Watercooling Setup ...

[Arc 0V]

I read through the sticky on watercooling, but I still don't feel too confident being my first watercooling setup. I have selected 1/2" (I don't really understand the 1/2" 3/8" stuff) but I will change to 3/8" if it will bring a better experience (cooling, installing, etc.). So far this is what I have selected, if you know any other website that sells watercooling parts for low then please post them as frozencpu.com isn't too good on that.

CPU block: D-Tek Fuzion v2
Reservoir: Swiftech MCRES High-Flow Reservoir
Radiator: Black Ice GTX 240
Pump: Swiftech MCP655

With tubing I am not too sure but I would probably go with Tygon because ... >.>, nice reason huh? I chose the D-Tek Fuzion because of the good reviews on it, but I will switch to something else if it doesn't match with the system (i.e. water flow, friction, etc.). It might be overkill at the moment that I am using a 2x120mm radiator but I plan on adding GPU blocks right after I get this going and maybe a NB block. I don't know if there is a big enough difference (they both cost the same) so I would probably just go with the x-flow unless otherwise stated by posts. Suggestions are NEEDED please!! Thanks!

 

[Gillbot]

there are lots of cooling places out there, shop around and look for your best deals.
Jab-tech.com
petrastechshop.com
svc.com
newegg.com
sidewindercomputers.com

just to name a few

 

[Tim]

A 2x120mm rad will not be able to handle CPU, NB, and GPU(s).

To get rid of that much heat, you'll need a dual loop possibly. Now we're talking $$$.

Is passive cooling of the GPU's an option for you, or are you looking to overclock the bananas out of them?

 

[WoodButcher]

http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html
good tubing for first timers, cheap enough to buy too much to allow for mistakes.

http://www.frozencpu.com/produ...ack.html?tl=g30c95s160
A Dual pass rad generally performs better than a x-flow, unless you need the inlet - outlet at different ends for tubing reasons go with the dual pass .
A 240 is not overkill, It won't handle much more than a cpu with real good temps, IMO you can't have too much rad.

 

[Arc 0V]

Originally posted by: theplaidfad
A 2x120mm rad will not be able to handle CPU, NB, and GPU(s).

To get rid of that much heat, you'll need a dual loop possibly. Now we're talking $$$.

Is passive cooling of the GPU's an option for you, or are you looking to overclock the bananas out of them?

Only mild overclocking, but CPU wise I will be OCing as much as possible. Further looking into this watercooling setup, I might not put the GPU(s) on the loop unless I am comfortable with the CPU and (if I put it in the loop) NB temps.

 

[Arc 0V]

Also should I stick with 1/2" or go with 3/8"? The sticky isn't too clear on which is better for what reasons.
I am also not too clear on pumps, can a pump be too much? Like if it pumps out water too fast will it mess up temps? IMO I don't think it will hurt at all only help temps, but I am a noob at watercooling.
Seeing how the 240 is, is it better to install it with the barbs up or down? This being a general question to every radiator.

 

[Gillbot]

IMHO, barbs up to help pass air bubbles. If you go barbs down, you'll neet to give it a tilt every once and a while to help pass trapped air in the system.

As for tubing, go 1/2". The extra flow can't hurt, plus as you add more items to the loop it adds restrictions. The 1/2" helps keep the flow up and minimize restrictions.

 

[WoodButcher]

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/

Read the site. Download the estimator. If you don't have a Microsoft spreadsheet Open Office works and it's free.

 

[Arc 0V]

I read up on fans for the radiator. At first I had in mind 2x 1900RPM Scythe SlipStreams but then I read that they lose a lot of airflow and make MUCH more noise behind a radiator (if I read right). I also read that Yate Loons are actually good and keep most airflow and don't make much more noise. What are some other high CFM fans are out there that I can use with a radiator (with characteristics like the Yate Loons)?

I want high CFM fans because they will be connected to a fan controller anyway and I can set the speeds to whatever I am doing.

