Discussion [WCCFTech] What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles?

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Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
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The Radeon employee is employing misdirection to dodge the question. The question wasn't whether once you start with FSR integration then does AMD prevent integration of XeSS/DLSS. The code doesn't work like that.

The question was, why AMD sponsored titles tend to lack DLSS, even in titles where it should be trivial to add it. For example Unreal Engine titles.

Do you really think it's as simple as clicking a checkbox and poof, it produces great DLSS? That's like thinking if you change the optimization level on a C compiler it magically turns crap code into something great. I somehow doubt it is as easy to produce anything worthwhile as easy as you claim it is.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Do you really think it's as simple as clicking a checkbox and poof, it produces great DLSS? That's like thinking if you change the optimization level on a C compiler it magically turns crap code into something great. I somehow doubt it is as easy to produce anything worthwhile as easy as you claim it is.
OMG you can't use YouTube, can you?
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,814
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And you're being so partisan that you will still refuse to believe facts even when they are right in front of you.

Well you are the one who called me an old geezer spouting AMD talking points, so I think I am done with you. If I told you what I really thought, I would most certainly get in trouble. Nice ad homenim BTW. As much as I would love to be younger again, age has brought me wisdom.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Cyberpunk uses Streamline to add XeSS.
That's better than nothing I guess, as Cyberpunk is a test vehicle for Nvidia R&D at the moment. If they added XeSS through Streamline then the plugin work exists, so I hope it becomes publicly available. Both Streamline and XeSS github projects have open issues asking for integration info, with no answer available from either party.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Not only that, FSR works with older non RTX cards as well,
So the TAM developers aiming is PS5/XBOX, PC and older non RTX card userbase , only FSR can work in all that including RTX cards.
So when you can use FSR for all the TAM, why even bother to use DLSS and spend more time and resources ??
Nearly 40% of all users on Steam have an RTX card.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
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One reason I suspect devs go for DLSS is because Nvidia have an amazing QA testing department for games. While it obviously only tests Nvidia gpus it will find a lot of bugs, and the DLSS testing will probably find a lot of the same bugs that appear in FSR too.

You want that free testing if you can get it, and I am sure you'll have to include Nvidia specific features to get it. It's another carrot for devs to support Nvidia specific stuff.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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No, but I really don't understand why AMD spends all their guerilla marketing on reddit folks when AT forums have old geezers like you to do their bidding far more vociferously.

Uh, do you listen to yourself? Why would they waste their money when apparently everyone here who doesn't agree with you is willing to do AMD's bidding for free?

But yes, I'm sure AMD has just forced all these poor devs to simply not check a box, as you put it. That's the only possible explanation for the dozens (oh..., not even handful?) of games that implemented FSR but not also DLSS. No other possible explanation for this, whatsoever. None at all. Just simply cannot be anything but the truly dastardly Lisa Su, I bet she's twirling her mustache right now!

Its not like we haven't seen a rash of problematic PC game performance issues. Its interesting that you're in here acting like this can only be explained by seemingly some heinous anti-competitive behavior by AMD, but massive performance drop when you have 8GB or less of VRAM (which I'm guessing is larger than 40% of the market), not a peep from you whatsoever? Guess that's totally fine with you? Welp, guess that means there can be only one explanation. Jensen personally prevented you from clicking that thread box!

Read what I wrote one more time, slowly. I clearly mentioned performance. Callisto Protocol, Forspoken, Jedi Survivor, TLOU Part I. All AMD sponsored, all plagued with performance issues.

Yeah, because we haven't seen performance issues on any other games.

So for evidence we have a list of 21 AAA games:
8 are Nvida bundled and 13 are AMD bundled.

Of the 8 Nvidia bundled games, 8 were released with dlss support and 5 with fsr support, an additional 2 had fsr added 3-6mo after release.

Of the 13 AMD bundles 9 were released with fsr support and 3 with dlss support, an additional 2 had fsr support added 2-3 months post release.

It is clearly possible to be AMD bundled and release with dlss support, without at least some additional evidence how does one come up with AMD is paying people to block features?

That whole article is one speculation after another about AMD/Nvidia relations with developers without even attempting to contact a developer to hear from them.

If I look at and consider just the chart as my source of evidence my conclusions would be that AMD is putting in a superior effort in working with developers. They have more of the bundle partnerships as well working with developers well past release dates to improve them.

Its nice to see that this forum is every bit as much of a clownshow as its ever been, what with people like the OP around to keep it that way.

