Discussion [WCCFTech] What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles?

[PJVol]

Comes off as strikingly arrogant, implying that you should not even bother with APIs, whether open source or not, that plug in to proprietary technologies, because FSR is automatically the best because it's supported on consoles.

Idk, for me he was pretty clear about why AMD not gonna support this API. This may even be purely pragmatic competition reasons, as opposed to NVIDIA's solely altruistic intentions to make life easier for developers.

 

[Panino Manino]

That is because DLSS released much before FSR.

Counting only games released after FSR2, there various games with only DLSS2.

 

[Thunder 57]

So much faux outrage that this thread is already two pages. As if Nvidia sponsered titles wouldn't do the same thing? Nvidia sure did us a solid with gsync by locking out the competition. So good a job that it is dead and Freesync is the standard now. I hope the same thing happens once an open standard upscaler competes quality wise with DLSS.

I knew a thread started today with this title and two pages long already was going to be good. I should've made some popcorn.

 

[PJVol]

As if Nvidia sponsered titles wouldn't do the same thing?

Especially if claims of doing the same thing based on statements like "come on, isn't it obvious, lynch him!"

 

[Mopetar]

Both companies have a history a sponsoring titles to optimize for their cards or implement their features. I don't really get the outrage. This is just the latest iteration of something we've seen for decades.

Frankly, if I were a dev I wouldn't implement DLSS unless NVidia paid me. I see no reason to help anyone entrench their own proprietary technology. Want me to add it? Then pay me.

It's just G-Sync all over again. There's nothing preventing NVidia from just participating in some open standard and making sure their own implementation is better performing than anyone else's.

Any developer doing it for free is cutting their own throat. Even those doing it for pay are just slitting their own wrists in the long run. When NVidia doesn't have to pay anyone to do it they won't, and they'll try to make you pay for privilege instead.

 

[Saylick]

I think the outrage is stemming from a number of factors:
1) Statistically speaking, most PC gamers have an Nvidia GPU, and a portion of those are owners of RTX GPUs that can utilize DLSS, likely enthusiasts who have the financial means to buy newer, higher-end RTX GPUs.
2) DLSS does a better job than FSR at upscaling. Sure, some implementations of FSR can match DLSS, but it is definitely in the minority.
3) The spotlight on AAA PC titles being an unmitigated unoptimized mess blew up this year, so people naturally desire good methods to claw back performance as much as possible.

So, when you combine those three reasons, you get the following train of thought:
1) Dang. There's a bunch of AAA titles I want to play, but they are unoptimized as heck. I want higher frame rates without sacrificing visual quality.
2) DLSS lets me have higher frame rates without sacrificing visual quality.
3) I own an Nvidia RTX GPU. Therefore, my GPU supports DLSS.
4) Wait, this AAA title doesn't have DLSS?? How can I enjoy this game I paid $70 on then?!?
5) Oh, AMD was the one who sponsored this game, hence why it doesn't have DLSS. Screw AMD.

So people put the blame on AMD, rather than the root cause of the issue, which is unoptimized games. As many people have mentioned, game sponsorship has been around for ages; it's nothing new. Why make that the talking point now?

 

[uzzi38]

I heckin love when baseless speculation is treated as fact the tech press.

Because that's ultimately what all of this comes down to.

 

[PJVol]

Exactly this.

 

[menhera]

If you're so upset about it, why don't you go ask Nvidia to open it? If it were an open source technology, it would've been more widely used, don't you think?

 

[Heartbreaker]

I heckin love when baseless speculation is treated as fact the tech press.

What's baseless about it? It is almost certainly AMD paying to exclude competitors tech.

 

[maddie]

What's baseless about it? It is almost certainly AMD paying to exclude competitors tech.

An almost certain fact?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think the outrage is stemming from a number of factors:
1) Statistically speaking, most PC gamers have an Nvidia GPU, so the install base of people who can leverage DLSS is going to be pretty big.

Imma stop you right there. Nvidia does not equal DLSS. Only RTX does DLSS, and fake frames are reserved for the overpriced current generation alone. I'd wager there are as many or more Nvidia owners, that have to rely on FSR because Nvidia doesn't support their card. If it wasn't for AMD all those owners would be SOOL.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

An almost certain fact?

60% of the time, it works a 100% of the time.

 

[VirtualLarry]

60% of the time, it works a 100% of the time.

Just like lock-picking in Skyrim?

 

[Saylick]

Imma stop you right there. Nvidia does not equal DLSS. Only RTX does DLSS, and fake frames are reserved for the overpriced current generation alone. I'd wager there are as many or more Nvidia owners, that have to rely on FSR because Nvidia doesn't support their card. If it wasn't for AMD all those owners would be SOOL.

