Discussion [WCCFTech] What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles?

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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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From what I can find, the only console that supports Vulkan is the Switch.

Nintendo is like the king of optimization, but with a lot of handhelds like steamdeck that are coming out now mostly based on the AMD APU, i would see Vulkan growing even more popular as time goes on as well as FSR on top.
 

kondziowy

Senior member
Feb 19, 2016
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Did you just say proprietary ray tracing acceleration?!
TextureWorks™ - texture upscaling only for 6GB rtx5000 (and up) owners . And NpcWorks™ - AI generated in-game characters exclusive to RTX owners. Imagine even more crowded towns, like in AC Unity but with characters that you can have random conversation with.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Nintendo is like the king of optimization, but with a lot of handhelds like steamdeck that are coming out now mostly based on the AMD APU, i would see Vulkan growing even more popular as time goes on as well as FSR on top.

Witch Microsoft buying up a large part of the AAA game industry, I could see it going more DirectX...
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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TextureWorks™ - texture upscaling only for 6GB rtx5000 (and up) owners . And NpcWorks™ - AI generated in-game characters exclusive to RTX owners. Imagine even more crowded towns, like in AC Unity but with characters that you can have random conversation with.

There is a new city builder game due soon that had a demo recently, called New Cycle with an experimental AI trader. It was weird having conversations with him when he would come around asking to trade items or needed help (aka donated tools/goods). The Nvidia version will be Leather Jacketman the Spatula Salesman offering the best ray traced goods in all the realm.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Witch Microsoft buying up a large part of the AAA game industry, I could see it going more DirectX...

Probably not much more than before. I guess those companies will quit releasing on Sony consoles so they could go strictly DX12. But I don't think any of those companies are doing serious Vulkan development anyways. The only company Microsoft bought that was doing it previously was id and they've owned them for a while now. No idea if they're mandating that they switch to DirectX or not.

If mobile gaming (as in phones) starts to become a bigger platform that'll do more to drive Vulkan development than anything else. The other big driver might be Valve with Steamdeck. They're big into Vulkan and you might see more developers use it if Steamdeck becomes a large enough platform.
 

GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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Kaluan

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Jan 4, 2022
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https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/25/22372077/amd-starfield-dlss-fsr-exclusive-frank-azor

Finally some kind of response from AMD, for whatever it’s worth.

-That wasn't so hard, was it Frank? That exact response, but much earlier into this storm in a teacup, would have put this to bed pretty fast.

I can understand AMD not wanting to direct all the hate straight at Bethesda and turning AMD partnerships into a headache for Dev's they partner with though.
Also the new Avatar game, a AMD sponsored title, advertises FSR (2 tho, FSR3 TBD) in it's PC features trailer, despite also launching with DLSS support as well.

I think some studios, partnered up with the GPU vendors or not, just don't bother with some of these features, particularly nVidia's upscaling stuff, which as we know remains harder to implement than AMD's (effort = time = extra spending... which game studio's just don't like). Funny how features like these have slowly become near must-haves for most games nowadays to the point people are itching for conspiracy theories if they don't.

I'm starting to think this whole thing was a one big nothingburger (as I suspected), one which AMD handled poorly. They're not very good cooks are they lol
 

exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
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Also the new Avatar game, a AMD sponsored title, advertises FSR (2 tho, FSR3 TBD) in it's PC features trailer, despite also launching with DLSS support as well.

I think some studios, partnered up with the GPU vendors or not, just don't bother with some of these features, particularly nVidia's upscaling stuff, which as we know remains harder to implement than AMD's (effort = time = extra spending... which game studio's just don't like). Funny how features like these have slowly become near must-haves for most games nowadays to the point people are itching for conspiracy theories if they don't.

I'm starting to think this whole thing was a one big nothingburger (as I suspected), one which AMD handled poorly. They're not very good cooks are they lol
Yeah, these studios make developers crunch and crunch and crunch and they barely release half baked games anyway, a lot of the time. Implementing and validating multiple upscalers isn’t their priority when FSR can run on anything.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
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Just sad that if the whole time AMD wasn't locking out DLSS they could have just said it, but the cynic in me thinks they had perhaps a timed exclusive as the contract, where FSR is prioritized over DLSS for a set period. But this is all conjecture, just like how it was conjecture that AMD was blocking DLSS.
 

