[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

[jackstar7]

Edit: Honestly, I wonder if we will reach a point where you can just order the GPU PCB and just forget all the cooling? Give me stock speeds with great power phases and chokes. I will handle the performance tweaking and find a block/CLC/fan that I want to use...

While there would obviously be a market for that, I'm not sure it could come with any kind of warranty and I think that would make it a tough thing for potential buyers to stomach.

I agree that it would be pretty great to have that kind of flexibility and theoretically lower overhead on the product though.

 

[Azix]

I think 5 years from now, CLCs will be more popular than air coolers on GPUs. Air cooling has come a long way, but air cooled GPUs are now as large and heavy as bricks. Air cooling has been maxed out in terms of power density (not total power) for a while now too. CLCs raise the ceiling on both by a pretty decent amount.

for higher end maybe. For everything else air would still be it. Maybe more common to have integrated water block without the pump etc though.

 

[tential]

well, no, i didn't know that. thanks!

Maybe people simply just don't know this then. But I thought it was common knowledge the reveal is e3 pc gamer show. If people don't know this amd needs to step up and say it.

Just poor marketing from amd. No surprise though their marketing is why they are in the situation they're in. If you gave amd nvidia gpu lineup for the last 5 years and amd gpu line up to nvidia nvidia would still be top purchased by a landslide. Marketing sells products and amd doesn't know how to do that. A team of children with Twitter accounts would market better

 

[tential]

While there would obviously be a market for that, I'm not sure it could come with any kind of warranty and I think that would make it a tough thing for potential buyers to stomach.

I agree that it would be pretty great to have that kind of flexibility and theoretically lower overhead on the product though.

I really don't know enough about the gpu, but the gpu from amd is pretty small. Is there a point where we can condense the gpu into a vram and gpu die so that it would plug into the mobo similar to how the cpu and ram do now? Then you can decide what cooler to use?

Considering how small the amd fiji board is it seems possible to put that kind of stuff on the mobo but I'm no engineer and I'm a business and performance numbers guy.

 

[MrTeal]

AIO CLC benefits GPUs more than CPUs, which means it's a good bet that it might take off in this area as well. It's just a matter of NV adopting it. The point you make about pumps failing is legitimate which is why I am a big advocate for all GPU makers to start offering 5-year-warranties, if not standard, then maybe for a $25-35 fee per a flagship $500-700 card.

AIO coolers are almost a perfect fit for GPUs, other than there being no standardization on the form factor like there is for ATX expansion slots.
With a CPU, even the best AIOs don't have a big advantage over a good tower cooler. An NH-D15 is 150mmx161mmx165mm though, and has lots open airspace around it in a case designed to keep the CPU cool. It's no problem to air cool even a 150W CPU like that with almost silent operation.
With a double slot GPU, you get 40mmx250-270mmx~90mm, and that's including the space for the board itself. Trying to cool 300W in that space (especially next to another card) means you need to move a LOT of air. Using water to move the heat dissipation somewhere else in the case where you can increase the surface area is almost a no brainer.

I agree with you on the pump warranty issues. I've returned almost a dozen H220s with pump issues, so it's not an idle concern. One possible solution might be to move the pump off the block (CoolIt, Asetek, H220 style) and integrate it into the rad (H220X style) allowing it to be more easily replaced without removing the block. It would also allow the manufacturers to make a standardized pump/res/rad unit, and just vary the waterblock for each board. For something like Fiji with the memory on-chip and the VRMs much closer, it would be trivial to make a small, low cost full coverage block standard.

 

[Udgnim]

Maybe people simply just don't know this then. But I thought it was common knowledge the reveal is e3 pc gamer show. If people don't know this amd needs to step up and say it.

Just poor marketing from amd. No surprise though their marketing is why they are in the situation they're in. If you gave amd nvidia gpu lineup for the last 5 years and amd gpu line up to nvidia nvidia would still be top purchased by a landslide. Marketing sells products and amd doesn't know how to do that. A team of children with Twitter accounts would market better

don't think AMD outright said it until the Computex presentation

there were rumors posted that it would be E3 and also it was suggested on forums because AMD is headlining the E3 PC Gaming Conference

don't think Nvidia gave much notice on when GTX 980Ti would be released. difference is that Nvidia released it weeks ahead of AMD's release and at a price point lower than expected given the performance.

 

[ElFenix]

Maybe people simply just don't know this then. But I thought it was common knowledge the reveal is e3 pc gamer show. If people don't know this amd needs to step up and say it.

not sure why that should be common knowledge. what should amd be doing? spam email? ads in forums? i've not seen nvidia do that either. sorry i can't keep up with a 2500 post thread.

 

[exar333]

I really don't know enough about the gpu, but the gpu from amd is pretty small. Is there a point where we can condense the gpu into a vram and gpu die so that it would plug into the mobo similar to how the cpu and ram do now? Then you can decide what cooler to use?

Considering how small the amd fiji board is it seems possible to put that kind of stuff on the mobo but I'm no engineer and I'm a business and performance numbers guy.

