[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

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exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
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hehe, the mud slinging targeted at amd is in full swing. so don't be surprise if there are more of it towards launch, not less.

I am not totally disputing this, but a lot of hardcore AMD fans really stoke this type of reaction. It is really both fanboy camps that result in this outcome...

As of today, there is nothing official from AMD stating they ever created a 8GB version of the 390x. Of course, they never ruled this out either. Taking slides that never were officially from AMD and using that as proof is really silly.

Only time will tell.

On a side note, hoping and expecting can be totally different. I hope AMD is releasing an 8GB model (I probably will buy it if they do) but I am not holding my breathe either. I don't think a lot of people here want AMD to fail, but are skeptical of seeing >4GB 390s based on some recent comments by industry insiders. Again not official, but I don't think either camp can be totally sure it will or will not be released.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
On a side note, hoping and expecting can be totally different. I hope AMD is releasing an 8GB model (I probably will buy it if they do) but I am not holding my breathe either. I don't think a lot of people here want AMD to fail, but are skeptical of seeing >4GB 390s based on some recent comments by industry insiders. Again not official, but I don't think either camp can be totally sure it will or will not be released.

I applaud you on this post. :thumbsup:
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I am not totally disputing this, but a lot of hardcore AMD fans really stoke this type of reaction. It is really both fanboy camps that result in this outcome...

As of today, there is nothing official from AMD stating they ever created a 8GB version of the 390x. Of course, they never ruled this out either. Taking slides that never were officially from AMD and using that as proof is really silly.

Only time will tell.

On a side note, hoping and expecting can be totally different. I hope AMD is releasing an 8GB model (I probably will buy it if they do) but I am not holding my breathe either. I don't think a lot of people here want AMD to fail, but are skeptical of seeing >4GB 390s based on some recent comments by industry insiders. Again not official, but I don't think either camp can be totally sure it will or will not be released.

What is out there to harp on that could show Fiji in a negative light? We had a rumor that it won't be 8GB. That is why anyone who has an interest in seeing this card fail is in here going on and on about it.

They've forgotten about efficiency for the moment though.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
I am not totally disputing this, but a lot of hardcore AMD fans really stoke this type of reaction. It is really both fanboy camps that result in this outcome...

As of today, there is nothing official from AMD stating they ever created a 8GB version of the 390x. Of course, they never ruled this out either. Taking slides that never were officially from AMD and using that as proof is really silly.

Only time will tell.

On a side note, hoping and expecting can be totally different. I hope AMD is releasing an 8GB model (I probably will buy it if they do) but I am not holding my breathe either. I don't think a lot of people here want AMD to fail, but are skeptical of seeing >4GB 390s based on some recent comments by industry insiders. Again not official, but I don't think either camp can be totally sure it will or will not be released.
I don't see what the big deal is though. 4k is only 0.12% of total steam gamers. 1080p is 35% I really, really don't see what all the fuss over 8gb is. the only way for it to make sense is to categorized it as mudslinging.

the correct attitude should be, who cares. the only thing we should care about is game performance. bring on the benchmarks!
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
I don't see what the big deal is though. 4k is only 0.12% of total steam gamers. 1080p is 35% I really, really don't see what all the fuss over 8gb is. the only way for it to make sense is to categorized it as mudslinging.

the correct attitude should be, who cares. the only thing we should care about is game performance. bring on the benchmarks!

So it's totally fine for a flagship card to not be able to handle flagship resolutions/monitors? The people running larger setups should just go over to NV? OK...it's pretty stupid for AMD to totally ignore an entire segment of people who would ALSO be the segment of people willing to dump a lot more money into a card.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
So it's totally fine for a flagship card to not be able to handle flagship resolutions/monitors? The people running larger setups should just go over to NV? OK...it's pretty stupid for AMD to totally ignore an entire segment of people who would ALSO be the segment of people willing to dump a lot more money into a card.
when did 4k become the flagship resolution? D: ahahahahahahaa why not go higher? why not go higher???
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
when did 4k become the flagship resolution? D: ahahahahahahaa why not go higher? why not go higher???

