We Are In Danger Of Losing the Cars We Love!

[454Casull]

<< Not even mentioning all of the smaller trucks like box trucks, flatbeds, wreckers, etc. They all easily outweigh (by tons) any of the biggest SUV's on the market. And what about regular trucks? They have the same high stance and near the weight of the SUV's, and nobody is complaining about them. >>


They're driven because there's a need. As for SUVs, what exactly are they used for? Hauling people around?

 

[Piano Man]

I'm all for it, but the transition should be slower.

 

[Ornery]

Report says vehicle safety ratings confusing to consumers[/b]
From the Journal Sentinel

• "Many consumers likely believe a 4-star compact car protects them in a crash to a similar degree as a 4-star van or (sports) utility (vehicle), when in fact they are significantly more likely to be injured in a crash when occupying the smaller vehicle," wrote author Patrick Anderson of Anderson Economic Group."

Status of Injury and Crashworthiness Consumer Information
TranSafety, Inc

• "Large, heavy cars generally offer more protection to their occupants, with fatalities in lighter vehicles averaging two to three times the fatalities in heavier vehicles. Because of their additional size, larger vehicles allow more "crush space" to absorb impact."

The Issue: Do real-life safety statistics warrant an insurance discount for larger vehicles?

• "State Farm Insurance, the nation's largest underwriter, will begin offering discounts to drivers of safer automobiles. Critics charge that the plan will "legitimize" larger vehicles that pose a danger to smaller cars. But the new policy actually reflects sound risk management."

When Heavy Meets Light

• "...So the statistics show. In 1996, 41,207 people died in traffic accidents, 35,579 of them within their vehicles. Crashes between LTVs and cars resulted in 5,259 fatalities. Of these, 81 percent, or 4,260 fatalities, occurred in the cars. Clearly, the passengers in the larger vehicles came out ahead. But that doesn?t make the LTVs the villains of the piece. Because it?s not just the mismatch in size that makes cars less safe. Fatal crashes between two cars caused 4,013 deaths, while LTV-LTV crashes resulted in far fewer fatalities: 1,225. Even if we correct for the difference in the numbers of each type of vehicle on the road, it seems obvious that if everyone drove an LTV, far fewer bodies would be hauled off the nation?s highways every year..."

Safety Pointers for Car Shoppers

• "Larger, heavier vehicles generally are crashworthier than smaller, lighter ones. First, larger vehicles typically have longer crush zones, which helps protect the safety cage in one- and two-vehicle accidents. Plus, the extra weight offers additional safety in two-vehicle crashes -- as the heavier vehicle plows into the lighter one, some of its momentum is transferred to the other vehicle."

 

[Blayze]

<< Support the bill! It eliminates those damn SUV's! >>



although this would eliminate some good "sports" cars this is the only good I could see in this bill.

 

[Ramses]

Oh christ, someone should offer most of this country some cheese to go with it's wine.

I've driven one of the most effecient vehicles there has been in mas production, a VW diesel. It does everything an everyday vehicle should, and gets about 42-50mpg on the highway and seems to get more around town. I can drive half way down the east coast on a tank, a 15 gallon tank. And this is a 20 year old motor with 548 THOUSAND! miles on it. Does anyone pay attention to this little achevement? NOOOO!!!! They wine and bitch about CAFE and safety and hybrid cars. There all full of s**t. They arent willing to deal with a little noise and a sparten vehicle to acomplish their goals, they want it all, and will make life a pain in the ass for eveyone in the process.

There have BEEN more effecient cars, two decades ago, it's sitting under the garage right now. I know everyone dosent want a noisy VW pickup, but you can easily make it as nice and quiet and smooth a car as you want.

Older diesels put out a fair bit of crap in the exhaust emmesions wise, but that can be fixed too pretty easily. Hell VW made and sold one called the"Eco-Diesel" in a Jetta a few years ago, didnt sell very well naturally, no one gave a damn.

I love cars, I have several, some are big and loud and fast and get 10mpg, I dont drive them every day but I do drive them, and will continue to do so reguardless of how screwed up the rest of the world manages to get. Day to day it just makes sence to drive a small effecient vehicle for me.
I've done my part and then some to help the enviroment, the day I cant have my old cars I'll eat a .308 round.

:disgust:


edit: and another thing, this motor will with very little modification run off alternate fuels, most notably used cooking oil such as you get from restaraunts. There's PLENTY of spare used cooking oil in the world, think of all the fast food places around, not enough for everyone, but enough for many. As it is now it cost money to have it disposed off and recycled. No one bothers trying to make use of it when it works so well and helps with several other major problems. The world is full of idiots.