It is definitely possible. HBM/HMC will make this much more viable down the road. The trade-off is the added complexity (cost) to the MB and the dangers of anything failing on the MB and now you are out of a working computer. Today, you can just swap out a GPU on your desktop build. Its really one of the biggest advantages to a desktop build today, IMHO, vs. laptops. PC gaming has, traditionally, valued the ability to update/tweak/etc. with relative ease. We already off-loaded a lot from the MB to the CPU already...

 

[krumme]

It is definitely possible. HBM/HMC will make this much more viable down the road. The trade-off is the added complexity (cost) to the MB and the dangers of anything failing on the MB and now you are out of a working computer. Today, you can just swap out a GPU on your desktop build. Its really one of the biggest advantages to a desktop build today, IMHO, vs. laptops. PC gaming has, traditionally, valued the ability to update/tweak/etc. with relative ease. We already off-loaded a lot from the MB to the CPU already...

Perhaps the reason zen apu is 2017 is because you need hbm in 8/16GB for it?

 

[exar333]

Perhaps the reason zen apu is 2017 is because you need hbm in 8/16GB for it?

Most likely.

Today, we can already see the limitations for AMD's APUs with memory bandwidth. The performance picks-up considerably on the better modules with 1866mhz+ memory. Intel has eDRAM which works great, but is small (needs a lot of work to optimize) and is expensive.

HBM/HMC will open-up a LOT of possibilities for CPU SKUs with pretty good graphics. Even eating into some lower-mid level graphics (think sub GTX 960 or R9 270 classes).

Same with GPUs. They can get smaller, and more powerful.

 

[_UP_]

So, here's my prediction. I think it works well with most credible leaks so far.
I think that there is a Fiji card that just "underperforms" the 980Ti, but that one is not the full Fiji. I can't find it now, and this thread is way too long to look through (tried searching to no avail), but there was a rumour that Fiji XT or however they'll call it, the WCE, will be sold by AMD. Now, I'm not sure if that means that they'll sell it directly to consumers (I highly doubt that), or just to the AIB's but as a complete product and not as a die (more plausible to me), but that means that there's a very good chance that AIB's haven't seen it yet. So, all performance leaks (including the one from last year) are correct and true, to the best die they have - Fiji Pro. In that case, a second tier card that basically performs as the top card from NV, while (hopefully, going by history) being cheaper makes a lot of sense. This leaves a lot of space for Fiji XT to outperform TX by a lot. Especially if all of the die calculations and measurements are true, we might see a huge difference between the Fiji XT WCE to the second tier one. That would also explain the price gap being so large - it will be for a lot of performance. I don't know if it'll be as fast as the R9 295X2 (but one can dream ), but has a good chance of getting close. I think that when AMD say that they are making the fastest GPU on the planet, they are hinting at the 295X2 and not TX.

As for why they are not leaking anything, well I think it is clear. As long as nothing is concrete, especially if the card is that good and outperforms the TX by that much (say 20-35%), why would they give NV a chance to prepare? If I had something like this, I'd want to catch my competitor with their "pants down" staring aimlessly at the benchmarks in disbelief. I wouldn't want to let them have a prepared statement or reaction. I wouldn't want to give them any chance to do anything. And keeping all of the manufacturing for themselves (as in the rumour I mentioned earlier), they can make sure there are no leaks, as only they know (because only they have the complete product and can test it).

All in all, I think we are seeing a new AMD here. One that plays to win and not plays to be a second fiddle. I think (hope?) that Lisa Su is the right person and has a vision on how to do this.

 

[Cloudfire777]

LOL.

The PowerColor card that was shown to the public and made news pretty much everywhere as the upcoming 390X, was a R9 290X with hybrid water cooling. They just wanted to show the new prototype cooler

So yeah, it was not a 390X. The PCB like I said revealed that it was a 290X.

http://www.eteknix.com/powercolor-clarifies-details-on-amd-390x-photos-at-computex/

 

[Azix]

That's what I thought, but you jump on these thins like its all obvious fact. Or are you not the one claiming it showed that the 390x was straight rebrand?

LOL.

The PowerColor card that was shown to the public and made news pretty much everywhere as the upcoming 390X, was a R9 290X with hybrid water cooling. They just wanted to show the new prototype cooler

So yeah, it was not a 390X. The PCB like I said revealed that it was a 290X.

http://www.eteknix.com/powercolor-clarifies-details-on-amd-390x-photos-at-computex/

 

[Cloudfire777]

That's what I thought, but you jump on these thins like its all obvious fact. Or are you not the one claiming it showed that the 390x was straight rebrand?

Stop trying to twist facts.

I said that card was a R9 290X rebrand if it was a 390X based on the PCB. And I was right, it was a 290X.
Thats the whole concept behind a rebrand, same chip, different name

 

[boozzer]

You've added so little to the topic at hand, I'm wondering why you even bothered to respond to me...

But I guess this is the type of response I should expect from someone who isn't smart enough to come up with a counterpoint. :thumbsup:

it wasn't a response

 

[Keysplayr]

It is impressive looking for sure. If it has performance to match the reviews will be very interesting.