Wait...what? 4k is on the top end of what people are doing. 4k monitors and TVs cost more right now. It stands to reason if they're buying 4k monitors they have the money to buy a flagship card (or will be intending to.) Go find me a monitor suitable for gaming that is higher than 4k.

But that isn't even the point. The point is that at 4GB, you're not future proof if you're at 1440p or higher.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
you couldn't answer my question? good, as expected.

future proof when buying a gpu? seriously? especially with pascal and artic coming in just 1 more year? come on now.
 

stahlhart

Super Moderator Graphics Cards
Dec 21, 2010
4,273
77
91
you couldn't answer my question? good, as expected.

future proof when buying a gpu? seriously? especially with pascal and artic coming in just 1 more year? come on now.

You're headed for a timeout. Give the confrontational attitude a rest, now.
-- stahlhart
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,664
111
106
when did 4k become the flagship resolution? D: ahahahahahahaa why not go higher? why not go higher???

R9 390X is going to be AMD's top end GPU

1440 has acceptable framerates with current GPUs so next step is seeing how AMD's next gen GPUs handle 4K

VSR / DSR also allows playing at high resolutions beyond 1440, so super high resolution gaming applies to a much wider user base nowadays
 

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
772
244
116
Again not official, but I don't think either camp can be totally sure it will or will not be released.

What we can rule out, is that there doesn't seem to be a limitation on HBM.

If and when AMD released a 8GB Fiji, that's an other story.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
You're headed for a timeout. Give the confrontational attitude a rest, now.
-- stahlhart
I think I will do a self imposed break till computex. there is nothing further to discuss unless something credible leaks. gonna lurk.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,758
754
136
Wait...what? 4k is on the top end of what people are doing. 4k monitors and TVs cost more right now. It stands to reason if they're buying 4k monitors they have the money to buy a flagship card (or will be intending to.) Go find me a monitor suitable for gaming that is higher than 4k.

But that isn't even the point. The point is that at 4GB, you're not future proof if you're at 1440p or higher.

There's a few 5K monitors out there, you can even buy 8K monitors/TVs so 4K while less niche isn't a flagship resolution anymore. I think it's pretty insane for anyone to game on a 8K screen today but I am sure someone does.
 

Alatar

Member
Aug 3, 2013
167
1
81
What is out there to harp on that could show Fiji in a negative light? We had a rumor that it won't be 8GB. That is why anyone who has an interest in seeing this card fail is in here going on and on about it.

They've forgotten about efficiency for the moment though.

Have you actually considered the possibility that maybe the latest real rumors were about the 8GB / 4GB situation and not about efficiency and that's why people would be talking about it?

Maybe it's not some weird conspiracy against AMD by people who for some reason don't want to see them succeed. Maybe people are just discussing the new rumors as they come and go...
 

x3sphere

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
722
24
81
www.exophase.com
There's a few 5K monitors out there, you can even buy 8K monitors/TVs so 4K while less niche isn't a flagship resolution anymore. I think it's pretty insane for anyone to game on a 8K screen today but I am sure someone does.

5K - yes. There is an 27" HP monitor with 5K res that costs around $1299, pretty affordable.

I don't know of any consumer 8K displays though.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Have you actually considered the possibility that maybe the latest real rumors were about the 8GB / 4GB situation and not about efficiency and that's why people would be talking about it?

Maybe it's not some weird conspiracy against AMD by people who for some reason don't want to see them succeed. Maybe people are just discussing the new rumors as they come and go...

Never claimed nor described a conspiracy. Why would you misrepresent what I said and give it such a negative label?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
5K - yes. There is an 27" HP monitor with 5K res that costs around $1299, pretty affordable.

I don't know of any consumer 8K displays though.

My point still stands then. My point is quite simply that at 4GB, AMD is less likely to get people to bite who have the money and are looking for a top end card. I'd be happy to see them at 6GB....but not 4GB. At 4GB, I simply wait for the 980ti and watch what prices do. At 8GB, the 390x is a very serious option for me that involves no waiting.
 

x3sphere

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
722
24
81
www.exophase.com
My point still stands then. My point is quite simply that at 4GB, AMD is less likely to get people to bite who have the money and are looking for a top end card. I'd be happy to see them at 6GB....but not 4GB. At 4GB, I simply wait for the 980ti and watch what prices do. At 8GB, the 390x is a very serious option for me that involves no waiting.

