way off topic: banging pipes in my house

[Davegod75]

Hey,

I've run out of places to search and things to try so I'm trying here

My house built in 2001 is having some pipe banging issues. As far as I can tell it's not water hammer (which happens with a sudden stop of water flow). The pipe bangs only when the flow rate is high. For example, if I just turn on one faucet nothing bangs, if I turn on two faucets..no banging. However, if I flush a toliet and turn on the bath, the pipes will bang as long as there is the flow demand.

I've tried draining the pipes from the lowest point several times but that has not fixed it.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this myself?

 

[DesiPower]

Its probably nature's way of saying - Stop wasting water. :biggrin:

Maybe its related to hot water pipe? which is why it happens when you turn shower on? I am guessing you didnt turn hot water on in the faucet...

btw, its not "way off topic", title semi phail.

 

[waffleironhead]

Can you access the piping and see which ones are banging?

 

[Davegod75]

Can you access the piping and see which ones are banging?

not without cutting drywall....that is a last resort...but I can narrow it down to a wall. You're probably thinking a strap broke loose?

 

[Squisher]

Since it happens during high water use I'd say there is some restriction. Think of what happens when you stretch the opening of a balloon and let the air out.

My first inclination would be to look for a valve that is undersized.

 

[amdskip]

Sounds like a strap did not break but rather they did not use enough strapping trying to be cheap.

 

[Iron Woode]

not without cutting drywall....that is a last resort...but I can narrow it down to a wall. You're probably thinking a strap broke loose?

that is the only way to find and fix the problem.

the problem is strapping: either not enough or not placed strategically.

 

[pcgeek11]

Easier fix is to add in an accumulator/absorber which will absorb shocks to the system.

 

[Davegod75]

Easier fix is to add in an accumulator/absorber which will absorb shocks to the system.

isn't this solution for systems with a pump? i.e. well water.

I don't have well water.

 

[squirrel dog]

gee,I think a plumber might know how to get the air out of your pipes . Why don't you call one .

 

[CalvinHobbes]

We have a similar problem with our house and I think it started when we switched the shower head.

Our situation:
1. Flush the toilet in the master bath with the shower off.
2. While the toilet is filling, turn on the shower.
3. When the toilet stops filling the pipes in the shower begin to bang around.

They stop banging if you turn the shower handle to a hotter temp or if you turn on the sink faucet.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I had that too. It is just mice making fun of you.

:biggrin:

 

[Davegod75]

gee,I think a plumber might know how to get the air out of your pipes . Why don't you call one .

gee, the whole point of my posting was to save some money and ask the community. Thanks for your help.

 

[Iron Woode]

We have a similar problem with our house and I think it started when we switched the shower head.

Our situation:
1. Flush the toilet in the master bath with the shower off.
2. While the toilet is filling, turn on the shower.
3. When the toilet stops filling the pipes in the shower begin to bang around.

They stop banging if you turn the shower handle to a hotter temp or if you turn on the sink faucet.

get your water pressure tested. You may need a pressure balance thingy.

also check that you have a correctly installed stack. You need proper air pressure behind water to make things work correctly.

 

[StarTech]

My theory is that one of the valves has gone bad and under some pressure conditions it goes into vibration. It could be a rubber thingy gone bad and flapping on and off.

I fixed a high pitch vibration by replacing a toilet tank valve set. I had a hard time locating why was happening and where because the noise was not localized.

 

[Davegod75]

My theory is that one of the valves has gone bad and under some pressure conditions it goes into vibration. It could be a rubber thingy gone bad and flapping on and off.

I fixed a high pitch vibration by replacing a toilet tank valve set. I had a hard time locating why was happening and where because the noise was not localized.

interesting but this is happening no matter where I turn the water on from. I can have the water on from anywhere (1 or more places, as long as the flow rate is high) and the banging will happen. The banging sound is always in the same place however.

Are you saying a valve near the sound has gone bad or a valve somewhere else? There really isn't a valve close to where the banging sound is. A bathroom sharing a wall I guess. I have held the toilet fill pipe nearest the sound when it was banging before and didn't notice it vibrating or anything.

However, when the banging is occurring I have been near the main water line and it definitely feels the the water enters my house in pumps....if that makes sense. i..e the water is pulsing through it. Could that mean something?

 

[pcgeek11]

isn't this solution for systems with a pump? i.e. well water.

I don't have well water.

It was originally designed for systems with pumps but it works just as good when you use a smaller version and it works like an air standpipe.
like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Water-Surge-Sh.../dp/B000H5MQNM

 

[iGas]

1. Install a small expansion tank or a water hammer arrestor where it is convenience (possibly on the cold water line by the hot water tank, expansion tank is better than water hammer arrestor).

2. Reduce or install a Pressure Reduce Valve (PRV) and drop the pressure to around 60-65 PSI.

3. Open wall and strap down pipe.

It could be that the pipe isn't strap down the the water flow speed is greater than design (old house tend to under size the pipe and have 1/2" lines that service multiple fixtures instead of 3/4" or 1" branch that serve a 1/2" line per fixture). It could also be that the fittings/joins are poorly soldered (a small ball of solder inside pipe) that restricts the flow and there is a trapped air bubble, or simply are trapped air bubble in the water line.

 

[iGas]

interesting but this is happening no matter where I turn the water on from. I can have the water on from anywhere (1 or more places, as long as the flow rate is high) and the banging will happen. The banging sound is always in the same place however.

Are you saying a valve near the sound has gone bad or a valve somewhere else? There really isn't a valve close to where the banging sound is. A bathroom sharing a wall I guess. I have held the toilet fill pipe nearest the sound when it was banging before and didn't notice it vibrating or anything.

However, when the banging is occurring I have been near the main water line and it definitely feels the the water enters my house in pumps....if that makes sense. i..e the water is pulsing through it. Could that mean something?

There is a possibility that a partially open valve seat is bad (only on gate valve, globe valve, or stop valve, but not on ball valve).

Check the shut off valve where the water enter the house (within 3 feet of where pipe frist enter the house), and valve at the hot water tank.

 

[Davegod75]

Thanks for all the good info. Today I was right by the main water line pipe when my wife flushed the toilet and I got a good listen. The sound certainly shakes the pipes a bit and I think it may be coming from the water pressure regulator thing, which is just after the main shutoff valve.

I attached some pictures.

http://img190.imageshack.us/g/img0146cb.jpg/

 

[Davegod75]

ok, I didn't mention this before because I honestly didn't think it was related but now I'm wondering.

The pipe(s) banging is nearest to a toilet where I recently had to replace all the internals. The stuff in the tank doesn't have a float ball and is one of those newer kind of fill thingys (this one http://www.amazon.com/Fluidmaster-4...CAB2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1302442050&sr=8-5). Anyways, I'm thinking the banging started after I did all that work. However, I didn't think it was related because we can turn the water on from anywhere and it bangs.

Is there something I should check with all of inside toilet tank stuff to make sure I didn't do something wrong?

FYI, i even had to replace the fill tank connection and it still drips a bit of water every once and while....cannot it to stop no matter how tight it make it.

 

[StarTech]

Take the toilet out of the equation by closing the shut off valve. Do you still have the problem ?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Your main water line in the house is it 3/4 "? If its 1/2 inch and each run that is connected to it is 1/2" it is possiable to get a water hammer on the last Run off the main supply.

 

[us3rnotfound]

Perhaps the water pressure from the street into your house is too high?

 

[WHAMPOM]

My best guess is too high water pressure or too small feed pipes.