Discussion [WCCFTech] What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles?

[coercitiv]

Starfield literally released today (heck anyone without the premium versions can't play it yet) and there's already a free mod adding DLSS/XESS integration here, so unless modders have time machines it indeed is something that can be done in a matter of hours..

No need for a time machine, just access to the review builds that were made available about 2 weeks ago.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

No need for a time machine, just access to the review builds that were made available about 2 weeks ago.

Or maybe he was a beta tester.

 

[insertcarehere]

No need for a time machine, just access to the review builds that were made available about 2 weeks ago.

And I am assuming in your world, modders with enough influence to get reviewers to break their NDAs with Bethesda (not an easy task given the consequences if discovered)....would turn around and release such a deeply desired mod...for free?

 

[H433x0n]

Starfield literally released today (heck anyone without the premium versions can't play it yet) and there's already a free mod adding DLSS/XESS integration here, so unless modders have time machines it indeed is something that can be done in a matter of hours..

Yeah, can confirm it works fine too. I’ve got it installed and running right now. A quick and dirty DLSS implementation can absolutely be done in a few hours, that was always a dumb argument.

If we can expect free DLSS mods released on launch day - I don’t care about AMD sponsored games exclusively having FSR anymore. Let them block it to their hearts content - it doesn’t really matter if there are community driven efforts that will pick up the slack.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

There are more RTX capable cards than there are AMD cards in existence.

Proof is where?
RTX capable cards are only 20, 30 and 40 series.
AMD bought in 2006, so I highly doubt Nvidia managed to sell more RX capable cards within 3 generations than AMD in >10 generations.
Then let's not forget about consoles. How many were sold over the years with an AMD GPU inside?

 

[coercitiv]

And I am assuming in your world

Nah, in my world I don't make assumptions about who had access to a game, or the terms of access, in order to support my agenda. That's your preference, you seem to enjoy assuming a lot about gaming companies, mod devs, NDAs, and even me apparently.

There are better ways of arguing DLSS implemetation is relatively low effort once the preparation work was done for one of the other upscalers. No need to hunt for gotchas.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Yeah, can confirm it works fine too. I’ve got it installed and running right now. A quick and dirty DLSS implementation can absolutely be done in a few hours, that was always a dumb argument.

If we can expect free DLSS mods released on launch day - I don’t care about AMD sponsored games exclusively having FSR anymore. Let them block it to their hearts content - it doesn’t really matter if there are community driven efforts that will pick up the slack.

Can you finally give us some proof that AMD is really blocking It?

They don't need to do It.
Nvidia helps them more than enough by allowing DLSS only on their GPUs and DLSS3 is limited to the latest generation.
AMD by having consoles is also a big incentive in using FSR instead.

edit:
PS5: 41.7 million units sold
Xbox Series X/S: 21 million units sold
That's already 62 million units. Not such a small number.

 

[insertcarehere]

Nah, in my world I don't make assumptions about who had access to a game, or the terms of access, in order to support my agenda. That's your preference, you seem to enjoy assuming a lot about gaming companies, mod devs, NDAs, and even me apparently.

And yet...

No need for a time machine, just access to the review builds that were made available about 2 weeks ago.

Your response to a day 1 DLSS mod was assuming that the modder must have had access to the game before release, so which is it? Either:
- Day 1 DLSS mere hours after release means it realliy isn't that hard to implement, or;
- if DLSS implementation isn't so low effort, then said modder has the sort of influence to get review copies pre-release, but then...why release it for free?

 

[Bigos]

I hope this modder tested the whole game on all possible scenarios. Mods are known for great QA, right?

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

I hope this modder tested the whole game on all possible scenarios. Mods are known for great QA, right?

The mod is already being reported to have issues in the comments btw.
Making a mod is one thing, verifying that it works in all scenarios is such a big game is quite another.

 

[Shmee]

All this being said, I would not underestimate the power of motivated and talented modders. They very often improve, fix, and accomplish new things that major devs and publishers cannot, or don't care to do anymore.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Can you finally give us some proof that AMD is really blocking It?

They don't need to do It.
Nvidia helps them more than enough by allowing DLSS only on their GPUs and DLSS3 is limited to the latest generation.
AMD by having consoles is also a big incentive in using FSR instead.

edit:
PS5: 41.7 million units sold
Xbox Series X/S: 21 million units sold
That's already 62 million units. Not such a small number.