H433x0n

Golden Member
Mar 15, 2023
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The comments from Frank Azor are meaningless if nothing changes. If all upcoming AMD sponsored games come exclusively with FSR - his words are just words.
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
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-That wasn't so hard, was it Frank? That exact response, but much earlier into this storm in a teacup, would have put this to bed pretty fast.

I can understand AMD not wanting to direct all the hate straight at Bethesda and turning AMD partnerships into a headache for Dev's they partner with though.
My guess is that, given the long lead time between the backlash and this statement (c. 5 weeks), that the agreement (c. mid July) did have some type of exclusivity clause, which was revised when AMD realized that this was a bad look for them and Bethesda to have these clauses, which would explain their evasiveness around these questions when put forward originally..
 
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GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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My guess is that, given the long lead time between the backlash and this statement (c. 5 weeks), that the agreement (c. mid July) did have some type of exclusivity clause, which was revised when AMD realized that this was a bad look for them and Bethesda to have these clauses, which would explain their evasiveness around these questions when put forward originally..

-Eh, that seems more complex an explanation than the situation requires.

Bethsoft and AMD likely didn't expect this sort of backlash and there was no answer that was going to get the rabid hordes to calm down.

AMD could have provided this response back when, but then all the hate mail goes the Bethsoft and that's not a good look for AMD either. Better for AMD to stay quiet and act as the lightning rod.

Once things have blown over a little-bit, hide the shifting blame to Bethsoft in a small corner or a larger release where it will kinda get lost and then move on.

If you see the comment sections for FSR 3 on tech sites, still have plenty of people blaming AMD for "locking out" DLSS and fans supporting them with the standard "NV blocks DLSS for most gamers it's OK, AMD blocks DLSS for some gamers and they're Satan" arguments.
 
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Or maybe they were waiting to unveil their FSR3 tech in full first. Now that they are confident that they have at least a fighting chance against DLSS3 in image/video quality shootouts, they are now more open to let developers support DLSS.
 

H433x0n

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Mar 15, 2023
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And this response, ladies and gentlemen, is why Frank Azor never bothered speaking in the first place. People gonna complain no matter what he says.
Yeah, it was all a conspiracy. AMD is benevolent and great… who am I to question that?
 

GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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Or maybe they were waiting to unveil their FSR3 tech in full first. Now that they are confident that they have at least a fighting chance against DLSS3 in image/video quality shootouts, they are now more open to let developers support DLSS.

-Eh, Starfield doesn't have FSR 3 and apparently there are no plans to add FSR 3 given the partner slide or upcoming games slide. I could see this argument work if Starfield was launching with FSR 3 or getting it soon but it's not.

I think Devs get money from AMD to put in FSR, don't get money from NV to add DLSS (or can't get money due to the licensing agreement), and so they don't. That simple.

When others are being paid to do something, why would you do it for free?
 

H433x0n

Golden Member
Mar 15, 2023
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-Eh, Starfield doesn't have FSR 3 and apparently there are no plans to add FSR 3 given the partner slide or upcoming games slide. I could see this argument work if Starfield was launching with FSR 3 or getting it soon but it's not.

I think Devs get money from AMD to put in FSR, don't get money from NV to add DLSS (or can't get money due to the licensing agreement), and so they don't. That simple.

When others are being paid to do something, why would you do it for free?
There are employees at Nvidia who would be made available to port DLSS to Starfield. Same goes for RE4, Jedi Survivor & Callisto Protocol.

They've already got the driver optimizations done for Starfield in WHQL 537.13, so clearly they have access to the game. They would absolutely add support for DLSS if given the opportunity.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,802
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Yeah, it was all a conspiracy. AMD is benevolent and great… who am I to question that?
And THIS response, is why engaging with you is less-than-fruitful. Nobody ever said that "AMD is benevolent and great". All they did is come out and say that Bethsoft can use DLSS if they want to. That's it. Case closed, AMD isn't prohibiting it. And Bethsoft STILL isn't talking.

Another mountain made out of a molehill.