 

[Ornery]

"There's PLENTY of spare used cooking oil in the world, think of all the fast food places around..."

So, when you burn that for fuel, does your exhaust smell like McDonald's fries?

I've been kicking around getting some kind of "Scooter" to run short errands. I live adjacent to a mall with about 70 stores, yet I hop in my car to fetch stuff rather than walk. A bicycle might be OK too. A scooter would be perfect, except for one thing... that safety issue. I've got a wife and kids and I've known too many people who were killed on bikes. I doubt a scooter would fair any better. Around here, on a bike, you better have eyes in the back of your head!

 

[Ramses]

<< "There's PLENTY of spare used cooking oil in the world, think of all the fast food places around..."

So, when you burn that for fuel, does your exhaust smell like McDonald's fries?

I've been kicking around getting some kind of "Scooter" to run short errands. I live adjacent to a mall with about 70 stores, yet I hop in my car to fetch stuff rather than walk. A bicycle might be OK too. A scooter would be perfect, except for one thing... that safety issue. I've got a wife and kids and I've known too many people who were killed on bikes. I doubt a scooter would fair any better. Around here, on a bike, you better have eyes in the back of your head! >>



Actually I have known some that smell like fires and burgers, they say chinese food grease is the best though, it's cleaner and they change it more often.

I dunno about the scooter, motorcycle's in general are very effecient, great millege even on the big fast one's, but there is some danger. The VW is wonderfull around town, fill up once every three weeks usually, takes allot of in town driving to get 600 miles...

 

[sitka]

right on Ramses, I also had a '78 rabbit diesel. ~ 400,000 miles. That car was incredible.

 

[sandorski]

SUVs are the *most* dangerous vehicles on the road! Sure, the morons driving them are safe in a collision, but most of the time the other schmuck gets killed. The death rate from SUV rollovers is very high as well.

 

[shortalias]

<We Are In Danger Of Losing the Cars We Love!>

How about : We Are Ruining This Planet Because Of The Cars We Love!!

 

[Ultima]

<< "There's PLENTY of spare used cooking oil in the world, think of all the fast food places around..."

So, when you burn that for fuel, does your exhaust smell like McDonald's fries?

I've been kicking around getting some kind of "Scooter" to run short errands. I live adjacent to a mall with about 70 stores, yet I hop in my car to fetch stuff rather than walk. A bicycle might be OK too. A scooter would be perfect, except for one thing... that safety issue. I've got a wife and kids and I've known too many people who were killed on bikes. I doubt a scooter would fair any better. Around here, on a bike, you better have eyes in the back of your head! >>



hmm,
ironically, bikes are statistically safer than cars. Unless you try going on a freeway with one

 

[Ornery]

"...ironically, bikes are statistically safer than cars."

If you're talking about motorcycles you're out of your mind! I personally know of three guys killed on bikes. Three people I knew! Damn! You know how many people I've known that were killed in cars? One! And the ratio of bikers to drivers is about 100 to 1. We only have a 4 month cycle season to boot!

Oh, and kudos to the people smart enough to drive SUVs instead of econo death traps. I for one refuse to get sucked into the FWD, unibody, 4 cylinder, cramped, buzz boxes that everyone else seems to be so enamored of.

 

[MadRat]

If the SUV saves the passenger but kills the load of soccer kids in the subcompact stationwagon, whats so great about the SUV's heavier design? The SUV endangers the rest of the drivers on the road, plus the average SUV driver seems to have severe blindspots in the their field of vision that cause alot of near accidents. Luckily the rest of us are getting adept to recognizing the overtly-tall-truckwannabe-wagons-o'-danger before we get struck by their ignorant drivers...

 

[SuperTool]

Funny story about SUV's. I was driving behind a ford explorer the other day on the freeway, and they had a one of those ceiling TV screens for the kids, so I was tailgating them for like 30 minutes on the freeway watching their movie. Anyways, the lady driving it prolly thought I was stalking her or something, cus she started freaking out and hitting the breaks. It was hillarious.

 

[Ramses]

<< "...ironically, bikes are statistically safer than cars."

If you're talking about motorcycles you're out of your mind! I personally know of three guys killed on bikes. Three people I knew! Damn! You know how many people I've known that were killed in cars? One! And the ratio of bikers to drivers is about 100 to 1. We only have a 4 month cycle season to boot!