DLSS 3 isn't exclusive to 40 series, frame generation is.

Those console sales numbers are through the end of June so a couple of months old already. The 2 vendors have combined for millions more units sold since then. The latest Sony promotion seems to be doing well. Probably closer to 70 million 9th gen sold now.

As to AMD blocking other upscalers, as was cited early in this discussion, paying for exclusivity is nothing new. I have games 20yrs old with exclusive Nvidia features and that girl whispering Nvidiaaaa while the logo gets in your face.

AMD says the game makers can add other upscalers if they want. Which brings us back to Occam's Razor: they haven't added them because there is no financial incentive. Whereas AMD spent time, effort, and money on FSR support in the titles. If Scott Herkelman is to be believed, adding muliple upscalers adds complexity. From an interview he just did with Club386 where he talks about upscaling -

"Club386: AMD Fluid Motion Frame (AFMF) technology, coming early next year, has us intrigued. Promising to work with all DX11 and DX12 titles, how much of a game-changer do you believe it to be?

SH: We’re excited about making it available on thousands of titles and providing gamers with great performance uplifts. It’s still early, so we’ll have optimisations to do, but what we want is for the broad masses to benefit from frame generation. This time next year, we’ll all reflect on the AFMF announcement and see it will be even better, driving more adoption across DX11 and DX12.

If I were to be blunt with you, it’s a little concerning that we’re still in this bifurcation stage. For example, with FSR, DLSS and XeSS, a game developer has to think about three different standards. That’s a lot of additional complexity that game developers shouldn’t have to deal with, so this is our push to say, “hey look, there is a way we can do this for everyone by working together and consolidating efforts.” Hopefully, we get to a one-standard approach for all, where developers can focus on making the best games and we focus on building the best hardware."

Full interview - https://www.club386.com/scott-herke...ss-answers-your-burning-rx-7800-xt-questions/

For anyone that is upset Nvidia only has frame generation on 40 series. You can rage on AMD now too. Only RDNA3 is getting AMD fluid frame motion, at least for a good while.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

What
AMD fluid frame motion for only RDNA3?
I thought they will allow It at least for RDNA2 which is in the current consoles and the Nvidia counterparts.
Shame on you AMD!

@DAPUNISHER yes, you are right, DLSS3 is not blocked only frame generation, but that's basically the main feature of DLSS3.

 

[exquisitechar]

What
AMD fluid frame motion for only RDNA3?
I thought they will allow It at least for RDNA2 which is in the current consoles and the Nvidia counterparts.
Shame on you AMD!

Fluid frame motion is just the driver level feature that will work on all DX11/DX12 games and I'm sceptical about how well it will even work.

FSR3 is implemented per game and will run on anything.

 

[uzzi38]

What
AMD fluid frame motion for only RDNA3?
I thought they will allow It at least for RDNA2 which is in the current consoles and the Nvidia counterparts.
Shame on you AMD!

@DAPUNISHER yes, you are right, DLSS3 is not blocked only frame generation, but that's basically the main feature of DLSS3.

For now, yes. If the public reaction to it is good, they said they'll look at implementing it for RDNA2 as well if possible, but right now, the focus is to get it working properly for RDNA3.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The quote -
"Club386: Why have you, in the first instance, limited AFMF to RDNA 3-based GPUs by integrating the software technology into upcoming HYPER-RX, when overarching FSR is available on more generations?

SH: We have to start somewhere. I can say we’re exploring enablement for older generations. Do remember we’re launching a few things close together – FSR 3, HYPER-RX, AFMF – and so we had to limit something by prioritising and focussing the teams. There is an exploration happening, so if there is good reception of AFMF and gamers believe it to be worthwhile, we’ll take it to the next step and see if we can enable it on RDNA 2. If that goes well, then maybe older generations, too. For now, we’re focussing on getting AFMF to market."

My hot take is that it is going to take an outcry on the level of what happened with adding Zen 3 support to older AM4 chipsets to get the feature on RDNA2.

 

[H433x0n]

Can you finally give us some proof that AMD is really blocking It?

