We Have Reached The Limit Of Our Technology

[Kommander_Kink]

I just read we have almost reached the physical reach of our technology, there's a reason why our PC chips don't go higher than 4 ghz processing power, its because you can't cram more layers into them without going bigger in size. Its the same reason why we will never reach near-light speeds, there is no material strong enough to prevent that spaceship from disentigrating from the particle bombardment at that speed.

Discuss your views.

 

[Murloc]

I think that's bullshit.
Where did you get that 4 ghz figure from?

I guess the phyisical limit in chips is when you can't go smaller because of the size of atoms.

technology is a broad term.
CPUs are one thing, near-light speed impacts is another.
Technology includes lots of other stuff too, and that stuff is getting improved a lot all the time.
Processors are becoming better and dies are getting shrunk all the time. We haven't even reached the limit of silicon yet, maybe in a few years but not now.

 

[Evadman]

I just read we have almost reached the physical reach of our technology, there's a reason why our PC chips don't go higher than 4 ghz processing power, its because you can't cram more layers into them without going bigger in size. Its the same reason why we will never reach near-light speeds, there is no material strong enough to prevent that spaceship from disentigrating from the particle bombardment at that speed.

Discuss your views.

Huh? I would think the limit on clock speed of a cpu using current technology is limited by the speed of an electron across the width of the die. If the CPU tries running faster than that, the CPU will have issues with clock skew, where one part of the CPU is running on a different clock cycle than another part.

/I am not pm, so take this with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Kommander_Kink]

Okay let me put it this way, the materials available to us will limit us in going further with our technology very soon, such as in the case of a chip, how much faster can we make it before its small size limits it?

Give engineers cartons and tell them to build you a working motorcycle out of it, they can't, the same will apply to humans in, say, 100 years from now.

 

[Evadman]

how much faster can we make it before its small size limits it?

the center for quantom computing (IIRC, may have been someone else) figured out how to turn 7 atoms into a transistor. Another team built a 30 something atom molicule that acts like 14 transisiters (2 atom net per logic gate) The 8 core Nehalem has something like 2.3 billion transistors. There is 10^22 silicon atoms in a cubic millimeter. So assuming 1mm thick and 500mm square, that means with currently known technology, it is possible to fit about 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 transistors on a cpu die. Assuming moore's law of doubling transistor count every year, we have approximately 36 years before a different solution will need to be found. It also means a current cpu can be shrunk from a 500 sq/mm to smaller than a pinhead.

Give engineers cartons and tell them to build you a working motorcycle out of it, they can't

You mean like cardboard? How long does it have to work? I think it would be possible to make a small diesel engine out of cardboard that may get a stroke or two before self destructing.

 

[Kommander_Kink]

You mean like cardboard? How long does it have to work? I think it would be possible to make a small diesel engine out of cardboard that may get a stroke or two before self destructing.

Seriously? So if we upgrade the cartons to extra-strength plastic we can make a plastic combustion engine?

 

[uclabachelor]

I just read we have almost reached the physical reach of our technology, there's a reason why our PC chips don't go higher than 4 ghz processing power, its because you can't cram more layers into them without going bigger in size. Its the same reason why we will never reach near-light speeds, there is no material strong enough to prevent that spaceship from disentigrating from the particle bombardment at that speed.

Discuss your views.

Fine, I'll be the one to say it. You need to read up more on technology.

They already have non-silicon based transistors that run at hundreds of gigahertz, particularly graphene transistors.

It's only a matter of time before they figure out how to cheaply mass produce circuits that utilizes non-silicon based transistors.

Also, the reason why we will never travel at the speed of light is because as you approach the speed of light, your mass increases to infinity, requiring infinite power to accelerate.

 

[Paul98]

There are lots more technologies coming along that will allow us to get much faster chips. Do a search for new chip technology some of the new stuff that people are working on are insane and once in production will blow away what we are using right now.

As for the speed of light, no matter how fast you move with respect to some other object in the frame of reference of the spaceship if you aren't accelerating your speed is 0. Light will move away from you at the speed of light.

 

[Evadman]

Seriously? So if we upgrade the cartons to extra-strength plastic we can make a plastic combustion engine?

Yes, all the major parts can be made out of a pastic, resin, and/or fiber composite. US Patents 4930470 (block), 5842342 (piston), 6363902 (valves) are already out there, and cover the major parts. As uclabachelor stated, it's time for you to bone up on your tech journals.

 

[PsiStar]

The limits to PCs are dictated by economics. This translates to keeping motherboards cheap. A m/b good for working at 4 or 5 GHz is vastly less expensive than one that runs at 20 GHz much less 50 GHz. Yes, PCBs that handle digital bandwidths of 50 GHz do exist ... but why bother since the typical pedestrian (all of the Dawn Smiths) on the street rarely uses more than what is in their cell phone much less their PC? The economics just are not there to push the ceiling.

 

[Kommander_Kink]

@ PsiStar: Did you just seriously said that we dont really need faster cellphone data transfer rates than what we have now!?

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

 

[TecHNooB]

@ PsiStar: Did you just seriously said that we dont really need faster cellphone data transfer rates than what we have now!?

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

*popcorn/lawnchair*

 

[CycloWizard]

@ PsiStar: Did you just seriously said that we dont really need faster cellphone data transfer rates than what we have now!?

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

Yes we do. We also have printers that can print 3D scaffolds for tissue engineering, artificial heart valves, and lots of other fun stuff. How much do you want to pay for a fast color printer? Someone will build one for you that prints 10 portraits per second if the price is right. Just because you can't buy it for $50 yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ignorance of technology does not mean the technology doesn't exist.

