[WCCF] Intel Skylake 2015 Platform Details Revealed

[ShintaiDK]

I guess, always pushing forward. Just on the desktop front seems pointless: What does Haswell/Haswell Refresh not handle that Broadwell brings to table? Doesn't seem like those adopting Broadwell get much over what H/HR brings and then boom Skylake comes out and EOL them.

Broadwell only comes to the desktop in form of Broadwell-K. Else its directly to Skylake. Desktop gets Skylake before mobile.

 

[rockfella79]

Any word on performance jumps with Skylake as compared to Haswell refresh?

 

[jpiniero]

Doesn't seem like those adopting Broadwell get much over what H/HR brings and then boom Skylake comes out and EOL them.

It doesn't really EOL it, considering there won't be Skylake-K until sometime well into 2016. Plus, Broadwell-K will be likely be faster (assuming you can OC it at all) than the locked Skylake quads and use cheaper DDR3. Plus you get a much faster IGP and better compute.

 

[witeken]

Any word on performance jumps with Skylake as compared to Haswell refresh?

"Significant", but take with grain of salt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMSdor65BBY

 

[chucky2]

Broadwell only comes to the desktop in form of Broadwell-K. Else its directly to Skylake. Desktop gets Skylake before mobile.

It doesn't really EOL it, considering there won't be Skylake-K until sometime well into 2016. Plus, Broadwell-K will be likely be faster (assuming you can OC it at all) than the locked Skylake quads and use cheaper DDR3. Plus you get a much faster IGP and better compute.

So you guys are saying we're going to go from Haswell to Skylake for everything but Desktop, and that Desktop Skylake will come before Mobile Skylake, and that Desktop Skylake isn't hitting until well into 2016?

For some reason I was thinking we were getting Desktop Broadwell at some point early in 2015 (1Q) and then Desktop Skylake 4Q 2015. If it's true that Desktop Broadwell is hitting 1Q15 and that Desktop Skylake isn't hitting mid'ish 2016, then I can see a point to Desktop Broadwell.

 

[witeken]

Skylake will launch in H2 of 2015.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So you guys are saying we're going to go from Haswell to Skylake for everything but Desktop, and that Desktop Skylake will come before Mobile Skylake, and that Desktop Skylake isn't hitting until well into 2016?

For some reason I was thinking we were getting Desktop Broadwell at some point early in 2015 (1Q) and then Desktop Skylake 4Q 2015. If it's true that Desktop Broadwell is hitting 1Q15 and that Desktop Skylake isn't hitting mid'ish 2016, then I can see a point to Desktop Broadwell.

You keep getting it wrong.

And the only Broadwell for consumer desktop is Broadwell-K.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Makes me wonder why Intel released the i7 4790K when they did.

Now the wait between it and something better, seems interminably long.

 

[IntelUser2000]

The Wikipedia specs of Skylake are quite interesting. Too bad no source is mentioned for some, like for cache:

128 KB L1 cache (64 KB 16-way set associative instruction cache + 64 KB 16-way set associative data cache) (2 cycles)[citation needed]
512 KB L2 cache, 16-way set associative (6 cycles)[citation needed]
12 MB L3 cache, 24-way set associative (12 cycles)[citation needed]

It feels like it's been a long time since the last architecture deep dive, I hope we at least get a Gen8 architecture overview at Computex.

The fact that HWBot's information on Skylake suggests otherwise makes me think these are just uninformed posters making edits on Wikipedia. I've seen errors like that on Wikipedia before.

Also they claimed the same thing for Haswell few years before release. Do not believe them. According to someone that knows CPUs well, the conclusion was in order to reach those clock cycles with that big of a cache, it would only occur in a dream or clock significantly lower than CPUs today.

That's possible if Intel decides to drastically reduce average clock speeds again(say, a 3GHz 4790K), and try to increase IPC to compensate for it. I was thinking that would be a good counter to Apple's A chips in the mobile space.

 

[jpiniero]

and that Desktop Skylake isn't hitting until well into 2016?

They are releasing Skylake quad desktop chips in 2015. September or October maybe? They will be locked and slower than Broadwell-K.

Makes me wonder why Intel released the i7 4790K when they did.

Broadwell-K, assuming it can overclock somewhat decently, should be able to be faster than the 4790K esp given the edram. But it won't be by much.

 

[III-V]

Makes me wonder why Intel released the i7 4790K when they did.

Now the wait between it and something better, seems interminably long.

Wasn't supposed to take that long. They released it before they were able to recognize the extent of their yield issues.

I think it'd be silly for them to artificially delay it, though.

 

[chucky2]

You keep getting it wrong.

And the only Broadwell for consumer desktop is Broadwell-K.

So Intel is going to only release Broadwell-K, no other Broadwell ecosystem will exist except for -K, then they'll go right into Skylake?

