We are the 53%!

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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Stupidity now has a posterboy... which one of those cry babies holding up signs is the OP?

Here's my 53% story: Work 1 job because that's all you need when it's direct patient care, went back to college 2 times after getting first degree, paid off all loans, own house outright, work 40 hours a week in a hospital er, have zero CC debt, realize that not all people out of work are fucking lazy and want to be poor and fear losing their homes, don't feel I'm fucking special and need to write it up, take a photo, and upload it to the Net to show how endangered my species is.

FT53%
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Considering almost 70% of Americans want to raise taxes on the wealthy, there IS NO '53%'

Another fail spidey thread.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
I'm at occupy Indy right now. Pretty pathetic. About 100 dirty hippies chanting phrases that make little sense. A lote while ago their 'leadership' said "dont break the law, but if you want to, that's cool too"

This is pretty funny.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
By your own logic, there is no 99% either.

Well played.

By my logic, there is a much bigger share of the country that belongs to the '99%' than does the '53%', both on an nominally and in REALITY. The overwhelming majority knows the rich have the country by the balls and they want to tax them more than we already do. That is a FACT.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,902
2
76
By my logic, there is a much bigger share of the country that belongs to the '99%' than does the '53%', both on an nominally and in REALITY. The overwhelming majority knows the rich have the country by the balls and they want to tax them more than we already do. That is a FACT.

The rich always will and always have had everybody's balls. That's why they play so much golf.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
By my logic, there is a much bigger share of the country that belongs to the '99%' than does the '53%', both on an nominally and in REALITY. The overwhelming majority knows the rich have the country by the balls and they want to tax them more than we already do. That is a FACT.

Fact. Bears eat beets.

Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galatica.

And according to a Gallup poll 35% of Americans are stupid.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,446
9,351
136
The rich always will and always have had everybody's balls. That's why they play so much golf.

Thats why every now and again the poor rise up and chop off their heads.

It gives a clean slate for it all to start again.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
BTW, those "53%" are a bunch of losers working shitty jobs who are angry at the people working even shittier jobs or unable to find work.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
If you look at the demands of the core occupy people then you will see that they are certainly anti-capitalist.

At the core are a group of people who want the rewards of living in a free capitalist society, but don't want the risks.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, again.

First off, lets quote someone who fancies to know something about this issue:
The group does not have an official list of demands and apparently does not even want to come up with a list. They seem to think that protesting just to protest is better than coming up with a list of demands that people can look at and respond too.

But let's pretend we didn't hear this, and look at the working list of demands that you posted:
I started a whole thread about their demands.

Eliminating debt is the equivalent of getting something for free because they want all the stuff they have borrowed for to be given to them.

And was only brought up by one person as far as I know. I agree this is anti-capitalism, but so is bailing out endangered companies, which is akin for forgiving corporate debt. Are both major political parties anti capitalism?

"Living wage for everyone" is also getting something for free. Most of us earn what we are worth, but they want everyone to be paid $20 an hour regardless of the job because in their world it is 'fair.'

There is already a minimum wage in the US. I don't believe it should be raised to $20/hour, but if you think a minimum wage is anti capitalism then I guess the US has been anti capitalism for years.

Free education.
There is already free education in the US, though organized at the local level. How long has public education existed for? Is public education anti capitalism? This is an INCREMENTAL change (though still major in terms of cost). It just extends the length of time and specialization of public education.

Universal single payer healthcare system aka free healthcare.
Medicare is nearly this already, and many capitalist first world countries already employ it in its fullest. This has nothing to do with capitalism, unless the government itself owns the hospitals etc.

The movement is populated by a bunch of losers who can't succeed on their own so they want government to hand them success.

None of the above actually hand a person success. There are countries in the world that employ all of those things (short of the debt elimination which I agree is stupid), and manage to have winners and losers. Calling these demands anti capitalism is nearly akin to saying that capitalism doesn't exist anywhere.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,961
140
106
time to TAX the UNIONS. Unions are like corporations now. They have executive management, they have boards of directors, they have shareholders in the form of members, and they have employees in the form of staff. We hear all this talk about paying your fair share. We hear all this talk about raising revenue to pay for jobs. So why is it that large, wealthy, cash-rich organizations are exempt from paying the federal corporate income tax? We all know that unions now a days are nothing more then money laundering fronts fro the DNC. Tax the unions.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
time to TAX the UNIONS. Unions are like corporations now. They have executive management, they have boards of directors, they have shareholders in the form of members, and they have employees in the form of staff. We hear all this talk about paying your fair share. We hear all this talk about raising revenue to pay for jobs. So why is it that large, wealthy, cash-rich organizations are exempt from paying the federal corporate income tax? We all know that unions now a days are nothing more then money laundering fronts fro the DNC. Tax the unions.