 

[PsiStar]

Actually, I said that the technology exists ... just send money ... :biggrin:

 

[RavenSEAL]

What makes you think CPUs won't go higher than 4GHz? They already sorta do...even my 2 yr old E8500 can hit 4GHz stable.

 

[schenley101]

so we engineers should just give up now, we can't create new and/or improved stuff? I guess I'll have to prepare for very early retirement.....

 

[IGemini]

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

Yes we do. We also have printers that can print 3D scaffolds for tissue engineering, artificial heart valves, and lots of other fun stuff. How much do you want to pay for a fast color printer? Someone will build one for you that prints 10 portraits per second if the price is right. Just because you can't buy it for $50 yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ignorance of technology does not mean the technology doesn't exist.

And to add, I've used a scanner that did scanning and OCR of one page per second, at least four years ago. It does exist.

 

[Ben90]

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

Guy has to be trolling

 

[frostedflakes]

There are lots more technologies coming along that will allow us to get much faster chips. Do a search for new chip technology some of the new stuff that people are working on are insane and once in production will blow away what we are using right now.

As for the speed of light, no matter how fast you move with respect to some other object in the frame of reference of the spaceship if you aren't accelerating your speed is 0. Light will move away from you at the speed of light.

This, there are tons of materials and processes being researched that can potentially replace silicon. Just because we're approaching the limit of silicon doesn't mean we've reached the limit of computation.

For example, computers used to be based on mechanical relays. Then as we approached the limits of this technology, vacuum tubes appeared on the scene and allowed for previously unthinkable performance. Then discrete transistors were used for a while, but were soon replaced by silicon-based integrated circuits. And Si integrated circuits have allowed us to keep scaling performance for the last half a century or so. I have no idea what will eventually replace it, but I'm confident that as we approach the limits of silicon, some new material or method will replace it for computing. Fortunately the scientists and engineers working on these up and coming technologies don't succumb to defeat as easily as you OP.

Also, with respect to faster than light travel, Google Alcubierre drive (similar to warp drive in Star Trek). You create a bubble around a craft and then warp the space around this bubble to move and theoretically allow for FTL travel. And the neat thing is that since the space inside the bubble is stationary relative to the craft, there are no relativistic effects, no acceleration forces, etc. I mean it's all theoretical, warping space is obviously far, far beyond our current capabilities assuming it's even possible, and some physicists believe that there isn't even enough energy in the universe to do it if this were possible. But just goes to show that stuff like FTL travel may not necessarily be impossible. IMO it's kind of silly to say anything is impossible, because there's still so much we don't know about the universe, there are probably tons of creative solutions to problems that we don't have the scientific knowledge to see yet.

 

[uclabachelor]

@ PsiStar: Did you just seriously said that we dont really need faster cellphone data transfer rates than what we have now!?

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

You're either a troll or just dense. This thread should be locked by now.

 

[Ninjahedge]

@ PsiStar: Did you just seriously said that we dont really need faster cellphone data transfer rates than what we have now!?

Also you guys talk as of we are riding a wave of advanced technology, let me remind you that we dont even have the technology to produce a printer that can print a color portrait every second, or a scanner that can scan a newspaper page in 1 second.... Pathetic really!

HOOOOOGAN!


That out of the way, here's the short and curlies.

Technology is not a one-source deal KK. You are right in saying that we may reach a limit in what our current material science can provide in the realm of improving our technology, but at the same time, Vaccume tubes were not the last form of electronic components in our society. We "found" silicon semiconductors and the punch-card got replaced by the silicon wafer.

Although we may not be able to get atomic circuitboards to work simply because of the proximity of the components in such high density producing almost atomic scale interactions that are not a problem in our microscopic scale technological instruments, I do not see things really slowing up yet.

At least, not because of materials.

The main slow-up is like what was said. Although you want a 1 second printout, it is not an ECONOMICAL solution. Who NEEDS that now? Who NEEDS a full video, HD, to be transmitted in 10 seconds? We are not talking about Modem days where a 12 MEG map would take 20 minutes to load (UT99!!), but still, we are at the point where we can stream what we want, at the rate we need it, without many problems (Netflix as an example). There are very few things that we REALLY need to stream on our phones, or even at our homes, that need more than that right now.

You also give the example of the cardboard motorcycle, which is a good example, but not in the way you intended. Our scientists and engineers are given a bunch of cardboard to work with. They know that material won't do it, so they look for a way to get or produce another. They put carbon in their iron for steel. They put chrome in that steel to make it stainless, they find out how different materials work and act and start assembling the basics.

The steel rod becomes the alumninum tube becomes the truss frame that holds the polimer wing that allows them to fly.

You stay with cardboard and you get a really neat fort.

 

[Gibsons]

You stay with cardboard and you get a really neat fort.

You can do much better than a fort.

 

[alkemyst]

OP wait until you get to high school before delving into advanced physics.

 

[datalink7]

OP wait until you get to high school before delving into advanced physics.

He should probably just avoid the topic all together. Some people have the propensity towards learning certain subjects. I don't think the OP is one of those in matters of physics.

 

[TuxDave]

I just read we have almost reached the physical reach of our technology, there's a reason why our PC chips don't go higher than 4 ghz processing power, its because you can't cram more layers into them without going bigger in size. Its the same reason why we will never reach near-light speeds, there is no material strong enough to prevent that spaceship from disentigrating from the particle bombardment at that speed.

Discuss your views.

4GHz is easy non-overclocked..... if you feel like paying a lot of $$$ for it.