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: Arc 0V
I read up on fans for the radiator. At first I had in mind 2x 1900RPM Scythe SlipStreams but then I read that they lose a lot of airflow and make MUCH more noise behind a radiator (if I read right). I also read that Yate Loons are actually good and keep most airflow and don't make much more noise. What are some other high CFM fans are out there that I can use with a radiator (with characteristics like the Yate Loons)?
I want high CFM fans because they will be connected to a fan controller anyway and I can set the speeds to whatever I am doing.

The age old question.... I've got 3 of the slipstreams running now and you read right. Too noisy, 5 or 7 volts they are ok but I want better.

 

[aigomorla]

grab an MCR220 if possible

it is a much better radiator.


if your looking for quiet fans, check out jab-tech.

They have high speed yates, and also the zalman f3's. Those are pretty good fans.

 

[Arc 0V]

Not really looking for quiet, just a high (as close to 100CFM as possible) CFM fan that doesn't make a lot more noise with a radiator attached.

 

[aigomorla]

100CFM and doesnt make a lot of noise,

is asking for a full size compact.

 

[Arc 0V]

lol, I mean like ... for example if I get 2 1900RPM SlipStreams I know I am going to get some noise, but I don't want that noise to go up A LOT because of a radiator. So I am looking for fans that are around 100CFM and don't make A LOT of extra noise when behind a radiator. Hope I worded it better.
I might just settle for 2 D12SH-12 Yates, even though it seems like 40dB is a lot for just 88CFM compared to a SlipStream around 35dB for around 100CFM. I'll probably just keep looking around see what I can find.
I am actually kind of liking the D12SM-12C Yates ...
Zepper's post on another of Vapor's posts has helped me a bit more towards choosing a fan.

 

[Jessica69]

Unfortunately, the Slipstreams are quite overrated in their cfm production, as Vapor's testing showed, and lose a lot with their use on radiators....there are better out there, as aigomorla noted. The YL's are better, but sleeve bearing fans.

Other options to consider are the S-Flex fans which have a 75 cfm model (the "G" model) or even Scythe's Ultra Kaze fans.....87cfm at 33 dBA, which is the 2000 rpm version. I'd think either of those choices would be vastly superior to the weak Slipstreams.


As for radiators, not to crap on Petra's...I've bought quite a lot from them, but while Petra's includes barbs with the rad, the included barbs are the plastic ones which are essentially junk. You really want metal barbs, which you'd have to buy from Petra or anywhere else you end up buying your rad from.....here are some cheaper prices and all are good retailers....


Sidewinder Computers.....MCR220 for $39.95

SVC also with the MCR220 for $39.95



As for your 3/8" vs. 1/2" tubing, unbiased testing between the two showed very little difference in temps cooling a cpu. True, 3/8" tubing is slightly more restrictive than 1/2" tubing is, but using Martin's flow calculator and your pump, an MCR320 radiator and an original D-Tek Fuzion w/quad nozzle as the setup.......7 ft. of 3/8" tubing would cost you 0.13 gpm over using 1.2" tubing....not a horrible amount.

I've been using 3/8" x 5/8" Tygon in my setup because it's a little easier looping it through the case, looks a tad better, drapes nicer, and the 1/8" walls of the tubing is much more kink resistant than tubing with 1/16" walls, like 1/2" x 5/8". To achieve the same in 1/2", you'd have to use 1/2" x 3/4", and that stuff is huge!

A popular compromise is the 7/16" x 11/16" tubing....only 1/16" wider than the 5/8" stuff I'm using and is that same 1/8" wider internally. Maybe something to consider in your setup purchasing decisions.....you'd use 1/2" barbs with that tubing.


Just some things to consider.....and further confuse you.

 

[Arc 0V]

Thanks that helped a lot Jessica ... I am still going to look around and check other fans out, but it looks like it's either going to be the S-Flex or Yate fans. It seems like the forum page of xtremesystems is down or something because I tried 2 days in a row to get in to read Vapor's test posts.

 

[IanY]

To Arc 0V,

Hello. My name is Ian and I'm usually at XtremeSystem's liquid cooling forum where I am a senior member, and I am a good friend of Aigomorla, the moderator of this forum.

Before I get to the fans, I would like to give you some advise about the pump you have selected. Do not choose the MCP-655-B. Choose the MCP-655 Vario.