Turns out that one AMD guy on Twitter/X was telling the truth.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,448
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And THIS response, is why engaging with you is less-than-fruitful. Nobody ever said that "AMD is benevolent and great". All they did is come out and say that Bethsoft can use DLSS if they want to. That's it. Case closed, AMD isn't prohibiting it. And Bethsoft STILL isn't talking.

Another mountain made out of a molehill.

Turns out that one AMD guy on Twitter/X was telling the truth.
Some people just have such a deep-rooted hate of AMD, they just cannot let go of their conspiracy theories, even once the truth comes to light. They are anti-truth. They are Evil.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,802
11,157
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Some people just have such a deep-rooted hate of AMD, they just cannot let go of their conspiracy theories, even once the truth comes to light. They are anti-truth. They are Evil.
Some people are just delusional, which isn't necessarily evil. Also @GodisanAtheist is probably right in that NV probably takes their partnership money and goes home as soon as they see a developer engage with AMD. Devs have long-since learned to take money where they can get it to offset development costs, so in case the game is a dud, it won't hurt them as much. If your dev house is "for sale" then of course you aren't going to implement a feature like DLSS until NV pays you to do so.
 

H433x0n

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Mar 15, 2023
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Some people just have such a deep-rooted hate of AMD, they just cannot let go of their conspiracy theories, even once the truth comes to light. They are anti-truth. They are Evil.
That’s quite a leap. Go through my post history, show me a single post where I’m disparaging of AMD.

It is quite obvious there’s incentives to not adopt DLSS when AMD comes on as a sponsor. I’ll happily change my tune if DLSS is available on Starfield or any other upcoming games that AMD sponsors. If you own an Nvidia GPU that comment from Frank Azor is cold comfort when Starfield still is exclusive to FSR and I’m now going to play 4 major titles this year without DLSS support (I didn’t have it available on RE4, Callisto Protocol, Jedi Survivor and now Starfield).

For the 40-50% of the market that own an RTX GPU, they’re still getting shafted.
 
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H433x0n

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Mar 15, 2023
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Some people are just delusional, which isn't necessarily evil. Also @GodisanAtheist is probably right in that NV probably takes their partnership money and goes home as soon as they see a developer engage with AMD. Devs have long-since learned to take money where they can get it to offset development costs, so in case the game is a dud, it won't hurt them as much. If your dev house is "for sale" then of course you aren't going to implement a feature like DLSS until NV pays you to do so.
It’s not delusional nor do I dislike AMD. Investing in AMD was a huge factor in me being able to buy my first home. I’ve also owned 2 Ryzen processors in the past.

It’s frustrating since this argument is now entirely pointless. There’s enough political cover for everybody to point at this one statement and dismiss this entire situation. We’ll have to revisit this topic at a later date when Nvidia sponsored titles no longer include FSR and come with default path tracing which I’m sure is inevitable now.
 
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GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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That’s quite a leap. Go through my post history, show me a single post where I’m disparaging of AMD.

It is quite obvious there’s incentives to not adopt DLSS when AMD comes on as a sponsor. I’ll happily change my tune if DLSS is available on Starfield or any other upcoming games that AMD sponsors. If you own an Nvidia GPU that comment from Frank Azor is cold comfort when Starfield still is exclusive to FSR and I’m now going to play 4 major titles this year without DLSS support (I didn’t have it available on RE4, Callisto Protocol, Jedi Survivor and now Starfield).

For the 40-50% of the market that own an RTX GPU, they’re still getting shafted.

-Maybe you should buy an AMD GPU


They seem to be willing to play hardball while NV with its 50 Quintilluion Dollar of market cap and 90% market share in the gaming space somehow gets played.

Honestly this isn't an AMD bad story its a "How the ever loving **** did NV get played on the biggest titles of the year?"

I started this post as a joke and actually kinda got angry while typing. NV has a 1.46 TRILLION dollar market cap, AMD is 165 Billion, and they's not exclusively GPUs, its mostly CPUs. Anyone complaining here on NV's side should be embarrased that really anything in the dGPU space is AMD sponsored at all. How does NV even let that happen? Do they just take their users for granted? NV could have outbid AMD in sponsoring Starfield with the change in Jensen's couch but they chose not to. NV people should be asking... why not?
 
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