact. That's wrong and obviously NOT something anyone should take seriously. I'd urge ANYONE who hasn't gotten into their first loop to seek out balanced, non-biased data on both approaches and make your choice based on that. And once you've done this, try not to be an evangelist for any particular approach. It's annoying and does a disservice to those you might offer "advice" to.

 

[Paintballfreak66]

Originally posted by: HardWarriorYup, overly biased, as usual.

There is nothing about a T that makes it "easier to refill, easier to bleed, and easier to empty", especially when the people who can't except that there is another option can't even agree on where a T should be placed. What you've done here is attribute every positive aspect of a res to a T, and offered it as fact. That's wrong and obviously NOT something anyone should take seriously. I'd urge ANYONE who hasn't gotten into their first loop to seek out balanced, non-biased data on both approaches and make your choice based on that. And once you've done this, try not to be an evangelist for any particular approach. It's annoying and does a disservice to those you might offer "advice" to.

So in relevance to my specific thread you think what I plan to do with the reservoir is fine? Perhaps it is exactly how reservoirs are intented to work in the first place?

PB

 

[thisbarb]

I already pointed out that the information was biased. Any real person would take it with a grain of salt. The fact of the matter is that UV light of ANY kind does slowly destroy acrylic, even normal light. Even if you can't see the cracks or seams, it does not mean your acrylic res has been weathered by constant bombardment of UV light. And an acrylic res adds unnecessary risk when putting together a loop. Not only is it prone to leak more, but you really have no control over whether it leaks or not except by sealing with acrylic cement and the like. Using a T-line is very simple, even the biggest bonehead could use it and maintain it unlike a res.

BTW, ever hear of something called water cooling kits? Yes, they're enthusiast products but at a far lower cost than say... Swiftech or DD setups. You don't need money to be an enthusiast. There are many people who want good products but at a low cost. Being an enthusiast doesn't automatically necessitate the overusage of money for products that just aren't that good. And frankly, reservoirs just AREN'T that good.

BTW, a T-line is easier to fill, bleed, and empty. Drill a hole into the case, attach appropriate T-line tubing, use a fillport to close it. When you want to add water, open the fillport up, add some water. When you want to bleed it, lay it on its side, so the T-line is at its highest point. When you want to empty it, tilt the case so the T-Line is at its lowest point.

Now a reservoir without a T-line is much more time consuming but it does have its good points (if you don't plan to move your computer around a lot). I've already stated what those were above.

Maybe you're letting that 3078 posts you have get the better of you, but please don't assume everything I say is biased. The information I have stated is, for the most part, true. I have pointed out that some of the information was biased. I am just trying to get my point across.

The simple conclusion is that most people who jump into WCing start with a reservoir and find its too much of a hassle so they switch to a T-line.


P.S. You're just as opinionated/biased as me so don't point your finger at me, lest you want to be a hypocrite.


Sorry for hogging your thread, Paintball. In any case, a reservoir or T-line are fine choices. You really can't go wrong, but obviously, you know that I strongly prefer T-lines over reservoirs ^_^.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66

Originally posted by: HardWarriorYup, overly biased, as usual.

There is nothing about a T that makes it "easier to refill, easier to bleed, and easier to empty", especially when the people who can't except that there is another option can't even agree on where a T should be placed. What you've done here is attribute every positive aspect of a res to a T, and offered it as fact. That's wrong and obviously NOT something anyone should take seriously. I'd urge ANYONE who hasn't gotten into their first loop to seek out balanced, non-biased data on both approaches and make your choice based on that. And once you've done this, try not to be an evangelist for any particular approach. It's annoying and does a disservice to those you might offer "advice" to.

So in relevance to my specific thread you think what I plan to do with the reservoir is fine? Perhaps it is exactly how reservoirs are intented to work in the first place?

PB

Yup, a res bleeds effortlessly, an while it's closed off. It doesn't even have to be at the highest point to perform this function because after the initial burst of large bubbles the foam that remains is suspended in the flow. Moreover, all this happens without having to tilt your case or any of the other gyrations associated with bleeding a T-based loop. Now, having said this, there are some things that a T offers that are better than a res. Like having to use less overall tubing and inherent simplicity. There are pros and cons to both approaches. The trick is being able to make up your mind sans the self-serving propaganda that permeates this subject.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: thisbarb *irrelevant claptrap removed*
P.S. You're just as opinionated/biased as me so don't point your finger at me, lest you want to be a hypocrite.

This difference is that I have a DAMNED good idea what I'm talking about. And no dude, "bias" doesn't fit my approach ONE bit. You've NEVER seen me moping around this place, full of spit, vinegar and dire warnings, trying to talk anyone out of anything they want to do, like you. I advise and recommend. My only bias is for water, and I'm smart enough not to care if someone decides to use air. And next time keep the name-calling to yourself.

Sorry for hogging your thread, Paintball. In any case, a reservoir or T-line are fine choices. You really can't go wrong, but obviously, you know that I strongly prefer T-lines over reservoirs ^_^.

Now how does THIS make sense? One minute a res is the worse thing since Hitler, the next they're just "fine", and you "can't go wrong" using one.

 

[thisbarb]

You win.

Unfortunately, you don't know as much as you think you do. Stop being a cocky prick and get off my back. Next time I bother you enough for you to write me an essay, think, turn away, and go to another thread. Or if that doesn't help, get some professional help. Just a forum.

Next time I see you on my ass, I'll know how much of a damn drama queen you are.

BTW, learn to read before you speak. I never said reservoirs were the crappiest thing to hit the market since the chia pet, I just said a T-Line had more advantages than reservoirs did. Thank you, take English 101 again.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: thisbarb
BLAH-BLAH-BLAH

Cry baby, cry... :laugh:

 

[Paintballfreak66]

AHH I'VE BEEN HIJACKED!! CALL THE FEDS!! :roll::roll:

 

[Greenman]

I wouldn't use an acrylic res, there are a few around made out of better material that cost about the same.
Like this one.
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=93316

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Greenman
I wouldn't use an acrylic res, there are a few around made out of better material that cost about the same.
Like this one.
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=93316

Nope, I have one of these in the back seat of my car that I wasn't able to seal because its threading expanded and deformed when I tried to use silicon tape on the barbs. There's a reason why these dropped almost 50% in price.

 

[Greenman]

Sorry to hear yours leaked, I still think it makes a very good res. In general, the material is used a lot for low pressure storage. Tank sizes rang from a few ounces to several hundred gallons, and if you have a cold water outlet on your fridge, it's prolly a polyethylene tank, I know mine is. You can also find them in many cars, windshild washer fluid storage tanks. What they don't have is bling, they don't glow in cool colors under uv light.

 

[HardWarrior]

I never installed it. There's something about not feeling the barbs "lock" that made me not want to take a chance. I think injection molding is a GREAT idea though. I hope someone decides to refine the idea. Yours is working okay?

 

[Greenman]

I use a copper res, it's hard piped on to my rad and pokes out the back of the case with a fill cap on it. But I've crossed paths with a lot of polyethylene tanks and had to mod a couple to suit my needs. Threaded fittings are it's weak point, the best method to connect to them is with a threaded brass tube with a nut and washer on each side, so you clamp the polyethylene between metal parts. Molded fittings you just have to be carefull with. But once you get connected to them the darn things will take a beating that would destory a steel tank.
A couple weeks back I picked up an opty 146 thats running on air because I didn't have the right water block. Right now it's at 2.7Ghz and 29C with the stock HSF, and I'm starting to think I might not bother with water, how much better could it be? So I might have to build another rig just so I can use all the nice parts I have laying around.