They don't need to do It.
Nvidia helps them more than enough by allowing DLSS only on their GPUs and DLSS3 is limited to the latest generation.
AMD by having consoles is also a big incentive in using FSR instead.

edit:
PS5: 41.7 million units sold
Xbox Series X/S: 21 million units sold
That's already 62 million units. Not such a small number.

There’s nothing I could say that would change anybody’s mind. I’m also no longer annoyed by the lack of DLSS since it seems I’ll have a reliable way to use it through modders.

I’m not white knighting for nvidia. The only reason I was ever concerned was for a very practical reason. I like to run 4K DLSS performance in the summer to cut the power consumption (heat) in my office in half. For many games it’s the difference of 150W (Returnal goes from 370W Native -> 220W DLSS performance for example). This problem is now solved so what AMD does with their Radeon division is irrelevant to me now.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

There’s nothing I could say that would change anybody’s mind.

You don't need to say anything, just show some proof. If you don't have any, then don't blame others for not sharing your opinion.

 

[Heartbreaker]

DLSS and XeSS already modded into Starfield....

Mod unavailable

This mod is not currently available

www.nexusmods.com

 

[H433x0n]

You don't need to say anything, just show some hard proof. If you don't have any, then don't blame It on others that they don't want to change their opinion about It.

There’s never going to be hard proof unless you get somebody from AMD and Bethesda to leak documents. Even if there was hard proof I don’t think anybody changes their mind. It’s a pointless debate.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

DLSS and XeSS already modded into Starfield....

Mod unavailable

This mod is not currently available

www.nexusmods.com

Yup. That was posted in the PC gaming forum yesterday. The reason he has it out so quickly is -

"There have been a lot of incorrect reports that PureDark has received a review code of Starfield to allow his mod to be developed quickly. This is not true, with PureDark confirming that his day-1 release plans for his DLSS 2/3 mod is due to his ability to re-utilise around 90% of his DLSS mod code from previous projects."

If anyone here joins the Patreon, you get access to frame generation. I surmise few here are interested in it though judging by what is posted.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

There’s never going to be hard proof unless you get somebody from AMD and Bethesda to leak documents. Even if there was hard proof I don’t think anybody changes their mind. It’s a pointless debate.

This whole thread is worthless, but user like you who own Nvidia GPU but don't have DLSS in games they play just had to blame It on someone(something).
And the punching bag is AMD in this case, it doesn't matter that you don't have any evidence, AMD has to be at fault.

Even If some internal documents were leaked proving there was no foul play, would you change your mind? If you already believe It's AMD's fault without any hard proof, then I have to wonder about that.

I personally can't say for sure that there is no such deal, but It's unlikely.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This whole thread is worthless,

It's manufactured outrage. This hate machine has worked for over 20 years now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Homie pitched a fit like a petulant child that can't play with their favorite toy. Wait...they modded it in? Nevermind. roflcopterdown.

 

[H433x0n]

This whole thread is worthless, but user like you who own Nvidia GPU but don't have DLSS in games they play just had to blame It on someone(something).

If this was just a one-off incident, I wouldn't be saying anything. There hasn’t been an AMD sponsored game that has had DLSS support outside of PlayStation exclusive titles. There's a clear pattern that seems statistically relevant.

Even If some internal documents were leaked proving there was no foul play, would you change your mind? If you already believe It's AMD's fault without any hard proof, then I have to wonder about that.

100% I would. I don't even need leaked documents. If going forward something like 2/3 of AMD sponsored games had DLSS - I would change my mind. I don't have a vendetta against AMD other than the fact that I dread announcements that they've sponsored a game but even that isn't a big concern for me now.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

If this was just a one-off incident, I wouldn't be saying anything. There hasn’t been an AMD sponsored game that has had DLSS support outside of PS5 exclusive titles. There's a clear pattern that seems statistically relevant.


100% I would. I don't even need leaked documents. If going forward something like 2/3 of AMD sponsored games had DLSS - I would change my mind. I don't have a vendetta against AMD other than the fact that I dread announcements that they've sponsored a game but even that isn't a big concern for me now.

Please explain to me why It's necessary for a game to support more than one upscaling technology when the one they use supports all brands?
You basically expect games to have DLSS, because It's superior, but do you really think developers care about which one is better? What they care about is which will help them sell more copies.