Good point. You are correct. I should revise my post to clarify that it refers to those who have RTX GPUs.

 

[Saylick]

Take with a grain of salt:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671433185060610049

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Dunno why everyone is white knighting AMD here. Yeah it's trashy journalism but their individual points aren't necessarily wrong. They may be extrapolating quite a bit but the data supports the core argument.

And you know what? Good for AMD. I always applaud when they act like a big boy business and actually promote their own stuff.

I don't agree with it, but I mean if I were AMD and I was giving a company a bunch of money to cobrand I wouldn't want my competitor's stuff in there making me look bad either.

 

[insertcarehere]

Imma stop you right there. Nvidia does not equal DLSS. Only RTX does DLSS, and fake frames are reserved for the overpriced current generation alone. I'd wager there are as many or more Nvidia owners, that have to rely on FSR because Nvidia doesn't support their card. If it wasn't for AMD all those owners would be SOOL.

That's funny, I don't recall FSR being supported on any Nvidia card older than Pascal and RTX cards launched with Turing right after. So the list of Nvidia owners that benefit from FSR but not DLSS is basically Pascal and the GTX Turing models. But sure, let's pretend that FSR supports "all" GPUs and that the majority of Nvidia owners should thank AMD for gifting them FSR...

 

[Shmee]

That's funny, I don't recall FSR being supported on any Nvidia card older than Pascal and RTX cards launched with Turing right after. So the list of Nvidia owners that benefit from FSR but not DLSS is basically Pascal and the GTX Turing models. But sure, let's pretend that FSR supports "all" GPUs and that the majority of Nvidia owners should thank AMD for gifting them FSR...

Not all cards, but many. And more options are better, so I am not sure what you are getting at.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So the list of Nvidia owners that benefit from FSR but not DLSS is basically Pascal and the GTX Turing models. But sure, let's pretend that FSR supports "all" GPUs and that the majority of Nvidia owners should thank AMD for gifting them FSR...

Well, the GTX 1650 and GTX 1660-family are among the most popular cards on the SHS. To say nothing about the GTX 1060 (that's covered by FSR too, right?)

 

[Rebel_L]

So for evidence we have a list of 21 AAA games:
8 are Nvida bundled and 13 are AMD bundled.

Of the 8 Nvidia bundled games, 8 were released with dlss support and 5 with fsr support, an additional 2 had fsr added 3-6mo after release.

Of the 13 AMD bundles 9 were released with fsr support and 3 with dlss support, an additional 2 had fsr support added 2-3 months post release.

It is clearly possible to be AMD bundled and release with dlss support, without at least some additional evidence how does one come up with AMD is paying people to block features?

That whole article is one speculation after another about AMD/Nvidia relations with developers without even attempting to contact a developer to hear from them.

If I look at and consider just the chart as my source of evidence my conclusions would be that AMD is putting in a superior effort in working with developers. They have more of the bundle partnerships as well working with developers well past release dates to improve them.

 

[uzzi38]

@Saylick I know who wrote that message Jiray posted and can confirm it is a Radeon enployee.

 

[tamz_msc]

Food for thought, why isn't Intel supporting Streamline? Nvidia featured them in their communication materials, yet there are no signs of Intel plugins for Streamline. In fact, I would be curious to know how many games have included Streamline as their solution to add DLSS / DLAA.

View attachment 82061

"Intel believes strongly in the power of open interfaces," said Andre Bremer, VP of AXG and director of game engineering at Intel. "We are excited to support Streamline, an open, cross-IHV framework for new graphics effects. This will simplify game developers’ integration efforts and accelerate the adoption of new technology."

Apparently they were so excited that they forgot it existed.

Cyberpunk uses Streamline to add XeSS.

 

[tamz_msc]

LOL, the 2 titles at this midway point of 2023 vying for the worst game of the year award are Redfall and Gollum.

Read what I wrote one more time, slowly. I clearly mentioned performance. Callisto Protocol, Forspoken, Jedi Survivor, TLOU Part I. All AMD sponsored, all plagued with performance issues.

 

[tamz_msc]

@Saylick I know who wrote that message Jiray posted and can confirm it is a Radeon enployee.

The Radeon employee is employing misdirection to dodge the question. The question wasn't whether once you start with FSR integration then does AMD prevent integration of XeSS/DLSS. The code doesn't work like that.

The question was, why AMD sponsored titles tend to lack DLSS, even in titles where it should be trivial to add it. For example Unreal Engine titles.