Similar thoughts here. I already went for a Titan X, but if I was in the market I'd without question go 980 Ti if performance is similar to 390X (or within 5-10%) and has more VRAM. The 12GB on the Titan is complete overkill, but 6-8GB is what we should be seeing on this year's flagship cards. I criticized Nvidia last year for only including 3GB on the 780/780 Ti, and turns out we are now seeing some situations where those cards are bottlenecked by VRAM. AMD made the right move with 4GB on the R9 series.

I think there's a good chance of most games requiring >4GB at 1440p and beyond if you want to max them out this year and next. 4GB will be fine only if you're on 1080p. Also, interestingly, the requirements for newer games coming out like Batman Arkham Knight are already listing a 980 as required for Ultra settings (and those specs usually are based on 1080p res).
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
136
As of today, there is nothing official from AMD stating they ever created a 8GB version of the 390x. Of course, they never ruled this out either. Taking slides that never were officially from AMD and using that as proof is really silly.

There is nothing official from AMD about the 390X, period. It's not just the amount of RAM we're speculating about; virtually everything else we think we know about the card is educated guesswork. The consensus seems to be that it will have 4096 shaders, but that's never been officially confirmed. We don't even know if it will actually be called the R9 390X; that, too, is speculation.

What we actually know about the 300 series is as follows:

  • AMD's 2015 lineup of video cards will be the R7 300 series for mainstream, and R9 300 series for enthusiast (source: FAD slides)
  • The series will include the "world's first GPUs with HBM technology" (source: FAD slides). Thus there will be at least one actually new GPU.
  • First-generation HBM can take up to four chips per stack; each chip is two gigabits (256MB), so HBM provides 1GB per stack. (Source: Hynix)
  • The OEM cards announced so far have been rebrands (source: 300 series card details on AMD's website, which show shader counts, feature sets, and bus widths exactly matching old parts)
  • The 300 series GPUs will be on a 28nm process; 20nm was tested but ruled out due to excessive costs, and FinFET isn't coming until 2016. (Source: Lisa Su's answers to questions after FAD presentation). We don't know for a fact if they will still be using TSMC, or moving to GloFo 28nm SHP.
I think I covered just about everything. Almost any "information" not in the above bullet points is speculation, guesswork, or derived from alleged leaks (and we know there have been faked leak slides in the past).


Note that unless there's more information from Hynix that I haven't seen, there is no limitation of four HBM stacks listed. Four chips per stack, yes, but that only gets you to 1GB, so you already need four stacks to get to 4GB. Maybe there is some limit I'm not aware of that rules out eight stacks, but so far I've seen nothing solid. My own belief is that the new Fiji card will have 8GB or at least an 8GB option. This is because of several reasons:

  • AMD has generally pushed the amount of VRAM on their cards higher than the competition (3GB on the 7970, 4GB on the R9 290, even 16GB on the FirePro W9100). This has helped provide some level of future-proofing. No reason to think they'd stop now.
  • AMD has to know that having only 1/3 the VRAM of the Titan X would hurt sales. Even if they didn't know that the Titan X would have 12GB, they had to figure it would be at least 6GB; the original Titan had that much already.
  • AMD has emphasized 4K gaming, not only in the marketing of existing Hawaii/Vesuvius cards but in their 2015 FAD slides as well. Gaming at 4K requires a massive amount of VRAM.
  • As noted above, I've seen no firm evidence that there is a technical 4GB per GPU limit for HBM. All the statements to that effect are speculation or rumor.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
The problem is that if you need 1½GB. Then the 1GB card in your case will crawl.