I think articles like this has been WCCFTech's bread and butter for like decades now? I remember people pointing out this type of behavior years and years back. I'm honestly baffled how this nonsense spread to so many other outlets so quickly, since I don't recall anyone treating WCCFTech as legitimate enough to run with their claims, let alone when its so lacking of anything tangible to actually go with as this article was. I don't think it can be explained by the outrage cycle, as generally there needs to be something tangible there to support it blowing up like this. This sure comes off orchestrated. Guess we'll see, but I know Linus has been trashing Nvidia quite a lot, and have a hunch this is an attempt at damage control/reframing the narrative (something that sure seems to happen a lot when there's criticism of Nvidia...).
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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There is some useful info here but I don't think you're seeing it.
AMD stans here cannot see that with AMD sponsorships, DLSS is locked out for 40% of the userbase in games where it should be trivial to implement.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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AMD sponsorships
AMD is not the problem. Developers are choosing to be sponsored. Nvidia could do the same if their marketshare suddenly starts to drop, to maintain their competitive edge. The way they see it, developers choosing not to implement DLSS are losers and they don't care. Their cavalier attitude towards this issue is causing the loss of DLSS as an option in some games to their customer base, not anything done by AMD.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
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But yes, I'm sure AMD has just forced all these poor devs to simply not check a box, as you put it. That's the only possible explanation for the dozens (oh..., not even handful?) of games that implemented FSR but not also DLSS.
You're missing the part where the headline says "AMD sponsored titles".
Yeah, because we haven't seen performance issues on any other games.
Peak whataboutism right here.
Its interesting that you're in here acting like this can only be explained by seemingly some heinous anti-competitive behavior by AMD, but massive performance drop when you have 8GB or less of VRAM (which I'm guessing is larger than 40% of the market), not a peep from you whatsoever?
NVIDIA is stingy with VRAM, that is for sure, but that doesn't mean that those with 8GB cards have a fundamental right to expect flawless performance when every setting is cranked up to ultra. Many of the examples that were used by the likes of you, here and elsewhere, turned out to be badly optimized titles which the developers fixed to a great extent in subsequent patches.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
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AMD is not the problem. Developers are choosing to be sponsored. Nvidia could do the same if their marketshare suddenly starts to drop, to maintain their competitive edge. The way they see it, developers choosing not to implement DLSS are losers and they don't care. Their cavalier attitude towards this issue is causing the loss of DLSS as an option in some games to their customer base, not anything done by AMD.
Except, that literally isn't the case when it comes to Boundary.
 
Reactions: Heartbreaker
Jul 27, 2020
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Except, that literally isn't the case when it comes to Boundary.
No one forced them to drop DLSS. They could have chosen not to implement FSR2 since AMD's marketshare is pathetic. But they went with FSR2 for broader compatibility. They also cited DLSS performance issues, for which Nvidia likely declined to help them so they had to drop DLSS.

Nvidia developer relations personnel need only call the Boundary developers if they are interested in having DLSS in that game.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Would be funny if everyone is blaming AMD and it's actually NV that refuses to assist devs who are sponsored by AMD.

NV might not want to have their DLSS brand diluted with a big AMD splash screen at the start of the game. I can imagine people dumb enough to get mad "at DLSS" for not working with their old card or with their AMD card. Or even people that think DLSS is an AMD tech that works on their NV GPUs or something.

Anyhow, we don't know and likely never will.
 
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uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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And you're being so partisan that you will still refuse to believe facts even when they are right in front of you.
It is a FACT that AMD sponsored titles block DLSS support (except when they don't, but those don't count because I have a theory and refuse to accept any cases that prove it isn't true).

I'm seeing the exact same raw data as you, and seeing that while there's certainly a trend that AMD sponsored titles don't support DLSS, it's clearly not always the case.

Between DLSS and FSR, from a business perspective it makes more sense to support just FSR than it does just DLSS, just due to platform support. If you have a limited number of engineer hours you can allocate on technical features, and you get sponsored to implement FSR into your game title, surely you can imagine there being higher management deciding that it's not worth the extra time to implement DLSS on top. Half of the AMD sponsored games in the last year have clearly been ones that were rushed out the door a bit too hilariously too. It seems rather obvious that such titles would be more prone to this situation.

And before you say "but implementing both is easy, it can be as simple as flicking a switch", that can be true for implementation, but not for validation. Testing to ensure the feature works as intended is something that is time intensive, and we can see instances where it makes a difference. I forget which title it was - I believe it was Redfall? - but recently we saw something to this degree when that title had lighting issues that were only present with the DLSS implementation - not with native nor with FSR2. And before you ask: no this was not an AMD sponsored title.

I think it's far too early to claim that there is clear undeniable proof towards the fact that AMD are locking out the implementation of DLSS.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
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Correlation does not imply causation. I think a lot of people are forgetting that.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
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You'all think AMD runs a charity for gamers...
No, I definitely don't think that. I think that people like to jump to conclusions by taking speculation and correlation as facts and causation, respectively.

If we cannot agree on what's a fact vs. what's speculation, then we'll never agree on anything. Biases and preconceptions will prevail.

It's why I despise WCCFTech and their article. All it did was just throw out a bunch of loaded questions and speculations without really providing an answer or try to get to the bottom of the issue. It was written as if to simply stoke a fire, because that kind of rhetoric gets people riled up, as evidenced by even this thread.
 
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