We all know Newt is unelectable...

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Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
0
I think she is a very bright woman and have great respect for her, but nothing I have ever seen would suggest that she would want the spotlight that would come with running for President. She seems like a very private person, which is one of the reasons she is always rumored to be a lesbian (I have no earthly idea if that is the case or not, nor would it have any effect on my vote if she were).

Regardless of weather one might agree with her politics or not, the woman has a very fascinating life story. Shes incredibly bright, no doubt about it! I also read about the "lesbian rumors" and it wouldnt bother me or affect my vote in the least.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I'm horrible at making predictions about electoral results. E.g., I've already posted that Newt was 'toast' and expected him to drop out.

But here he is months later leading, at least for the moment.

I think it far too early to confidently predict a win/loss for some of these candidates. Others, like Santorum and Huntsmen can be disregarded. But no voting has even taken place yet and much more campaigning etc is yet to occur.

More importantly, we're still over a year away from the general election. Who knows what will happen in the meantime that could significantly change the situation? What if the economy improved? What if a 3rd party candidate entered the race? Too many unknowns IMO.

Fern

This is asked of Ron Paul every time he is interviewed practically. All part of the MSM agenda to get him to admit he's expecting to lose the primary.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This is asked of Ron Paul every time he is interviewed practically. All part of the MSM agenda to get him to admit he's expecting to lose the primary.
That's the same MSM that gives him only a few seconds per debate - but they'd LOVE to see him run as a third party.

Hopefully FoxNews will give him the time and respect his polling numbers deserve.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Every single country on earth without exception uses government power and regulations to force the private sector to act according to their will.
It's true that a certain amount of socialism is required for civilization, but it's a matter of degree. It's also a matter of respect for private property - Obama has made it very clear that he considers private property his to confiscate via the armed might of government as long as he thinks the owners "don't need it" or "it's a good idea". Thus I know without doubt that he is far more socialist than am I, even though I don't really have a good feel of just how socialist he is at heart or would be in a second term.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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This is asked of Ron Paul every time he is interviewed practically. All part of the MSM agenda to get him to admit he's expecting to lose the primary.

Do you seriously believe he ISN'T expecting to lose the primary? I don't mean him any disrespect, but I regard it as sheer fantasy to think he could possibly seriously compete for the nomination unless Romney AND Gingrich each withdraw from the race or suffer a huge, public catastrophe of some kind.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
how exactly is Obama a Communist? I have heard that and read that from lots of folks, but I haven't quite put it together. Let me say first that I'm not a political science major or anything, so I'm just look for the broad strokes. Obama = Communist How?

Well, he's not actually. Not even close. The problem lies with the GOP. In the last 15 years or so the GOP has been running full speed to the right. Some of the policies that Obama has had that the current GOP calls communist were actually built on policies the Republicans had 15 years ago. Basically it's become that the GOP has gone so far to the right that only a few places in history have been further right (Axis powers in WW2 and much of the current Middle East are about it). And the problem is that instead of realizing the deep end that the GOP is going off, it's increasing the speed.

The problem is that socialist and communist are good buzz words for the stupid. It sounds scary. And when you look at the reverse, the main group that was known for being too far right was the Nazis. And it's become cliche to call someone a Nazi, so the effect isn't there and the buzz word isn't used. The truth is that Obama's language falls just left of center and his policies since being president have fallen mostly around center right. However the current GOP is ... whatever is to the right of batshit insane far right.

It's a good rule of thumb that anyone in P&N who calls Obama a communist or a socialist simply doesn't know what those words mean and use it because they have no real policy issues with him, they just dislike that he's a Democrat (and I'm sure a couple are just racist, but they're a minority).
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
It's not about saving the game.

Ron Paul is there at the debate owning all of the other candidates, and then after the debate is over main stream media focuses on this Romney vs Gingrich story that they made up on their own to falsely influence the political process.

The only logical conclusion I can come up with is that they don't want Ron Paul to get the nomination. They'd rather pretend a cheating, lying, slimey guy like newt is in the lead.

Look at the end of the debate. The other candidates were giving Ron Paul respect for schooling them. He won yet another debate... and then the media pretends he didn't.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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I must admit that as a fairly active participant in the political process, I do not understand, one iota, the perception that Ron Paul would be competitive in the nomination process if the media weren't keeping him down.

I have no doubt that Dr. Paul, more than any of the other candidates, has the courage of his convictions and sincerely believes what he's saying. I also happen to agree with him about a fair amount of it. That being said, his views on foreign policy and the use of military power, which is perhaps a President's most important duty, are wildly extreme and only a small percentage of the population is prepared to tolerate them, much less embrace them. In addition, he lacks any warmth or charisma as a candidate relative to any major-party candidate since Nixon. He makes John Kerry look loveable.

I have no problem with people liking Ron Paul, but I do take issue with their delusions of grandeur regarding his suitability as a candidate and/or President.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Do you seriously believe he ISN'T expecting to lose the primary? I don't mean him any disrespect, but I regard it as sheer fantasy to think he could possibly seriously compete for the nomination unless Romney AND Gingrich each withdraw from the race or suffer a huge, public catastrophe of some kind.