You missed his point completely. For 6 months you keep repeating this:

HBM1 @ 1Ghz = GDDR5 512-bit 8Ghz

1) What if it's not physically possible to design a card 40-60% faster than R9 290X with a GDDR5 512-bit 8Ghz controller in a sub-300W power envelope? What if the 3X performance/watt with HBM1 over GDDR5 is 100% true? That would mean 50-60W+ of extra power usage that would have been wasted on GDDR5 but can now be used for higher clock speeds and enlarging the die (i.e., since you can now accommodate an extra 50-60W of power towards performance transistors)?

2) What if it's not physically possible to fit a 512-bit memory controller inside the same die space without sacrificing "performance transistors" allocated for shaders, TMUs, ROPs, L2 cache, etc.? In other words, a 512-bit GDDR5 memory controller could have meant 20-30mm2 die space wasted over HBM1.

3) What if R9 390X has 640GB/sec memory bandwidth (i.e., HBM1 @ 1.25Ghz), then how how would you make a GDDR5 card with as much memory bandwidth? Not possible.

4) What if HBM1 allows AMD to make a miniITX card with 40-50% more performance over R9 290X due to reduced PCB complexity and moving all of the memory closer to the GPU die? That would result in the world's fastest miniITX card.

5) Extending from point #4, what if going HBM and miniITX allows AMD to release a card where the memory, the GPU and the VRMs are all 100% water-cooled by a 120mm AIO CLC? That would be the most epic design anyone has done. Even EVGA's 980 Hybrid can't claim this. The only way today to have the memory, VRMs and the GPU all water-cooled is to put a full-sized block on a videocard. If the HBM1 is positioned closely to the GPU and the VRM is not far out, it's possible to cool all of them in 1 shot with an AIO CLC and a 'mini' water-block since the PCB is no longer 11-12.5", which means it becomes more cost effective to pursue such a solution.

In that context, if a GDDR5 512-bit Fiji would be way too power hungry OR to keep it at a reasonable TDP AMD would have needed to reduce performance by 15-20% (smaller die size, less transistors, lower GPU clocks), then no doubt 4GB HBM1 >>>>>>>>> 8GB GDDR5 for AMD's flagship card.

It's better to have a card 30-40% faster than GTX980 with 4GB of HBM1 than a card just 10-20% faster than a 980 with 8GB of GDDR5 because performance sells flagships cards before VRAM is even a part of the discussion. If you have 32GB of GDDR5 but your card is barely faster than a 980, no one cares to spend $700 on it. That's why all the arm-chair engineers here suggesting that 4GB HBM1 is an automatic fail over 6-8GB GDDR5 are missing the critical pieces of the puzzle because they can't quantify all the key benefits of HBM1 over GDDR5.


Excellent post JDG. :thumbsup:
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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You obviously forgot everything you posted the last 6 months. Its not me having to invent nonexisting products and technologies to get 8GB you championed so long, just now to go back and claim 4GB is enough and the excuses continue with made up numbers and situations. Its funny how big a hypocrite you are depending on who makes the products.

You have officially lost your privileges to post in this thread. If I see you participating here anymore I will vacation you. I am not dealing with personal attacks and arguing since we know you can't agree to disagree. Everyone doesn't have the same opinion as you.

-Rvenger
 
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raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
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You obviously forgot everything you posted the last 6 months. Its not me having to invent nonexisting products and technologies to get 8GB you championed so long, just now to go back and claim 4GB is enough and the excuses continue with made up numbers and situations. Its funny how big a hypocrite you are depending on who makes the products.

Just like you invented artificial limitations of 4GB for R9 390X. :whiste: We will know who was right and who was wrong in roughly 40 days
 
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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
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There are currently 8GB and 4GB versions of the 290X. As long as it's technologically possible, I would imagine we'll see the same offered on the 390X.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
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Is it technologically possible for HBM1 to have more than 4GB? Or is an Einstein Rosen Bridge required to accomplish this? Is that how it was designed to be? Or is that reserved for HBM2 and beyond?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Is it technologically possible for HBM1 to have more than 4GB? Or is an Einstein Rosen Bridge required to accomplish this? Is that how it was designed to be? Or is that reserved for HBM2 and beyond?

Here is Hynix take on it:


 
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