On another note....If you throw a Nvidia logo on there we'd be hearing things like.: Final death blow to AMD, last nail in the coffin, etc.

It is impressive looking. About that other note, it is entirely possible that AMD hit a home run with HBM. It is also entirely possible that AMD utilized HBM just one gen too early. It's a total wait and see, I know.

 

[jackstar7]

LOL.

The PowerColor card that was shown to the public and made news pretty much everywhere as the upcoming 390X, was a R9 290X with hybrid water cooling. They just wanted to show the new prototype cooler

So yeah, it was not a 390X. The PCB like I said revealed that it was a 290X.

http://www.eteknix.com/powercolor-clarifies-details-on-amd-390x-photos-at-computex/

Wow... that's how you remember that going yesterday?

Man. You're something.

Nice to see how people jump all over everything scrounging for details. AMD is keeping it tight on this new lineup.

 

[RaulF]

Stop trying to twist facts.

I said that card was a R9 290X rebrand if it was a 390X based on the PCB. And I was right, it was a 290X.
Thats the whole concept behind a rebrand, same chip, different name

Wow.

You have issues.

 

[IEC]

LOL.

The PowerColor card that was shown to the public and made news pretty much everywhere as the upcoming 390X, was a R9 290X with hybrid water cooling. They just wanted to show the new prototype cooler

So yeah, it was not a 390X. The PCB like I said revealed that it was a 290X.

http://www.eteknix.com/powercolor-clarifies-details-on-amd-390x-photos-at-computex/

versus:

Here is a dead giveaway that R9 390X is R9 290X rebrand (as if we didnt have enough).

R9 390X board is marked as "LF R29FA"
Picture

They use this on PowerColour R9 290X cards
http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/step1_complist?gpu_gpus=1477

and then this post:

Stop trying to twist facts.

I said that card was a R9 290X rebrand if it was a 390X based on the PCB. And I was right, it was a 290X.
Thats the whole concept behind a rebrand, same chip, different name

 

[ocre]

Cloudfire was going by what he was told. Just like you guys are now when y are hanging up on him.

Lay off him

 

[Hitman928]

The problem is he has no discretion for posting unsubstantiated rumors as if they are verified and has even been warned by mods for doing it so often. If he just started with, hey, here's the latest random rumor, there's no verification for it but just sharing, people wouldn't care and would actually probably appreciate his efforts. This is what pretty much everyone else does except him.

 

[tential]

LOL.

The PowerColor card that was shown to the public and made news pretty much everywhere as the upcoming 390X, was a R9 290X with hybrid water cooling. They just wanted to show the new prototype cooler

So yeah, it was not a 390X. The PCB like I said revealed that it was a 290X.

http://www.eteknix.com/powercolor-clarifies-details-on-amd-390x-photos-at-computex/

That was painfully obvious....

Edit:wow.... Looks like other posters beat me to the punch lol and went far more in detail.

 

[Creig]

Stop trying to twist facts.

I said that card was a R9 290X rebrand if it was a 390X based on the PCB. And I was right, it was a 290X.
Thats the whole concept behind a rebrand, same chip, different name

Except that this turned out to be a straight 290X. No rebrand, no nothing. So you were wrong yet again.

Here is a dead giveaway that R9 390X is R9 290X rebrand (as if we didnt have enough).

The representative at the PowerColor booth confirmed this. Underneath the beefy cooler is an AMD Radeon R9 290X card and it is equipped with a prototype DEVIL 13 Hybrid cooling solution. So sadly, this is neither a finished new card nor the highly expected Radeon R9 390X card.

 

[SimianR]

Yeah I'm curious as whether it's going to be exactly the same cards except with a small clock bump and more VRAM or if they're are going to be other tweaks made to the chips as well. It might seem ridiculous to some that AMD isn't rebranding these cards as lower model numbers (like 290x to 380) but I guess when you consider that NVIDIA's maxwell releases might have had impressive perf/w they weren't insane performance jumps above their 700 series cards (It was only recently that Maxwell really seemed to move away from Kepler in performance - perhaps because a lack of driver optimization). The 290/290X are in striking distance of the 970/980 - and I'm guessing AMD doesn't see the point in throwing too many resources at more 28nm chips when both companies will be moving to a smaller node next year.

 

[soccerballtux]

The GloFo approach to 28nm was more ambitious than the TSMC approach. GloFo transistors should perform better (drive current is lower but device capacitance is much lower which more than compensates) and leak less current. However, TSMC bet that their approach would be much easier and faster to get to production and slightly easier to design for so they'd get most of the major design wins. In hindsight, TSMC could not have been more correct -- GloFo 28nm only really reached good production status at the very tail end of the period where 28nm is the top node, and TSMC, as usual, extracted nearly all of the profits from foundry business.

One way to think of it is that the GloFo 28nm is like a quarter or a sixth node improvement over TSMC 28nm, but it's only coming online now.

A lot of people here seem to be predicting that most of the AMD GPU line will switch over to GloFo for 300-series. I frankly don't see this happening, as making all those masks can't possibly be worth it. We might see a chip or two do the switch.

they're re-masking anyways for the 300-series are they not?