Wages for employees, staff, directors etc are tax deductible, even for corporations. How about you inform yourself on the basics before proposing policy?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
BTW, those "53%" are a bunch of losers working shitty jobs who are angry at the people working even shittier jobs or unable to find work.

You're really proving my point:

How telling is it that people like you look down on this guy for having a job that you feel is beneath you, meanwhile you glorify and exalt the people occupying wall street with no jobs at all who would rather bitch and moan than work?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
And was only brought up by one person as far as I know. I agree this is anti-capitalism, but so is bailing out endangered companies, which is akin for forgiving corporate debt. Are both major political parties anti capitalism?
I think the protesters make too much out of the bailouts. TARP was very cheap compared to the reward as was the automotive bailouts.

What is really ironic is that the UAW, which was saved by bailouts, is now joining the occupy movement. This is specially ironic when you realize that the auto bailout cost more than the bank bailout that they are protesting.
There is already a minimum wage in the US. I don't believe it should be raised to $20/hour, but if you think a minimum wage is anti capitalism then I guess the US has been anti capitalism for years.
There are a lot of people who don't like the minimum wage and claim it hurt low skilled workers, especially high schoolers.

And it is anti-capitalist since capitalism is based on the notion that you get/pay/earn what ever you are worth and not what society thinks you should be worth.
There is already free education in the US, though organized at the local level. How long has public education existed for? Is public education anti capitalism? This is an INCREMENTAL change (though still major in terms of cost). It just extends the length of time and specialization of public education.
I was talking about free college which is one of their demands
Medicare is nearly this already, and many capitalist first world countries already employ it in its fullest. This has nothing to do with capitalism, unless the government itself owns the hospitals etc.
Medicare is not universal as it is only available for certain people.
Medicare is not capitalism either, it is socialism and many of the countries with UHC are quasi-socialist states or socialism light or European socialism aka highly regulated economies.
None of the above actually hand a person success. There are countries in the world that employ all of those things (short of the debt elimination which I agree is stupid), and manage to have winners and losers. Calling these demands anti capitalism is nearly akin to saying that capitalism doesn't exist anywhere.
Technically there are no countries in the world that have true capitalism.

Instead we all have modified forms of capitalism. In Europe you have a free market economy that is highly taxed and used by the governments to provide socialism like benefits such as free healthcare and extensive welfare benefits. The US economy is similar, except we have less taxes and less benefits.

Taxes are like an anchor around the waist of the economy. The higher the taxes the more it hurts the economy which is why Europe with its much higher taxation has a much lower standard of living than that the US. Which is also why the US has the second highest median income in the world, despite all our illegal immigration and our vast size. The median income of the worlds 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th largest economies are only two thirds our median income, which equates to a HUGE difference in stand of living. (China is 2nd)

So what you say about other economies having all the things the protesters demand (UHC, free or cheap colleges etc etc) but they pay for these things by having a much lower standard of living.

That is probably the biggest failure of the occupy types. They want a socialistic system because they think it will result in a more even distribution of incomes, which it will, but they fail to understand that it will also result in a much lower level of income as well.
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Wages for employees, staff, directors etc are tax deductible, even for corporations. How about you inform yourself on the basics before proposing policy?

Thanks for quoting him, sometimes I need reminding why he's ignored.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
I think the protesters make too much out of the bailouts. TARP was very cheap compared to the reward as was the automotive bailouts.

What is really ironic is that the UAW, which was saved by bailouts, is now joining the occupy movement. This is specially ironic when you realize that the auto bailout cost more than the bank bailout that they are protesting.

So does it make sense for me to say you're anti capitalism because you support TARP (I'm assuming from your comment you do, I apologize if I don't.)

The bottom line is, based on your assertions it shouldn't matter whether the benefits outweight the cost. These people think the benefit to society of these things is greater than the cost. You may not agree, in which case state THAT. Don't state something else completely unrelated just for the purpose of slandering them.

There are a lot of people who don't like the minimum wage and claim it hurt low skilled workers, especially high schoolers.

And it is anti-capitalist since capitalism is based on the notion that you get/pay/earn what ever you are worth and not what society thinks you should be worth.

So do you go around calling any politician that isn't against the minimum wage anti capitalist? And by the way, minimum wage has NOTHING to do with capitalism. It has to do with free markets, a completely separate thing.

I was talking about free college which is one of their demands

I know what you were talking about. Are you going to say there some difference on the capitalist (or the free market) standpoint between public elementary school, public secondary school, and public post secondary school? It's still society paying to educate its citizens. Again, if you think that level of society support is to great state THAT. Don't state something completely unrelated.

