Water vs. Air

[lotus503]

So I just built a new rig with a very good Air setup, CPU getting 29c idle temps with 38c load. A64 3500+ Oced to 2640.

Cooling XP120 120mm Thermaltake fan
Stock cooling on bfg 6800gt run around 51c idle 75c full load.

With all of that said water cooling is starting to intrigue me a bit, because all fans on high sound like I have a blow dryer attached to my head.

If I went with a "no expense spared" water setup what temps could I expect in comparison to the above, and with the cost of such a setup would some form of Vapochill be a better bet?

Thoughts?

 

[akira34]

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
So I just built a new rig with a very good Air setup, CPU getting 29c idle temps with 38c load. A64 3500+ Oced to 2640.

Cooling XP120 120mm Thermaltake fan
Stock cooling on bfg 6800gt run around 51c idle 75c full load.

With all of that said water cooling is starting to intrigue me a bit, because all fans on high sound like I have a blow dryer attached to my head.

If I went with a "no expense spared" water setup what temps could I expect in comparison to the above, and with the cost of such a setup would some form of Vapochill be a better bet?

Thoughts?

The XP-120 is made by ThermalRIGHT, not Thermaltake...

Try an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 on your video card. It will reduce the ilde/load temps on it. I have one on mine and at idle it ranges from about 40-46C. At load, I've yet to see it go over 60C (if that high).

I'm using two Panaflo M1 fans in the rear of the case and on the XP-120 (set to suck off the XP-120) to get a little bit higher temps, but a LOT less noise. I've got those two fans spinning at 50% or less via hardware controllers. IF I cranked them up, it would cool better, but be louder.

 

[lotus503]

Originally posted by: akira34

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
So I just built a new rig with a very good Air setup, CPU getting 29c idle temps with 38c load. A64 3500+ Oced to 2640.

Cooling XP120 120mm Thermaltake fan
Stock cooling on bfg 6800gt run around 51c idle 75c full load.

With all of that said water cooling is starting to intrigue me a bit, because all fans on high sound like I have a blow dryer attached to my head.

If I went with a "no expense spared" water setup what temps could I expect in comparison to the above, and with the cost of such a setup would some form of Vapochill be a better bet?

Thoughts?

The XP-120 is made by ThermalRIGHT, not Thermaltake...
Yup your right but the 120mm fan I have is made by Thermaltake

Try an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 on your video card. It will reduce the ilde/load temps on it. I have one on mine and at idle it ranges from about 40-46C. At load, I've yet to see it go over 60C (if that high).

I'm using two Panaflo M1 fans in the rear of the case and on the XP-120 (set to suck off the XP-120) to get a little bit higher temps, but a LOT less noise. I've got those two fans spinning at 50% or less via hardware controllers. IF I cranked them up, it would cool better, but be louder.

I am not disappointed with my Air cooling as much as I am interested to find out what results I could expect from a water cooling setup.

 

[hondAS2ooo170]

i have heard u will get a big drop with h2o cooling.

if i remember correctly.
u can get 20c on a cpu idling
and 40c on load.

im not positive but i have read that somewhere on anandtech
it can b less or more im not sure

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: akira34

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
So I just built a new rig with a very good Air setup, CPU getting 29c idle temps with 38c load. A64 3500+ Oced to 2640.

Cooling XP120 120mm Thermaltake fan
Stock cooling on bfg 6800gt run around 51c idle 75c full load.

With all of that said water cooling is starting to intrigue me a bit, because all fans on high sound like I have a blow dryer attached to my head.

If I went with a "no expense spared" water setup what temps could I expect in comparison to the above, and with the cost of such a setup would some form of Vapochill be a better bet?

Thoughts?

The XP-120 is made by ThermalRIGHT, not Thermaltake...

Try an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 on your video card. It will reduce the ilde/load temps on it. I have one on mine and at idle it ranges from about 40-46C. At load, I've yet to see it go over 60C (if that high).

I'm using two Panaflo M1 fans in the rear of the case and on the XP-120 (set to suck off the XP-120) to get a little bit higher temps, but a LOT less noise. I've got those two fans spinning at 50% or less via hardware controllers. IF I cranked them up, it would cool better, but be louder.

tthe xp120 dont come with a fan, i think he meant the XP120 with a TT fan , not that the xp was made by TT

 

[Gravity]

I find your load temps very high. ARe you sure you have the right amount of thermal paste on hour hsf? I have my machines set to shutdown at 70c.

Water will help but from what I've read, water and air are only a few degrees apart. Therefore, you will spend a lot of $$ on water for very little change in temps.

Having said that, you might tweak your setup to fix what's wrong and look around to see other cooling solutions. Water's a nice hobby but unnecessary in my humble opinion.

 

[lotus503]

Originally posted by: Gravity
I find your load temps very high. ARe you sure you have the right amount of thermal paste on hour hsf? I have my machines set to shutdown at 70c.

Water will help but from what I've read, water and air are only a few degrees apart. Therefore, you will spend a lot of $$ on water for very little change in temps.

Having said that, you might tweak your setup to fix what's wrong and look around to see other cooling solutions. Water's a nice hobby but unnecessary in my humble opinion.

38c load for my cpu is high?

Or is it 70-75c load for my 6800GT?