There have been exhaustive tests by Martin and other expert XS . The 655-B has been proven to be more than just a basic version of the vario pump. In fact, despite the company's literature and online specs, the 655-B's performance has been proven to be "stuck" at setting "4" of the vario pump, and not at setting "5." Even if you do not value the ability to tone down the pump, be aware that the MCP-655-B performs MCP-655. The next issue is pump noise. This is not a true statement across-the-board, but there have been a higher rate of incidence of extremely annoying pump whinning noise from the 655-B, and this is *generally* on the most part, absent from the 655 Vario. Its just my humble opinion that the $5 to $10 price differential on the Vario is well worth the money.

As for fans, a lot depends on your budget and your noise thresholds. The best fans are the Sanyo Denki San Ace, but they cost a lot. Yate Loon medium speeds from Petra's Tech Shop cost only $4 each, in quantites of four, and are extremely good, considering how much they cost. The very expensive fans can top $25 to $30 a piece. Are they worth 5 to 6 times the cost? Hardly. No way. But us enthusaists have a way of seeking only the best So I don't want to mislead you.

Some of the cheap but good medium speed fans are the Scythe Ultra Kaze 2000 rpm (but 38 mm) and the Zalman ZF-3. They cost about $10 each. Like I said, teh Yate Loon medium speed is $4. The San Ace 1011 is $25 each. The Panaflo/NMB Mats medium speed are about $18 each. The EBM Papsts are very hard to get and expensive as well.

 

[Arc 0V]

Thanks a lot for the advice Ian! As far as noise goes, I really don't care and they will be connected to a fan controller either way. Those Sanyo Denki fans are real good it's almost an all in one with high pressure, high cfm, and pretty low noise. I will most likely buy those Sanyo fans, but ... yeah I am getting those.

Found those Sanyo Denki San Ace 1011 fans for about $20 in subzeropcs.com.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: IanY

Before I get to the fans, I would like to give you some advise about the pump you have selected. Do not choose the MCP-655-B. Choose the MCP-655 Vario.

This is very good advice.

The D5 non vario is set at 4.

The vario goes from 1-5.

That 5 setting helps when you use high restrictive parts.

 

[Arc 0V]

Gotcha, I didn't know that it was only like $5 extra otherwise I would have gotten it. Thanks for the advice. It is changed on my parts list on top now!
Ordered 2 Sanyo Denki San Ace fans, woooot! Once they come, it's testing time to see if I like them.

I might order another because it seems like my front (in a NZXT Zero case) SlipStream (1200RPM kind) fan isn't even moving any air. I will test one of the San Ace fans before I buy another to see if it will make a difference. My Raptors get pretty toasty in there because of little to no movement of air.

 

[IanY]

Since you have the appetite for San Aces, then I would suggest that you consider Thermochills, preferrably a PA120.3.

The MCR220 is a good radiator (Swiftech fanboy here), but it has its limitations. If you are travelingw ith a sizable budget, there's no reason to pass on equipment that's among the best. Are you space restricted ? If so, then you have no choice but to stick toa dual radiator. If not, go all out for either a triple PA120.3 or a quad Black Ice 480 GTX.

{warning: I tend to fall on the insane end of the mental spectrum lol}

 

[Arc 0V]

lol, unfortunately I can only fit a 2x120mm radiator . Otherwise I would have chosen a Black Ice GTX 360, or I might go a little higher and either buy a Black Ice GTX 240 or a PA120.2.

 

[IanY]

And therefore you deserve a Thermochill PA120.2 instead of a MCR220.

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: IanY
And therefore you deserve a Thermochill PA120.2 instead of a MCR220.

rofl! and this from a self-proclaimed swiftech fanboy, I hate to admit it but after having both in the triple version I'm not all that impressed with the TC for the price.

 

[IanY]

Originally posted by: WoodButcher

Originally posted by: IanY
And therefore you deserve a Thermochill PA120.2 instead of a MCR220.

rofl! and this from a self-proclaimed swiftech fanboy, I hate to admit it but after having both in the triple version I'm not all that impressed with the TC for the price.

Would you like me to show you my three shoe boxes of Swiftech blocks alone

Who said anything about price? We want performance. Thermochill performs better. It costs three times more but that's all just figures and inconsequential lol