Oh, and kudos to the people smart enough to drive SUVs instead of econo death traps. I for one refuse to get sucked into the FWD, unibody, 4 cylinder, cramped, buzz boxes that everyone else seems to be so enamored of. >>



~laughter~
I had a misshap with an 86 Jetta, between the large truck and the fire hydrent I didnt do so well. Three days later I was driving my 78 Lincoln again, drove that till I felt a little more secure. Back to the VW pickup now, hopefully I'll survive the next little "reminder" and get back to a real car again.

It helps that I drive at night almost exclusivly other than putting around town, less chance to get creamed.

 

[SuperTool]

<< "...ironically, bikes are statistically safer than cars."

If you're talking about motorcycles you're out of your mind! I personally know of three guys killed on bikes. Three people I knew! Damn! You know how many people I've known that were killed in cars? One! And the ratio of bikers to drivers is about 100 to 1. We only have a 4 month cycle season to boot!

Oh, and kudos to the people smart enough to drive SUVs instead of econo death traps. I for one refuse to get sucked into the FWD, unibody, 4 cylinder, cramped, buzz boxes that everyone else seems to be so enamored of. >>



2 suburbans head on at 20 Mph each
vs 2 camrys head on at 20 Mph each
which one would you rather be in?
SUV's are only safe at expense of other drivers. SUV on SUV or SUV to immovable object collisions are not as safe as comparable sedans.
Cars are designed from ground up around the driver for safety. Suv's are designed from ground up to haul stuff, with driver compartment bolted onto the platform.

 

[Goldfish]

<< 1. Most SUV's are American made and produce much of U.S. car companies' profits >>


WORST. ARUGMENT. EVER.

 

[Ornery]

Damn SuperTool, your reading comprehension must be in the super toilet! I'll just post one link at a time, so you can digest it all easier:

• "...Fatal crashes between two cars caused 4,013 deaths, while LTV-LTV crashes resulted in far fewer fatalities: 1,225. Even if we correct for the difference in the numbers of each type of vehicle on the road, it seems obvious that if everyone drove an LTV, far fewer bodies would be hauled off the nation?s highways every year..."
  
  When Heavy Meets Light By Irwin Stelzer, AEI

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

<< hmm,
ironically, bikes are statistically safer than cars. Unless you try going on a freeway with one >>


Wow, you must be kidding. Ornery hit he mark spot on. Did you know 90% of all motorcyclists that get in an accident will suffer injury? Compared to 33% for automobile accidents.

Please repeat your statement out loud to yourself, and you'll see the obsurdity.

That said, I love taking my Ninja out, but I sure as hell won't convince myself into thinking I'm safe - even for a moment.

 

[Ornery]

"WORST. ARUGMENT. EVER."

Nice spelling lug nut!

SUVs are one of the few alternatives to econoboxes that American consumers have. They're very profitable to OUR manufacturers. With our economy in its current state, that's a pretty damn desirable effect, no?

 

[MadRat]

<<With our economy in its current state, that's a pretty damn desirable effect, no?>>

Granted I am a Republican, but do not subscribe to G.W.'s "our economy is more important than anything else" mentality. The economy is in this current state because of free spending and unaccountable leadership at the reigns of the money trails.

 

[MustangSVT]

<< Thanks for deciding for the rest of us how we should live our lives, and what we should buy with our own money. The rest of us truly appreciate you taking your time to share your wisdom, and protect us from actually having to use our own intelligence to make our own decisions about such things. Life is so much easier with folks like you around, who are so much smarter than the rest of us, and so willing to help us figure out what sort of lifestyle we should live.

I'm sorry but PrinceofWands is right. There are other people that live on this planet besides you. This "me, me, me" BS really makes me sick. Sometimes sacrafices need to be made for the common good, and not being able to drive a SUV when all you do is go to the mall and run the kids around is a small one to make. >>




yeah makes "YOU" sick huh?

 

[LAUST]

looks like pure BS to me just from 2 sentances

 

[Ornery]

"The economy is in this current state because of free spending and unaccountable leadership at the reigns of the money trails."

Our economy is in the hands of consumers, large and small. Free spending would be VERY welcome right about now! And I'd bet a dollar to a donut there are quite a few countries around the world that would be happy to trade fuel economy for an economic kick in the ass!

 

[KokomoGST]

Instead of being idiotic and stating 35mpg they should have an absolute minimum... like no friggin 8mpg SUVs...
even 15mpg minimums would force a lot of R&D. You can make up some incentives for those manufacturers that sell 30+mpg cars and fine them for having less than 20mpg cars. You can slowly adjust those numbers as technology improves. Of course, this would absolutely kill some companies (*GM*cough*cough*) but it would allow specialty makers like BMW who don't make superhigh mpg cars to continue to improve at their own rate.

Mebbe we can even be free of the burden of foreign oil! :Q