Regardless of how he feels, he needs to maintain that he has a chance at winning.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Regardless of how he feels, he needs to maintain that he has a chance at winning.

I agree with you 100% on that, and think it's dicky of reporters to keep trying to get him to say whether he would support Romney or Gingrich if he withdraws. It's disrespectful and he's too smart to actually answer it as asked, because it would be a concession that he won't be nominated.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
They are all the same, politicians beholden only to the special interests which fund their campaigns & make it possible for them to retain power. They don't believe in anything other than keeping the wool pulled over the sheeps eyes.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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Funny, I remember in 1978/1979 when people were saying Ronald Reagan was unelectable. We know the rest of that story.

The differences between that situation and this one are too many to count. Suffice it to say that Reagan had nowhere near the personal and professional baggage that Newt has. Moreover, he was a charismatic figure and liked by those who knew him, as well as the public at large. What's interesting to me about Mr. Gingrich is that despite his long and prominent career in politics, his former colleagues are not only not coming out to support him, they have been remarkably open about stating that they do not believe in him as a leader or as President.

My own sense is that President Obama would beat Gingrich rather easily in a general election, but obviously that all remains to be seen. I wouldn't say Gingrich has no shot, but I would say his odds are materially poorer than Romney's would be.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I feel, unless he has a major gaff, Newton will be the nominee. Fox news is behind him 110%, and they control the conservative TV air-time.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
It's true that a certain amount of socialism is required for civilization, but it's a matter of degree. It's also a matter of respect for private property - Obama has made it very clear that he considers private property his to confiscate via the armed might of government as long as he thinks the owners "don't need it" or "it's a good idea". Thus I know without doubt that he is far more socialist than am I, even though I don't really have a good feel of just how socialist he is at heart or would be in a second term.

Well no that wasn't my point. Obama is a Fascist because he ignores the law and uses executive power to get his way. Just like all the BDS people whined about incessantly, Obama actually does. E.g., the gulf drilling moratorium, the EPA-usurping of congress, the oil pipeline, the GM/Chrysler bailouts, Obamacare's almost dictatorial use of "at the discretion of the secretary of health and human services" e.g. regarding waivers, Fast & Furious, etc, etc, you get the picture.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Well, he's not actually. Not even close. The problem lies with the GOP. In the last 15 years or so the GOP has been running full speed to the right. Some of the policies that Obama has had that the current GOP calls communist were actually built on policies the Republicans had 15 years ago. Basically it's become that the GOP has gone so far to the right that only a few places in history have been further right (Axis powers in WW2 and much of the current Middle East are about it). And the problem is that instead of realizing the deep end that the GOP is going off, it's increasing the speed.

The problem is that socialist and communist are good buzz words for the stupid. It sounds scary. And when you look at the reverse, the main group that was known for being too far right was the Nazis. And it's become cliche to call someone a Nazi, so the effect isn't there and the buzz word isn't used. The truth is that Obama's language falls just left of center and his policies since being president have fallen mostly around center right. However the current GOP is ... whatever is to the right of batshit insane far right.

It's a good rule of thumb that anyone in P&N who calls Obama a communist or a socialist simply doesn't know what those words mean and use it because they have no real policy issues with him, they just dislike that he's a Democrat (and I'm sure a couple are just racist, but they're a minority).
Um, Nazi is a contraction of National Socialist, which is short for National Socialist German Workers Party. The Nazis were NOT on the right - they expounded the same anti-business, anti-capitalism, anti-bourgeois views as did the Communists, but were strongly nationalist rather than internationalist. The Nazis were unarguably less leftist than were the Communists since they settled for government control rather than outright ownership of business; as long as you were of acceptable racial purity (the Nazi government seized lots of businesses of Jews and other persons deemed undesirable) and did as you were told you could retain your company and even turn a profit. But only in comparison with the competing Communist theory could the Nazis be called right of center. Otherwise all the Nazi political positions are very identifiable left wing. After the collapse of the Weimar Republic, there was no energetic right wing movement in Germany. (Of course, at the time the left wing was ascendant everywhere, including in America.)

That said, the Nazi's evil precludes any real, intelligent comparison with any other political movement.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Newt Gingrich hates the Constitution and thinks it should die. Literally.

He wrote a forward to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Creating-New-Civilization-Politics-Third/dp/1570362238

"And urged all americans to read this book"

Quote from the book:

"For this wisdom aboce all, we thank Mr. Jefforson, who helped create the system, that served us so well for so long and that now, must, in its turn, die and be replaced."

This guy is effing scary, he is NOT conservative, he looks up to FDR.

Again, Newt is NOT CONSERVATIVE
 
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yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,408
39
91
I do not agree that Ron Paul is capable of ever getting the nomination, much less winning a general election. His views on foreign policy are simply far outside the mainstream for him to make people feel safe. I have never fully understood the sentiment that the media are the ones keeping him down - he gets more coverage than any other candidate who has consistently polled outside the top three candidates.

Bringing the troops home and stop extending ourselves militarily across the globe IS mainstream. A vast majority of Americans, especially military service personnel supports this.