They are releasing Skylake quad desktop chips in 2015. September or October maybe? They will be locked and slower than Broadwell-K.

I've got it now (I think/hope), Intel is only releasing the performance version of Broadwell. It means that instead of my previous comments suggesting that was a pretty short duration of Broadwell before Skylake, it's even worse in that there will be no other Broadwell other than B-K...that's even worse sorta in terms of Broadwell.

Good for us though Skylake is hitting towards end of this year...

 

[III-V]

So Intel is going to only release Broadwell-K, no other Broadwell ecosystem will exist except for -K, then they'll go right into Skylake?

Well, Broadwell exists for mobile. You can buy it right now.

Assuming you were talking about desktop though, Broadwell-K will be the only socketed version available. They'll certainly have BGA Broadwell, though, for AIOs and the like.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Wasn't supposed to take that long. They released it before they were able to recognize the extent of their yield issues.

I think it'd be silly for them to artificially delay it, though.

The i7 4790K itself feels "artificial".

We never saw a variant like it for the previous generations, and it is the sort of product you release as a stop gap, when your next generation is going to be late.

There was no pressing need for it at the time of its release, yet if it had been released now, the timing would have been perfect.

 

[eternalone]

What will AMD do once skylake drops?? There will be no literally reason to buy an AMD cpu even at low end. By the way Im using an AMD cpu.

 

[TechFan1]

The i7 4790K itself feels "artificial".

We never saw a variant like it for the previous generations, and it is the sort of product you release as a stop gap, when your next generation is going to be late.

There was no pressing need for it at the time of its release, yet if it had been released now, the timing would have been perfect.

My impression was that Devil's Canyon was an overclocked Haswell for PC Gamers who don't want to actually do the overclocking. PC Gaming is helped by all the single threaded performance you get. Hopefully DX12 makes things a little better. Here is a link that describes some of the problem.
http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/460524/DirectX_11_vs_DirectX_12_oversimplified

 

[l0rdraiden]

Will there be an update version of this procesor with Skylake?
http://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz
I see roadmaps for i3/5/7 but nothing about pentium/celeron for desktop

 

[ShintaiDK]

Will there be an update version of this procesor with Skylake?
http://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz
I see roadmaps for i3/5/7 but nothing about pentium/celeron for desktop

The product you list is a Baytrail CPU. That one will be updated to Cherrytrail.

The current Haswell based Celerons and Pentiums will be updated to Skylake with time.

 

[ninaholic37]

The i7 4790K itself feels "artificial".

We never saw a variant like it for the previous generations, and it is the sort of product you release as a stop gap, when your next generation is going to be late.

I wonder if they got this idea from the AMD FX-9590 :sneaky:

 

[jaydee]

You keep getting it wrong.

And the only Broadwell for consumer desktop is Broadwell-K.

The roadmap shows "Skylake-S" in Q2 of 2015... does that mean only ~65W TDP and under desktop CPU's? Will the difference between Broadwell and Skylake not only be "K" and "non-K", but also TDP (clockspeed) limitations on Skylake to push power users to Broadwell-K (help unload 9-series chipsets)?

 

[III-V]

I wonder if they got this idea from the AMD FX-9590 :sneaky:

Devil's Canyon actually has some worthwhile changes under the hood, though.

 

[cytg111]

The roadmap shows "Skylake-S" in Q2 of 2015... does that mean only ~65W TDP and under desktop CPU's? Will the difference between Broadwell and Skylake not only be "K" and "non-K", but also TDP (clockspeed) limitations on Skylake to push power users to Broadwell-K (help unload 9-series chipsets)?

Yea, that makes no sense, The alleged "Significant" performance improvements of skylake and its co-existence with broadwell-k raises some questions.

 

[mikk]

The roadmap shows "Skylake-S" in Q2 of 2015... does that mean only ~65W TDP and under desktop CPU's? Will the difference between Broadwell and Skylake not only be "K" and "non-K", but also TDP (clockspeed) limitations on Skylake to push power users to Broadwell-K (help unload 9-series chipsets)?

No it doesn't mean that. There are three TDP ranges for the 4+2 SKL-S according to Roadmaps: 35W, 65W and 95W. Keep in mind TDP could differ.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yea, that makes no sense, The alleged "Significant" performance improvements of skylake and its co-existence with broadwell-k raises some questions.

Haswell-E will coexist with Skylake-S.

That said, not really sure why Intel is bothering with Broadwell-K. Skylake should have a far better GPU/media subsystem and a heavily improved CPU uArch.

Is Intel just trying to give Z97 buyers an upgrade path?

 

[jpiniero]

That said, not really sure why Intel is bothering with Broadwell-K.

Intel is moving the K line to the best IGP. The cynic in me suggests that this is an attempt to justify raising the price. Broadwell-K will be 4+3e, Skylake-K will be 4+4e, etc.