 

[Miklebud]

Originally posted by: hondAS2ooo170
i have heard u will get a big drop with h2o cooling.

if i remember correctly.
u can get 20c on a cpu idling
and 40c on load.

im not positive but i have read that somewhere on anandtech
it can b less or more im not sure

Actually, with watercooling your load temps are quite a bit lower. And your load temps will get back to idle much quicker.

With water I had 25C idle and 29-30 load and would get back to 25C within seconds.

Watercooling is not cheap, but it does have its convieniences. It quiets down your computer while still giving you the chance to OC your CPU and GPU.

 

[MisterChief]

Water--->Expensive, overrated.
Air--->Works fine, cheap, abundant, safe

 

[Dman877]

Putting together a water setup is fun if you're the modding type but it's really not worth the effort. If you just want a stable system, air is fine.

 

[HeaterCore]

True. With an A64 you won't even get much better overclocks from a watercooling setup; what you will get is a much quieter system with moderately better cooling. If you're the tinkering type, and like to fool around with this stuff, by all means go for it. I installed a DD TDX rig in my system about three months ago and I'm loving it, but I'll be the first to admit that watercooling isn't for most people.

A vapochill...well, that's another beast altogether. Relatively noisy, expensive as hell, and moderately difficult to maintain -- but as opposed to watercooling, you'd be able to overclock an A64 to ridiculous speeds. Worth it to some people, maybe, but far fewer even than watercooling.

-HC-

 

[Idleuser]

The beauty about watercooling is that you can pretty much use it for future setup that will be more heat intensive.

 

[SketchMaster]

If you have the money to blow on water cooling it can be nice.

But what I would do is buy better fans (Thermaltakes are LOUD!) for your CPU and case like panaflo 7-9$ for 92mm. If you have a case that can take 120mm get thoes, they can move lots of air at lower speeds. Then get a good fan controller for 30$. You can turn the fans down when you are just surfing the web and such, and then crank them back up when you have to do something CPU heavy.

Also, make sure your cables are nice and neat. The less mess you have in your case the better airflow, and that will help keep things cool. And pay attention on airflow, it isn't about having 10 fans in a case but getting the fans you do have to work more efficient. There are tons of guides on airflow that will help you set up your case.

If you mostly game then that will be the best, because you won't really hear the fans as much while your getting your frag on.

 

[HardWarrior]

One can't just say "you'll idle at 20c using water." The best you can hope for, even with the best setup, is a few degrees C above ambient. However, that's the beauty of water-cooling. It locks your temps in a range and doesn't allow wild shifts, regardless of the surrounding area. One other MAJOR benefit for water-cooling is that it moves the accumulation of dust away from your CPU\GPU (which gradually causes most HSFs to become less effective over time) to your rad, which is much easier to clean.

OP, water isn't easy or cheap, but it's very effective and elegant. Take some time to learn about the process from dedicated sources.

 

[Blain]

Water cooling will take you down to ambient temp. at best.

BTW, This water cooling system may be able to get your temps below the ambient room temp. :laugh:

 

[Gravity]

Sorry, I thought your cpu temp was 75c.

38c for your cpu under load with air is very, very good. Don't know how much better you can expect with water. Vapochill, however, pwns you.

 

[lotus503]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback,

One thing I like about air is, once it is setup properly all you really need to do is clean out the dust on a regular basis.

What about water rigs and thier maintenence? can anyone that has a setup shed some light on maintenence?

 

[HardWarrior]

Once you get it setup you should replace your coolant once every six months. If you use a specialized coolant you can go 18-months before a flush. I clean my rads every month or two.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
One thing I like about air is, once it is setup properly all you really need to do is clean out the dust on a regular basis.

What about water rigs and thier maintenence? can anyone that has a setup shed some light on maintenence?

Keep light out of the system. That means no cool UV dyes to glow.
Not much to do after that, but the occasional flush & fill.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Idleuser
The beauty about watercooling is that you can pretty much use it for future setup that will be more heat intensive.

I'm not sure what what you mean here, user. Current CPU's can benefit greatly from water-cooling. Also, the next generation of CPU's may be hotter or not. We won't know for a while to come.

 

[Blain]

Power Mac G5 dual 2.5 systems are already water cooled.
Where Apple leads, others will follow. :laugh:

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: S0Lstice
One thing I like about air is, once it is setup properly all you really need to do is clean out the dust on a regular basis.

What about water rigs and thier maintenence? can anyone that has a setup shed some light on maintenence?

Keep light out of the system. That means no cool UV dyes to glow.
Not much to do after that, but the occasional flush & fill.

You can run all the lights you want as long as you mix in some biocide, which is recommended at any rate. In fact, I don't recall seeing a water-cooled rig that didn't have lights. Also, there is no problem at all with adding non-particulate, designed for water-cooling dyes.

 

[lotus503]

What are some of the pitfalls you have found on installing a water setup.

I am not asking for a step by step, I will do my own research. Just trying to understand what I would be signing up for

 

[HardWarrior]

Me? Knowing what's right and wrong. There are lots of approaches and ways of getting things done. Even in dedicated water-cooling forums there's a lot of confusion. For example, you can ask a question and some guy will say "Do it this way, because that's the only way!!! Trust me!!!", and he can be dead wrong. Water-cooling is a hobby in a hobby, most people don't understand or appreciate that. You can install it for a myriad of reasons, including thermal management, or even just because you WANT to. It's all good as long as it's safe.

If you're prone to researching things well, you'll do fine and likely not make any mistakes. To augment that, find people who's advice you can trust and you'll do even better.