Medicare is not universal as it is only available for certain people.
Medicare is not capitalism either, it is socialism and many of the countries with UHC are quasi-socialist states or socialism light or European socialism aka highly regulated economies.

And it's still less socialist than public elementary school, in which the government owns the entire process.

Technically there are no countries in the world that have true capitalism.

Instead we all have modified forms of capitalism. In Europe you have a free market economy that is highly taxed and used by the governments to provide socialism like benefits such as free healthcare and extensive welfare benefits. The US economy is similar, except we have less taxes and less benefits.

Taxes are like an anchor around the waist of the economy. The higher the taxes the more it hurts the economy which is why Europe with its much higher taxation has a much lower standard of living than that the US. Which is also why the US has the second highest median income in the world, despite all our illegal immigration and our vast size. The median income of the worlds 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th largest economies are only two thirds our median income, which equates to a HUGE difference in stand of living. (China is 2nd)

While I don't agree with a lot of this (there was another thread where I showed that US spending per capita from all sources in many states was higher than Canada, and I know you ascribe to 'spending is a tax, regardless if it's collected up front'), this is at least a reasonable argument. It's a far cry from "You're ANTI CAPITALIST" as if that means something, considering that would make nearly every American politician anti capitalist in some way (since the US isn't true capitalism, as you specified above).

So what you say about other economies having all the things the protesters demand (UHC, free or cheap colleges etc etc) but they pay for these things by having a much lower standard of living.

That is probably the biggest failure of the occupy types. They want a socialistic system because they think it will result in a more even distribution of incomes, which it will, but they fail to understand that it will also result in a much lower level of income as well.

This is again at least a reasonable attempt at a real argument. Had you contributed this, I would have disagreed, but at least this isn't contributing to a knee jerk partisan shouting match. (I have to leave for thanksgiving dinner, but will type a response to this later.)
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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And we demand the liberal scum pay their fair share. Rise up working, tax paying Americans and beat back the leeches!

What the shortsighted members of your 53% don't realize is that your 53% is going to become poorer and poorer and that your working conditions are going to get worse and worse and that your income/job security that allows you to be part of the 53% is evaporating.

Welcome to the 95%.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
They love Steve Jobs for everything he created and what those creations have done for them, but they hate the system that allowed Jobs to be successful in the first place.

I suspect that they recognize that Steve Jobs was actually an innovator and that he earned much of his money. In contrast, they probably regard the Wall Street bankers as thieves who haven't contributed anything of value to society in exchange for their wealth.

(It's really not that hard to figure out.)
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
They are the useful idiots, tools of the marxist. While the 53% are the working, tax paying, real Americans paying for the hippie bums.

What you Tea Party morons who aren't part of the top 5% don't realize is that you guys are the useful idiots. The Republican and Tea Party base probably has no idea just how much contempt the top 5% has for them.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
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If you look at the demands of the core occupy people then you will see that they are certainly anti-capitalist.

At the core are a group of people who want the rewards of living in a free capitalist society, but don't want the risks.

They fail to understand that capitalism provides the most wealth for everyone compared to any other system, but as a by product some people will be richer than others. But at the same time the poor in a capitalist society are better off than the poor in any other economic system.

I suspect that most of them don't have a problem with the notion that people should receive compensation for what they've actually earned. The problem is that many people in the top 1-5% are receiving more compensation than they have actually earned whereas many people in the lower echelons are getting paid less than they deserve.

You are wrong to take it as an article of faith that the market function ideally. It does not nor is it perfect.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The people contributing to that blog are definitely useful idiots for the top 5%. It's just a group of Tea Party Tards.
 
Aug 23, 2000
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Says someone with a sad mac as their current avatar.

Did he say he was a protestor? no. He pointed out the hypocrisy of the protestors. They aren't protesting for anything other than they have sad lives and nothing else to do. I would wager large sums of money that the majority of these protestors are the same people that go out and buy iProducts the second they are available. They want attention, nothing more.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
What you Tea Party morons who aren't part of the top 5% don't realize is that you guys are the useful idiots. The Republican and Tea Party base probably has no idea just how much contempt the top 5% has for them.

Actually I am in the top 5% of earners and work damn hard for it.

Moving the goal posts are we? Like Obama likes to move the goal posts on who is "rich"? See you in November. Tea Party who gave historic elections of 2010 vs. communist movement that is despised by an overwhelming majority of Americans especially the actual people working?

See you in November commie, see you there.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
What you Tea Party morons who aren't part of the top 5% don't realize is that you guys are the useful idiots. The Republican and Tea Party base probably has no idea just how much contempt the top 5% has for them.

IIRC Spidey's household is in the top 5%...

Edit: He beat me to it.
 
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