To the OP, the media has already treat Ron Paul like a ghost. If he wins the primaries with this happening, it shows he can win despite the media treating him like a ghost.
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
I must admit that as a fairly active participant in the political process, I do not understand, one iota, the perception that Ron Paul would be competitive in the nomination process if the media weren't keeping him down.

I have no doubt that Dr. Paul, more than any of the other candidates, has the courage of his convictions and sincerely believes what he's saying. I also happen to agree with him about a fair amount of it. That being said, his views on foreign policy and the use of military power, which is perhaps a President's most important duty, are wildly extreme and only a small percentage of the population is prepared to tolerate them, much less embrace them. In addition, he lacks any warmth or charisma as a candidate relative to any major-party candidate since Nixon. He makes John Kerry look loveable.

I have no problem with people liking Ron Paul, but I do take issue with their delusions of grandeur regarding his suitability as a candidate and/or President.

His lack of "charisma" is actually part of his appeal. People follow his ideas, and ideas have far more force than charisma. People trust him, and believe he believes what he says.

Other more charismatic candidates may ignite passion with their charisma, but it fades, and intelligent people start to question do I like this person because they look good and speak well, or do I truly like their ideas, do I believe they are being generous, or are they trying to sell themselves to me?

Look at their actions, and their records, and weigh that against their words, and then subtract what ends up being bullshit and see what you have left...

Ron Paul is the only one that measures up considerably, and consistently with what he speaks. Whos voting record, and stances match rhetoric.

Also, as another poster pointed out, his views on the military must be popular, since the military gives more money to him than all other candidates and Obama combined.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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Bringing the troops home and stop extending ourselves militarily across the globe IS mainstream. A vast majority of Americans, especially military service personnel supports this.

To the OP, the media has already treat Ron Paul like a ghost. If he wins the primaries with this happening, it shows he can win despite the media treating him like a ghost.

Treating Iran like Canada is not something most of the United States supports.

With respect to this idea that the media is intentionally ignoring Paul (as I said, my feeling is that is categorically false but one of those things that it's hard to prove one way or the other), my question would be, why? Is the idea that he is so radically different that he terrifies the status quo media? That makes no sense to me. Ross Perot got a huge amount of media attention in his day. I don't mean to sound disingenuous - I just think the limitations of Paul's popularity are self-imposed, rather than the result of some kind of media blackout. We are not, after all, hearing much about Santorum, Huntsman or Gary Johnson either.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,818
49,513
136
Um, Nazi is a contraction of National Socialist, which is short for National Socialist German Workers Party. The Nazis were NOT on the right - they expounded the same anti-business, anti-capitalism, anti-bourgeois views as did the Communists, but were strongly nationalist rather than internationalist. The Nazis were unarguably less leftist than were the Communists since they settled for government control rather than outright ownership of business; as long as you were of acceptable racial purity (the Nazi government seized lots of businesses of Jews and other persons deemed undesirable) and did as you were told you could retain your company and even turn a profit. But only in comparison with the competing Communist theory could the Nazis be called right of center. Otherwise all the Nazi political positions are very identifiable left wing. After the collapse of the Weimar Republic, there was no energetic right wing movement in Germany. (Of course, at the time the left wing was ascendant everywhere, including in America.)

That said, the Nazi's evil precludes any real, intelligent comparison with any other political movement.

You are of course welcome to your opinion, but the majority of historians place Nazism as a far right ideology.

Not that it really matters though, as Hitler himself always spoke of how Nazism was a third way, neither left nor right.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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Also, as another poster pointed out, his views on the military must be popular, since the military gives more money to him than all other candidates and Obama combined.

I believe this is something of an exaggeration, but I know he gets a ton of donations from military members, and the dynamic is indeed interesting. Do we know in detail when precisely he beat the President and the other GOP candidates in donations? (That is, I can't imagine that over the entire 2008 campaign season, including the general election, that could possibly be a true fact, but it might have been during the GOP primaries, and it might be for the current round).

I am a veteran myself, serving under Clinton and (mostly) under the latter Bush, and this strong pattern of military donations to Paul strikes me as very surprising. On the one hand, he says he would be more judicious about sending troops into harm's way, but on the other hand, his laissez-faire foreign policy would certainly, over time, lead to the contraction of the military, as occurred after WWI.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
I believe this is something of an exaggeration, but I know he gets a ton of donations from military members, and the dynamic is indeed interesting. Do we know in detail when precisely he beat the President and the other GOP candidates in donations? (That is, I can't imagine that over the entire 2008 campaign season, including the general election, that could possibly be a true fact, but it might have been during the GOP primaries, and it might be for the current round).

I am a veteran myself, serving under Clinton and (mostly) under the latter Bush, and this strong pattern of military donations to Paul strikes me as very surprising. On the one hand, he says he would be more judicious about sending troops into harm's way, but on the other hand, his laissez-faire foreign policy would certainly, over time, lead to the contraction of the military, as occurred after WWI.


From the latest funding quarters, he gets more donations from active duty military than all of the other republican candidates combined. Its a fact.
 
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